Massaging my boss

[Thursday]

1. Document it.
2. Explain your discomfort with it
3. If he persists, submit documentation to the proper authorities
4. Buy your boyfriend a snowcone and take a walk in the park(after sueing him)

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Agreed, I shouldn't put myself in that situation. Simply not worth all of the possible repercussions.

So what is the consensus on still working for him but without any of the massage stuff?

This is what I would do in your situation.

1) Refuse to do any more massages, but agree to do normal work like filing or whatever.

2) When you're not at work look for another job. He's either going to find a way to let you go or try to take advantage of you again. You want to get out of this job, but I understand if you need the money until you can find another one.

3) Trying to take legal action should be a last resort, and only if he does things which are much more overt than he's done. Legal action will only drain your money and in no way guarantees justice. It can create far bigger problems than this guy has given you already. You'll get much farther in life just using your head and avoiding bad situations before they happen. Just my $.02.

 

[INTJMom]

Well, I'm not sure what to make of my situation.

I was recently hired as a personal assistant after over a year of unsuccessfully searching for a job.

My boss mentioned from the very beginning that he's had various leg injuries so he's been receiving massages 7 years now from the assistants he's had. He presented the massaging portion of the job as an option, though, the main duties being filing, light cleaning, and general organizing. So I said yes to that portion of the job, eager to secure the job (and seeing no real problem with it).

So up until recently we'd only communicated with each other through email and over the phone. Today we met in person as a sort of interview to ensure that we were certain we wanted to work together. We met at Starbucks and then went on to the room he rents, in which he has his office. Anyways, I agreed to the massaging and we went through with it. He was very nice about it and kept making sure I was comfortable with it.

But it wasn't until today that I realized it was a full body massage... which is customarily done in the nude. And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

Well, I like to think of myself as quite open-minded. But for some reason I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. I had thoughts of: 'What is my boyfriend going to think', 'or my friends', 'Is this wrong', 'is it my prudish upbringing'.. etc.

So I really don't know how I feel about it. It just seems so foreign and potentially taboo that it's confusing me. I think there's nothing wrong with it in theory, so I don't know what the problem is.

Maybe I'm just too concerned with how others would view it. Even though I don't believe that should necessarily be a determining factor.

Anyways, thoughts? reprimands? Perspective please?

He made you touch him while he was naked?!
I'm not surprised you feel uncomfortable!

I think one of the reasons it felt taboo is because generally, we don't touch other people's skin, except for shaking hands.
You're not trained as a massage therapist, so you usually have no reason to touch other people.

What DOES your boyfriend think?

You INFPs are too accommodating.
You don't have to violate your sense of decency in order to keep a job.
He can pay a professional $50 for a 30 minute massage.

 

[INTJMom]

If you want an easy way out you could tell him your boyfriend found out about the massages (smelled massage-oil on you or something) and despite your assurances that it was all non-sexual etc etc got really jealous. So to placate him you'd like to be excused from massage-duties if it's ok etc etc.

Excellent suggestion.

 

[Tallulah]

I'm surprised he hasn't been sued yet. Or he is very savvy at picking employees that would be ok with it, much like a predator.

I would highly suggest running a background check on him. Intelius has pretty cheap services. Also just google his name and look on social networking sites. He sounds like a creep to me.

Exactly what I thought. If this were really about physical therapy, he would hire a massage therapist. The fact that the OP has spent so much time examining her own beliefs and trying to make it okay, trying to determine whether it just makes her a prude if she says no, etc., means he picked well. That's exactly the kind of reaction that allows him to keep doing this. (I'm not saying the OP would let it go further than that.)

That's how my massage went when a massage therapist was paid to do it. I really don't know the legality on it but I'm sure the people in this thread don't either and are making an awful lot of comments about how terrible he is.

There is a world of difference between hiring a professional massage therapist who is licensed and trained, and asking your pretty, 20-something assistant to rub you down. Most of the female massage therapists I know are very wary of going to a man's apartment or office if there is no one else around, though. Just fwiw.

Because of the way he proposed this to you. He said it was just leg rubs (already boundary crossing imo) then it turned into a full body nude massage. It is dishonest and disingenious. And this is when you're first getting to know someone. There are some things that I do take at face value and I'm not going to question myself over it, I know who I am but I don't know them. Get what I mean?

And just by the act of asking you would be too much for me. To me, it says this person is not normal. He has no respect for boundaries. I would also question his mental health. I would be permanently uncomfortable around him.

Also if you were my daughter asking me this -- I would question your awareness. What is the next ridiculous request? And what will she do then? If she has to ask advice for a situation that makes her feel uncomfortable and should she continue doing it -- I would have serious reservations about her continuing to work in that environment.

Tiltyred's experience is a lot different reading, it shows how things were handled in a healthy manner for everyone involved. There's no secrecy, no hiding it. Its a fairly comfortable situation for everyone.

Indeed. The OP really needs to realize that it's okay to say no, and it's okay for this jerkwad to think you're a prude. Tell him that you've thought about it, and that the massage thing is too personal for you, and that it makes you uncomfortable. And if you can't do that, it's a sign you do not need to work for this man at all. What if he asked you to get a drink with him after work? Have dinner? Go back to his place? You may have good intentions, but if you keep telling yourself that he's coming from an innocent place and means nothing by it, you may find yourself in a dangerous situation that you've unwittingly consented to.

 

[Udog]

This is likely a bridge that has a strong chance to transitioning to something more overtly sexual. Once he gets you starting to say 'yes' to something you are uncomfortable doing, it will be much easier for him to push the line farther and farther.

 

[01011010]

This is likely a bridge that has a strong chance to transitioning to something more overtly sexual. Once he gets you starting to say 'yes' to something you are uncomfortable doing, it will be much easier for him to push the line farther and farther.

Isn't that what pedos do to little kids? Like conditioning or some term I can't remember. That seems extremely predatory and gross.

 

[Ivy]

Grooming, and yes it does.

 

[Synarch]

Well, I'm not sure what to make of my situation.

I was recently hired as a personal assistant after over a year of unsuccessfully searching for a job.

My boss mentioned from the very beginning that he's had various leg injuries so he's been receiving massages 7 years now from the assistants he's had. He presented the massaging portion of the job as an option, though, the main duties being filing, light cleaning, and general organizing. So I said yes to that portion of the job, eager to secure the job (and seeing no real problem with it).

So up until recently we'd only communicated with each other through email and over the phone. Today we met in person as a sort of interview to ensure that we were certain we wanted to work together. We met at Starbucks and then went on to the room he rents, in which he has his office. Anyways, I agreed to the massaging and we went through with it. He was very nice about it and kept making sure I was comfortable with it.

But it wasn't until today that I realized it was a full body massage... which is customarily done in the nude. And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

Well, I like to think of myself as quite open-minded. But for some reason I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. I had thoughts of: 'What is my boyfriend going to think', 'or my friends', 'Is this wrong', 'is it my prudish upbringing'.. etc.

So I really don't know how I feel about it. It just seems so foreign and potentially taboo that it's confusing me. I think there's nothing wrong with it in theory, so I don't know what the problem is.

Maybe I'm just too concerned with how others would view it. Even though I don't believe that should necessarily be a determining factor.

Anyways, thoughts? reprimands? Perspective please?

No fucking way!

 

[Kasper]

I'm surprised he hasn't been sued yet. Or he is very savvy at picking employees that would be ok with it, much like a predator.

Ding, ding, ding!

I think people like this have a spidey sense about who is susceptible to their advances. Even the fact that you say he prefers untrained masseuses so he can show them rather than getting a professional who is being paid to customize their massages towards to the client sounds fishy to me.

This is likely a bridge that has a strong chance to transitioning to something more overtly sexual. Once he gets you starting to say 'yes' to something you are uncomfortable doing, it will be much easier for him to push the line farther and farther.

^ That.

If you want an easy way out you could tell him your boyfriend found out about the massages (smelled massage-oil on you or something) and despite your assurances that it was all non-sexual etc etc got really jealous. So to placate him you'd like to be excused from massage-duties if it's ok etc etc.

Bad idea imo, I'd strongly recommend being honest with it. What he's asking goes beyond what is acceptable in a corporate role of PA and he should understand that she is strong enough to stand up for herself, blaming her boyfriend would indicate that she can be manipulated emotionally as she's too weak to be honest about how she feels. If this is a reason for her to lose her job there are legal repercussions.

 

[MinervaSSS]

Well, I'm not sure what to make of my situation.

I was recently hired as a personal assistant after over a year of unsuccessfully searching for a job.

My boss mentioned from the very beginning that he's had various leg injuries so he's been receiving massages 7 years now from the assistants he's had. He presented the massaging portion of the job as an option, though, the main duties being filing, light cleaning, and general organizing. So I said yes to that portion of the job, eager to secure the job (and seeing no real problem with it).

So up until recently we'd only communicated with each other through email and over the phone. Today we met in person as a sort of interview to ensure that we were certain we wanted to work together. We met at Starbucks and then went on to the room he rents, in which he has his office. Anyways, I agreed to the massaging and we went through with it. He was very nice about it and kept making sure I was comfortable with it.

But it wasn't until today that I realized it was a full body massage... which is customarily done in the nude. And I have to admit it was a tiny bit shocking seeing this person I'd just met naked, let alone touching him in that state.

Well, I like to think of myself as quite open-minded. But for some reason I didn't feel as comfortable as I wanted to. I had thoughts of: 'What is my boyfriend going to think', 'or my friends', 'Is this wrong', 'is it my prudish upbringing'.. etc.

So I really don't know how I feel about it. It just seems so foreign and potentially taboo that it's confusing me. I think there's nothing wrong with it in theory, so I don't know what the problem is.

Maybe I'm just too concerned with how others would view it. Even though I don't believe that should necessarily be a determining factor.

Anyways, thoughts? reprimands? Perspective please?

I think that because on your end, you're a person with some integrity and respect, you are respectful of his request because he is your employer. He has power over your position, but, he is exploiting it. Nowhere in your job description does it say "personal masseuse", I'll bet. Just take your case to HR, if you can. If there's no HR, then I'd suggest establishing boundaries with this guy stating clearly that massaging is not on the list of things to do.

He was making sure you were ok with it because he knows that if you weren't, he would be in serious trouble. Becuase you agreed to be ok with it, this puts him in the clear - you have given him permission, consent. You are the deciding factor here - it's not very widely known, but some rapists try to establish normalcy within an abnormal situation, while saying things like, 'I would never do anything to hurt you', you nod and agree, but then they go ahead and do the opposite - him not being consistent with his words is a sure sign that he is exploiting your good intentions.

He might blame you for 'misrepresenting' yourself or lying about the fact that you were ok with it in the begining, but it is totally your right to say no, I don't want to do this with you, it makes me uncomfortable. And don't feel ashamed or guilty for saying yes in the first place - you did it out of feelings of duty and obligation - meanwhile, his motivations were probably not so honourable. ...My two cents, and all the best.

 

[MinervaSSS]

Isn't that what pedos do to little kids? Like conditioning or some term I can't remember. That seems extremely predatory and gross.

Absolutely - he is trying to normalize the situation by asking for your consent, and conditioning you to think it's all 'ok' when it's clearly not.

You INFPs are generous, giving people - but don't give in to this creepazoid.

Go with the suggestion of your b/f smelling massage oil and not being cool with it, or introduce him to your b/f even - establish boundaries. Or, just look for another job. You're worth it.

 

[Valiant]

What do you mean work ethic would make you do it until then..? People would be clever about getting back at a perv like that so they'd keep going till the law protected them?

Yes, it's nothing sexual at all, or at least it doesn't feel remotely sexual. Hehe, of course.. who better than nurturing INFPs right?

Oh, not "work ethic" as in "you've gotta have it, too, unless you're a bad little apple"
I meant it more along the lines of "swedes over-exaggerate boss loyalty kind of like the japanese and germans do".

And you should definitely not put up with this unless it is completely harmless and you are fine with it.
Hope everything will be fine... Is there no chance you can talk to him about this?

 

[Kasper]

Go with the suggestion of your b/f smelling massage oil and not being cool with it, or introduce him to your b/f even - establish boundaries.

Why should she blame her boyfriend? Is this to spare his feelings? To give the impression that if she was single it would be ok? That she isn't strong enough to make her own decisions?

Honestly I don't understand this suggestion nor do I understand why people suggest it's the best way out. There are times to play innocent and suggest someone else is the reason something can't happen but not this, how would that establish boundaries? If he's looking for ways to get her to do something she's not comfortable with knowing she's too insecure in herself to be blunt or worries too much about offending him to say she's uncomfortable means he can figure out how to manipulate her, and rather easily.

Besides, she's already stated there's no issue with telling him she doesn't want to do it without needing an excuse.

 

[Intricate Mystic]

The fact that you are posing this question, tells me that you must have some feeling that the situation with this boss may not be quite right.
Did you tell this man that you had been looking for work for over a year? If so, from his perspective he probably sees you as someone who really needs a job, is very nice, and gullible.
Also, he shouldn't have been completely naked for a leg massage!!!!! If he truly has leg muscle problems, he could have just worn shorts, or undies with a towel draped over. Also, I'm assuming you are alone with him in this rented office, with no way to call for help from someone else if you need it? This sounds like a bad situation. I wouldn't trust this guy at all. Predators can sometimes be very charming and convincing, so don't get taken in by his saying that you can just file and clean and skip the massages if you prefer. If my daughter were in this situation, I would want her out of it ASAP, and would recommend that she inform the guy by phone that she was quitting, with no personal contact with him again under any circumstances.

 

[Orangey]

Oh man, this guy sounds like a TOTAL creep.

 

[little.bad.apple]

So I emailed him this.

"Hi, Mr. _________.
Well, I'm sorry for not bringing it up before, but after thinking about it I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the massage part of the job. I am still more than willing to do all the other tasks though. But I understand if you want to keep looking for someone who can do both jobs, I know it is very convenient to have just one employee. So no hard feelings either way, and thanks for the opportunity."

I sent this in the morning and later today realized there is no way I should still be working for him, even if it would just be the office work. Actually, it took discussing it with my boyfriend to see just how potentially dangerous the situation would be. My idealized way of looking at it was 'If he didn't attempt to cause harm the first time when he had the chance (because we were alone), why would he do it later on..'

Anyways, he said that yes, he is going to keep looking for someone who will do both "since that's much easier" for him. So I'm glad that's over.

So thanks everyone for the perspective. I guess it's situations like this that call immediate attention to a self-assessment.

 

[INTJMom]

Why should she blame her boyfriend? Is this to spare his feelings? To give the impression that if she was single it would be ok? That she isn't strong enough to make her own decisions?

Honestly I don't understand this suggestion nor do I understand why people suggest it's the best way out. There are times to play innocent and suggest someone else is the reason something can't happen but not this, how would that establish boundaries? If he's looking for ways to get her to do something she's not comfortable with knowing she's too insecure in herself to be blunt or worries too much about offending him to say she's uncomfortable means he can figure out how to manipulate her, and rather easily.

Besides, she's already stated there's no issue with telling him she doesn't want to do it without needing an excuse.

Very true... but I have an INFP sister who NEVER tells her real feelings about anything. The suggestion to blame it on the boyfriend is just the kind of thing my INFP sister would do.

 

[INTJMom]

So I emailed him this.

"Hi, Mr. _________.
Well, I'm sorry for not bringing it up before, but after thinking about it I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the massage part of the job. I am still more than willing to do all the other tasks though. But I understand if you want to keep looking for someone who can do both jobs, I know it is very convenient to have just one employee. So no hard feelings either way, and thanks for the opportunity."

I sent this in the morning and later today realized there is no way I should still be working for him, even if it would just be the office work. Actually, it took discussing it with my boyfriend to see just how potentially dangerous the situation would be. My idealized way of looking at it was 'If he didn't attempt to cause harm the first time when he had the chance (because we were alone), why would he do it later on..'

Anyways, he said that yes, he is going to keep looking for someone who will do both "since that's much easier" for him. So I'm glad that's over.

So thanks everyone for the perspective. I guess it's situations like this that call immediate attention to a self-assessment.

Good for you! I'm proud of you... and I know how hard it is to give up your job like that... especially after looking for so long. You've done the right thing.

 

[Grayscale]

Seems everyone is forgetting that it's possible he didnt have any ill intent. Regardless, he should find an assistant that is both comfortable and trained in massage... private massages are nothing new, although I'm not sure how they deal with the potential dangers that could arise (maybe keep some pepper spray in your pocket?) He should have also offered contact information for his previous assistant(s) to vouch for him.