WTF I'm disadvantaged

[Kasper]

Hap, the answer to this is awesome! Comics! That's right, comics! They may be kinda shit, but religious comics will catch you up to speed in no time, dude they have it all; Murder, bigamy, insanity, super powers and all forms of disasters so it's not as bad as reading say, the life and tales of Sharebear the huggable rainbow care bear. I admit it's not something most people would read willingly but it's better than reading the bible *waits for the lightning strike or Peguy, whatever hits first*

 

[Haphazard]

Hap, the answer to this is awesome! Comics! That's right, comics! They may be kinda shit, but religious comics will catch you up to speed in no time, dude they have it all; Murder, bigamy, insanity, super powers and all forms of disasters so it's not as bad as reading say, the life and tales of Sharebear the huggable rainbow care bear. I admit it's not something most people would read willingly but it's better than reading the bible *waits for the lightning strike or Peguy, whatever hits first*

Oooh!


I mean I read a lot of ancient religion stuff when I was a kid (Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, etc whatever) so I do catch a lot more of that stuff than other kids do -- but turning wine into fish or whatever Jesus did? Nope. No idea.

I mean it's really self-defeating. If you figure that you can't teach it at school you're figuring that people would be offended by it -- and if you're figuring that people would be offended by it, they believe differently than you -- and if they believe differently than you they're not going to get the references that you figure they have to know because they've been going to PSR when they haven't been because that's not what they believe.

I agree that a Christian majority can no longer be assumed in advanced classes. A fair chunk of my class is Hindu this year.

 

[run]

The bible text is available for free online,

So are physics books. Physicists have opinions too. The problem is that many people think we can't understand religion objectively and logically, like we can Physics. We can.

As for teaching it in schools.... ahhh, this makes me think of my first Religious Education class when I first started high school at the age of 12. Our teacher told us that everything we learnt in that class would underpin our entire education to come and that girls who don't practise their faith or acknowledge God (the right God, that is) go to hell. Let me tell you, there were tears! Much of my earlier Christian education did feel a lot like "imposing ethical facts by force".
To some people this might seem a bit extreme and I'm sure many Christians would disagree with teaching faith in this way. But I also don't think many Christians would appreciate their religion being taught as having no real objective truth and being one of many equally right choices (at least the ones I know).
I guess this is why it really shouldn't be taught in schools, esp. since the ones these days are becoming increasingly multicultural and a Christian majority can't be assumed anymore. Still, studying the text as a text alongside Lit would be helpful

So there are those who impose christianity by force, and there are those who feel it shouldn't be "taught as having no real objective truth" and neither of those are good for schools so therefore it shouldn't be taught in schools? I think that's a false dichotomy. You can teach the Bible as having objective truth. No one has to believe it. My physics teacher told us there were 22 dimensions. I thought there were 11. I wasn't offended. Plus, telling us we're going to hell isn't necessary to teach a Bible class. That person's obviously got something with them...

 

[prplchknz]

in thousands and thousands of years from now the bible will be like what greek mythology is today. that's my prediction, and yeah the old testament has some cool stories in it, especially if you're reading it not for some truth but for you're entertainment. I had to study the bible as a literary text senior year of highschool, luckily my teacher knew that not everyone was christian so when we studied the new testament well it didn't matter because we were just studying like any other piece of literature we would if their needed to be background info he'd give it to us. But you don't need to be christian to study the bible as a literary text. Think about we read literature as mostly fiction people read the bible as a sort of non-fiction, when reading the bible as literature you are not trying to find the ultimate truth. Just dissect the same you would with any other book.

 

[Usehername]

Kids can google the goddamn bible if they need that badly for class. And if kids really need to learn the bible for lit class, than the islamic quran should be taught in history or L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics for psychic class.

My point is that the bible really that necessary in the school system?! If you think so, then all religions should be taught in school for all subjects that may be discussed in a book students might read.

If you can't tell, I'm a hardcore athiest, so I think religion should stay the fuck out our school system.

I can respect the principal of your opinion, but she's talking about being, quote, "handicapped" from not knowing the original sources that so many Western literature pieces refer to. Yes, the Bible is really that necessary to teach Western literature, and no, there aren't comparable "necessities" to knowing alternate religions enough to be taught in every Western high school (speaking of the mandatory classes like English Lit). It's the same for Art History in university--I know atheists who are struggling in their classes and their grades are suffering because they don't know the Bible, it's that intertwined. When they catch that there's something they're missing they ask for help to find the Biblical reference they presume is there, but most of the time they don't even notice that there is a Biblical reference, and then A students are getting Cs because they weren't taught the Bible.

As I said earlier, I have read The Life of Milarepa/have read the Vedas/etc. and it speaks nothing about my beliefs--I'm just educating myself.

 

[Athenian200]

You know, I don't know what it is, but I find Christianity and Islam far more offensive and unfair than any other religions I've encountered. I studied Greco-Roman mythology and accompanying astrology without feeling offended. I studied Taoism, Mesopotamian gods, Egyptian gods, etc... all without feeling extremely offended.

 

[run]

You know, I don't know what it is, but I find Christianity and Islam far more offensive and unfair than any other religions I've encountered. I studied Greco-Roman mythology and accompanying astrology without feeling offended. I studied Taoism, Mesopotamian gods, Egyptian gods, etc... all without feeling extremely offended.

I find the heliocentric theory offensive.

But the geocentric theory isn't so bad.

 

[Athenian200]

I find the heliocentric theory offensive.

But the geocentric theory isn't so bad.

You're a Christian, aren't you?

 

[miss fortune]

I've read excerpts from quite a few different religious texts as parts of various classes (such as mythology, literature, spanish or sociology) and nobody was ever offended by that.

There's a difference between teaching and preaching... I just generally suspect that most people are too idiotic to pick up on this

 

[Lateralus]

Kids can google the goddamn bible if they need that badly for class. And if kids really need to learn the bible for lit class, than the islamic quran should be taught in history or L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics for psychic class.

My point is that the bible really that necessary in the school system?! If you think so, then all religions should be taught in school for all subjects that may be discussed in a book students might read.

If you can't tell, I'm a hardcore athiest, so I think religion should stay the fuck out our school system.

The OP isn't talking about teaching religion as a religion. Rather, the OP doesn't know the stories in the Bible which have had a major influence on Western literature. Can you name any stories from the Qu'ran that have had a major influence on Western literature? If you can, you have a valid point. If not, your post is worthless.

 

[tinkerbell]

I have a degree of sympathy with the OP but to be honest many of these classes could do with much more life experiences generally.. a fair amount of symbolisim goes far futher than bible studies... goes into other religious belifes or artistic references that people who have only been to school can't get until they have been in the world.

It's not an easy place to be but it's not exclusively about the bible, and I think it wouldn't be a good argument to teach one type of religion in school without others being included....

Many of these exams would be SO much easier if you could defer them until you'd travelled a fair bit and had some profound life expeiriences... But thats never gonna happen.

 

[Kyrielle]

There's this problem with literature classes --

oh hell. There's always a problem with literature classes.

But the current problem is a religious problem, I suppose.

Teachers aren't allowed to teach the Bible in school. However, kids are still expected to catch all the Biblical references in literature because apparently "it's just an integral part of Western literature."

WTF. This is like teaching kids calculus without teaching them Algebra first. How is someone supposed to know who John was if they were learning the Vedas instead?

Discuss what should be done.

I understand your problem. While I grew up in a Christian family, I wasn't really ever taught stories from the Bible in a format that worked for me. That, and my family only ever had a King James version, so when I would try to read the stories as a kid, I often got really lost in the diction used. So when I took a literature class later in high school, I didn't always get the Biblican references. However, I think instead of others looking at people who don't understand Biblical references as if they have a second head, they could take it as an opportunity to see what the text looks like to someone who is outside of conventional Western Culture.

Teaching the Bible as a literary text would be great. I think I would have enjoyed learning the stories simply as stories. Much like I really enjoy learning stories from other religions. It is just difficult to simply enjoy the stories from the Bible because of the heavy religious obligation I feel from my family to "believe" in what I'm reading. Like I couldn't tell them I read the Bible without them expecting me to suddenly be a Christian.

 

[Sniffles]

*waits for the lightning strike or Peguy, whatever hits first*

Boo.

 

[Grayscale]

Well christians are probably afraid people won't teach it right, which is understandable.

religion is not taught in schools because...

I'm a hardcore athiest, so I think religion should stay the fuck out our school system.

OP: the Bible is the most popular book of all time... you are telling me you can't find any resources on it? not all classes will teach you everything you need to know in class, it is not uncommon for teachers to expect self study to support your understanding of the class material.

 

[Usehername]

not all classes will teach you everything you need to know in class, it is not uncommon for teachers to expect self study to support your understanding of the class material.

She's in high school, not university--I've never met a high school teacher who expected self-study for a mandatory course.

 

[Grayscale]

She's in high school, not university--I've never met a high school teacher who expected self-study for a mandatory course.

Ah, true, maybe with the exception of some private schools...

In that case the OP should bring this up with their teacher and make it the teacher's problem. Not a matter of the Bible or religion, the teacher should not use references that students won't understand unless they are willing to also explain them.

 

[miss fortune]

I'd just think that if a person was actually curious enough about the topic and bothered enough by it to start a thread, they wouldn't mind doing a little outside research in order to understand things better

just saying...

However, the bible is a large, dry book, so I'd suggest getting a children's picture bible to scan for references. It's much more interesting and ILLUSTRATED!

 

[Grayscale]

I'd just think that if a person was actually curious enough about the topic and bothered enough by it to start a thread, they wouldn't mind doing a little outside research in order to understand things better

just saying...

However, the bible is a large, dry book, so I'd suggest getting a children's picture bible to scan for references. It's much more interesting and ILLUSTRATED!

did someone say felt board?

 

[cafe]

Too bad VeggieTales isn't more accurate.

 

[Liminality]

The Bible For Dummies:Book Information - For Dummies