worst type for the military

[Nighthawk]

I think you underrate the toughness of ESTJ's. The toughness together with the greater ability to follow strict discipline makes ESTJ > ESTP for the military.

I've seen both do well in the Army. The ESTPs are especially successful during wartime and when breaking the rules yields success. I've seen some rise all the way to the top. I have to give the slight edge to ESTJs for mainstream existence in the military however. They seem to be the best fit for day-to-day operations.

 

[NewEra]

I've seen both do well in the Army. The ESTPs are especially successful during wartime and when breaking the rules yields success. I've seen some rise all the way to the top. I have to give the slight edge to ESTJs for mainstream existence in the military however. They seem to be the best fit for day-to-day operations.

Oooh, good point. Yeah, the ESTJ would perform better in the day-to-day rigor and discipline, but the ESTP would be more successful in the actual combat, the Se would be vital here.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ Yeah but ESTPs have way too many problems with authority and impulsive behavior.

You really can't run a military operation with unpredictable soldiers.

 

[Mole]

The worst type for the military are those who believe in MBTI.

 

[ragashree]

The worst type for the military are those who believe in MBTI.

Absolutely! That kind of self-analysis can play havoc with the culture of unthinking discipline and obedience...

 

[Mole]

Absolutely! That kind of self-analysis can play havoc with the culture of unthinking discipline and obedience...

Hoist on my own petard.

 

[Nighthawk]

^ Yeah but ESTPs have way too many problems with authority and impulsive behavior.

You really can't run a military operation with unpredictable soldiers.

That's also true. I've seen more than one loose cannon totally screw up an operation. It's quite a mixed bag. If, as Keirsey suggests, SPs trust their impulses ... then good impulses can equal success. I had one commander who seemed to go off half-cocked a lot ... but is methods were invariable successful. Unfortunately, he did not always take the big picture into account. During one operation, he was tactically successful in destroying an enemy unit twice the size of his ... but he also tipped off the larger enemy unit that we were trying to flank them before all our firepower was in place. It took a lot of juggling of units to fix that blunder. When a general called him to the carpet for jumping the gun, his reply was, "I thought we came here to fight."

 

[93JC]

I don't know for sure, but INTP has got to be up there. At least as a grunt. As an officer off the frontlines I think we'd do alright, but as a grunt with a gun... yikes...

No NCO will appreciate their orders being questioned, and that's... pretty much all I'd ever do. I imagine my own squad leader would kill me before the enemy.

"You know what Sarge, I think your orders are idiotic. And here's why."

 

[simulatedworld]

The worst type for the military are those who believe in MBTI.

You sure about that? Isn't group-think/unquestioning acceptance good for the military?

 

[Nighthawk]

I don't know for sure, but INTP has got to be up there. At least as a grunt. As an officer off the frontlines I think we'd do alright, but as a grunt with a gun... yikes...

No NCO will appreciate their orders being questioned, and that's... pretty much all I'd ever do. I imagine my own squad leader would kill me before the enemy.

"You know what Sarge, I think your orders are idiotic. And here's why."

LOL ... that's pretty much how it went between me and several majors/colonels. Things would sometimes disintegrate into screaming matches. I was never directly disciplined for it (miracle), but it's no wonder I never made it past captain.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ Oh right, no response from Victor. I guess that's become an MO--show up, make a hilarious claim about MBTI users that willingly misinterprets its uses--then disappear without response to criticism.

Right. You're going to have to come up with some new material, Victor, or even fewer people will take you seriously than already do.

 

[Giggly]

I have a male ESFP cousin who got kicked out of the Army during bootcamp.

 

[ergophobe]

I would suck in the military - can't follow orders. Would also have a serious existential crisis in relation to the institution.

 

[TSDesigner]

I served 13 years active duty in the Army, starting with 4 years of military school. It sucked.

Then why would you subject yourself to all that for so long?

 

[Nighthawk]

Then why would you subject yourself to all that for so long?

I was seriously misguided and determined to make it work. I mistakenly thought that if I just tried harder, it would all magically coalesce into something enjoyable ... or at least tolerable. Then there was the carrot of free grad school dangled in front of my nose if I could just stick out a few more years. Ultimately, when grad school went away ... so did I.

I also had a big chip on my shoulder that I needed to prove something to my father ... the war veteran. Once I had a war under my belt however, the rest of it ceased to have any meaning and I was "free" to go my own way.

 

[BlackCat]

I was seriously misguided and determined to make it work. I mistakenly thought that if I just tried harder, it would all magically coalesce into something enjoyable ... or at least tolerable. Then there was the carrot of free grad school dangled in front of my nose if I could just stick out a few more years. Ultimately, when grad school went away ... so did I.

I also had a big chip on my shoulder that I needed to prove something to my father ... the war veteran. Once I had a war under my belt however, the rest of it ceased to have any meaning and I was "free" to go my own way.

Did you at least get a good amount of money from the almost two decade ordeal you had with the army?

Also look on the bright side... you didn't die.

 

[Nighthawk]

Did you at least get a good amount of money from the almost two decade ordeal you had with the army?

Also look on the bright side... you didn't die.

They gave me a five-figure chunk of change when I got out. My ex-wives blew everything prior to that. I also got VA and GI Bill benefits. I rarely use the former, but parlayed that latter into a masters degree. Then there are the intangibles ... like some self-discipline and a willingness to be satisfied with less (Hey, nobody is shooting at me and I get to work indoors ... this is great ). ... and yes, staying alive was a key point as well.

 

[NewEra]

^ Yeah but ESTPs have way too many problems with authority and impulsive behavior.

You really can't run a military operation with unpredictable soldiers.

Good point. Plus ESTJs will be disciplined soldiers.

 

[Scott N Denver]

I was seriously misguided and determined to make it work. I mistakenly thought that if I just tried harder, it would all magically coalesce into something enjoyable ... or at least tolerable. Then there was the carrot of free grad school dangled in front of my nose if I could just stick out a few more years. Ultimately, when grad school went away ... so did I.

I also had a big chip on my shoulder that I needed to prove something to my father ... the war veteran. Once I had a war under my belt however, the rest of it ceased to have any meaning and I was "free" to go my own way.

OMG I can TOTALLY relate to the overall premise here. People keep telling me "Scott, you cant change other people [or at least force them to change anyways]" but little idealistic ol me keeps thinking "If I just stay in another day *something* will change. Some things do change, but usually only small things.

 

[Nighthawk]

OMG I can TOTALLY relate to the overall premise here. People keep telling me "Scott, you cant change other people [or at least force them to change anyways]" but little idealistic ol me keeps thinking "If I just stay in another day *something* will change. Some things do change, but usually only small things.

I kept hoping the next promotion would take me to greener pastures. I also hitched my star to a transfer to military intelligence with the hope that it would be more appealing to my type (even though I didn't know I was INTP at that time). Neither came to fruition. Basically, I had to slog through a bunch of crap jobs to try to grab the brass ring ... which was a moving target. I did enjoy being a unit commander, as I had a tremendous amount of autonomy and was literally the lord of all I surveyed. Alas, that was only fleeting as well.