The SJ Dominance of Education

[violaine]

^+1, I was like that when young too. My little niece is the same.

 

[Sniffles]

+2 for me as well; especially the one about feeling overwhelmed by many interests and abilities.

 

[violaine]

^Yes, I used to find it very distressing that I will never be able to pursue everything that interests me to the degree I want to. :/

 

[tibby]

+3 (but maybe there are equally as many negative traits to cancel abovementioned out to anything productive to come out or just one).

Although I'mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............................................
Ssssssssssssssssssslowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

(maybe it's that)



lol..........

 

[FDG]

I'm so gifted that I'm not gifted, I am a gift to humanity, shit.

 

[sunset5678]

I wasn't exactly termed as gifted until I was around twenty three...which
was confirmed when I was about twenty six. Especially the long term me-
mory, perceptiveness and ability to retain information. I stunk in math to
say the least but was advanced in vocabulary and reading and was told I
was a natural for things like musical instruments, singing and acting and
even though there were foreign languages I concentrated on specifically I
had the abilities to teach myself things about other ones researching orig-
ins and looking for the 'latin roots' and noticing how even though they we-
re different forms of words could be traced from one language to the oth-
er, but I couldn't be termed as autistic/aspergers which i was a little wat-
ched for because I had the social skills and seemed uninhibited in approa-
ching new people and getting to know them easily and had a few close fr-
ends of my own age so i left a few aptitude testers scratching their heads
as to what to do with me. I didn't get in much trouble but I was still se-
en as trouble by people in positions of authority sometimes because I had
an independent streak and could ignore any clique that was pressuring
me to go along with what they wanted someone they knew to hear since
I had a lot of friends who were termed nerds/brains/uncool etc but i still
had friends that were head cheerleaders or guys who were known for their
athletic abilities in the school days and have friends who are partiers or
work in clothing stores that you can have fashion chats with so I was seen
as a threat to the 'social order' or set standards of ways for doing things
because I didn't wait until something got back to me to make up my own mind

 

[Athenian200]

I wasn't exactly termed as gifted until I was around twenty three...which
was confirmed when I was about twenty six. Especially the long term me-
mory, perceptiveness and ability to retain information. I stunk in math to
say the least but was advanced in vocabulary and reading and was told I
was a natural for things like musical instruments, singing and acting and
even though there were foreign languages I concentrated on specifically I
had the abilities to teach myself things about other ones researching orig-
ins and looking for the 'latin roots' and noticing how even though they we-
re different forms of words could be traced from one language to the oth-
er, but I couldn't be termed as autistic/aspergers which i was a little wat-
ched for because I had the social skills and seemed uninhibited in approa-
ching new people and getting to know them easily and had a few close fr-
ends of my own age so i left a few aptitude testers scratching their heads
as to what to do with me. I didn't get in much trouble but I was still se-
en as trouble by people in positions of authority sometimes because I had
an independent streak and could ignore any clique that was pressuring
me to go along with what they wanted someone they knew to hear since
I had a lot of friends who were termed nerds/brains/uncool etc but i still
had friends that were head cheerleaders or guys who were known for their
athletic abilities in the school days and have friends who are partiers or
work in clothing stores that you can have fashion chats with so I was seen
as a threat to the 'social order' or set standards of ways for doing things
because I didn't wait until something got back to me to make up my own mind

Wall of text hits you for 1,704 damage.

But your experience sounds typical of an NT in the educational system.

 

[jazzyidahovandal]

College was awesome for me, more of a challenge and I got a chance to meet different types of people. I hated high school with a passion and couldn't wait to get out of town!

 

[Thalassa]

Gifted Adults
Characteristics of Gifted Adults
perfectionistic and sets high standards for self and others
has strong moral convictions
is highly sensitive, perceptive or insightful
fascinated by words or an avid reader
feels out-of-sync with others
is very curious
has an unusual sense of humour
a good problem solver
has a vivid and rich imagination
questions rules or authority
has unusual ideas or connects seemingly unrelated ideas
thrives on challenge
learns new things rapidly
has a good long-term memory
feels overwhelmed by many interests and abilities
is very compassionate
feels outrage at moral breaches that the rest of the world seems to take for granted
has passionate, intense feelings
has a great deal of energy
can't switch off thinking
feels driven by creativity
loves ideas and ardent discussion
needs periods of contemplation
searches for ???? in their life
feels a sense of alienation and loneliness
is very perceptive
feels out of step with others
Not the best link.......actually all my links are making a liar out of me....but in my previous research independence of thought was a defining characteristic of a gifted person.
I have trouble with the concept too....I only found out I was gifted on the last day of high school. I hadn't been through any special programmes or anything, and I just forgot about it. A friend brought up the possibility last year again when she dropped a paper off about gifted adult experiences, with the words "If you tell me none of this reminds you of you, I'll kick you".

Ok, I appear to be a gifted adult. This pretty much describes me and I was in accelerated and honors classes all through school, even when I started slacking in high school, I still made a perfect score on the AP lit exam.

I would love to be a teacher. I would love to be the kind of teacher that I wish I had. I did have some good teachers, and a couple of great teachers. The problem isn't really the teachers it's THE SYSTEM.

The System isn't getting better, either, it's getting worse. It's as though they're trying to make things even more regimented and structured than it was before. "No Child Left Behind" is a crock of steaming shit that is pushing what creativity was left in the classroom right out of the window. Everything is centered around standardized testing now.

There are some improvements being made in learning, though. Many of you probably don't even know how many flaming hoops of fire a person has to go through to even become a teacher these days. About 800 clock hours of in-school observation spread out over semesters, not just one semester of student teaching as in the olden days. There are also vast improvements being made in the way that concepts are taught by interdisciplinary thematic units and utilizing reader-response theory in the classroom instead of forcing old-fashioned efferent learning down kids' throats.

I would love to be a teacher. I would love to bring creativity into the classroom. I'm terrified to teach middle or high school because although that was my original goal, I have since learned that elementary school seems to be the last bastion of the tiniest squeak of creativity in the public school system. I very well could become a teacher - I have the grades and the interest. What I don't have patience for is the regimented bullshit that keeps some very good teachers from being the teachers that they actually want to be.

I think that's why there's a teacher shortage: most people don't want to do it, and even the intelligent people who passionately do want to do it are getting scared away by the present state of The System.

 

[Little Linguist]

I'm an ESFJ with an IQ estimated in the 150s. How alienated do you think I felt in school? I was too smart and bored to enjoy the regimentation, but I didn't relate to the few other gifted students, either.




Yeah, but some of us are in that <1%. Small numbers of people still count.

Amen to that. I'm not really gifted, just took an IQ test in high school and got a 143 - I don't know how accurate that is...I suck at online tests.

Anyway, I get exactly what you mean. Although I enjoyed having a bit of structure due to my haphazard nature, I didn't like not being able to go at my own pace sometimes. Some teachers gave me that freedom and that was awesome. The other good students were 'different' from me, though....

I wasn't really part of any clique - not the jocks, not the cheerleaders, not the student gov folks, not the intelligent folks, not the punkers or rockers, not the dumbasses who slept all day, not the slackers, the sports fanatics, or the QUESTION AUTHORITY anarchists, not the wackos or the mentally ill, not the loners, not the geeks or freaks, NO ONE.

LOL What does that make me???

 

[Eiddy]

Ok, I appear to be a gifted adult. This pretty much describes me and I was in accelerated and honors classes all through school, even when I started slacking in high school, I still made a perfect score on the AP lit exam.

I would love to be a teacher. I would love to be the kind of teacher that I wish I had. I did have some good teachers, and a couple of great teachers. The problem isn't really the teachers it's THE SYSTEM.

The System isn't getting better, either, it's getting worse. It's as though they're trying to make things even more regimented and structured than it was before. "No Child Left Behind" is a crock of steaming shit that is pushing what creativity was left in the classroom right out of the window. Everything is centered around standardized testing now.

There are some improvements being made in learning, though. Many of you probably don't even know how many flaming hoops of fire a person has to go through to even become a teacher these days. About 800 clock hours of in-school observation spread out over semesters, not just one semester of student teaching as in the olden days. There are also vast improvements being made in the way that concepts are taught by interdisciplinary thematic units and utilizing reader-response theory in the classroom instead of forcing old-fashioned efferent learning down kids' throats.

I would love to be a teacher. I would love to bring creativity into the classroom. I'm terrified to teach middle or high school because although that was my original goal, I have since learned that elementary school seems to be the last bastion of the tiniest squeak of creativity in the public school system. I very well could become a teacher - I have the grades and the interest. What I don't have patience for is the regimented bullshit that keeps some very good teachers from being the teachers that they actually want to be.

I think that's why there's a teacher shortage: most people don't want to do it, and even the intelligent people who passionately do want to do it are getting scared away by the present state of The System.

I agree wholeheartedly it THE SYSTEM I have so many fun ideas, even the high school kids enjoyed them. But I was told just to stick to grammar and writing. No comprehension, poetry, presentations.. etc. As the only English teacher for 10th grade students. I started out with some activities just to break up the monotony, but alas, the school owner wanted only the two above subjects.

I loved conducting experiments on them. Muahahaha Example: once I divided them up into 3 groups and gave them noun suffixes to memorize.

Group A was to study them individually, repeat the suffixes to themselves and try to memorize.

Group B was to try to find words to attach it to, which might help memory recall.

Group C was put into another room and told to drill each other on the noun suffixes, not to write, not to associate, but to just drill each other.

Note: I divided up my top achievers into group A and B and had only one top achiever in group C.

Test time, they were given strips of paper, to write what they remember. Asked to write only their name and group, some started to write. I crumbled those papers up and repeated name and group only. That took a few minutes for everyone to fall in line.

Group C had double of what group A had and B was slightly more than A.

Some students were angry that they weren'tn put in Group C. I told them this is not a grading test, this is an example of how to practice information recall and how to study for a test. Grab your study buddies.

Activites like these were always fun. Sadly they were never encouraged, so I had to break the rules once in awhile.

 

[wildcat]

So over in the NT'S Opinion on school thread, it seemed almost unanimous that school is more geared towards SJs.

Do you agree with this?

Now it's obvious that SJs are drawn to these kinds of societal institutions, school seems to be made by and for SJs. Why do we allow this dominance?

Do you feel that the other temperaments could be better served by education? Focusing on their strengths? Is the potential of the other temperaments being fulfilled or is the time spent at these kinds of school being wasted and actually holding them back?

How could school have better suited your learning style? Did school prepare you for later life as well as you would have liked?

How do you think it could be improved to make the most of each type's potential?

It cannot be improved.

It is not about who is in the right.
It is about the public.

 

[Little Linguist]

It would funny to make education NF/NT based and watch everyone squirm.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Didn't I post in this thread? Hmm.

Anyhow, the highschool I was on was very NTJ/NFJ focused. It was the highest segment of high school in the netherlands and very independance based. I loved it as a P too since I never felt like I had to do any shit. But being the minimalist I was at the time, just high enough was good enough for me. I'd have to say it's pretty J based.

 

[tibby]

I was pretty much hard work in primary school to (supposedly) xSTJ teachers. To my experience there were more SJ teachers and mentality in prim school and lower sec. Didn't really enjoy school back then. I pretty much had no respect for authority for the sake of authority (their persona and flexibility, understanding, willingness to at least try to understand where I was coming from), and not just because "It Was So" or some ridiculous rule book called "Because I said so". I wanted freedom to do things my way and of expression, whereas they wanted me to do something specificly some way.

I always felt like they had this idea in their heads that we weren't suppose to question them nor their methods. Well it made me rebellious and probably contributed my overall lack of motivation.

I've only started enjoying education in upper sec. For me the most important thing is flexibility. Give choices and opportunities to pupils - some may enjoy independent work, given the goals and others audio-visual presentations and group discussion, others may be more comfortable being vocal on group discussion in the course's web discussion page, or asking directions from the tutor etc. Choices, flexibility and willingness to try to understand differences and even compromise. Don't get so insecure when someone comes along with new ideas or approach to do things, at least, hear them out without rebuffing them first-hand.

I'd like to get out from the whole activity in class showing your interest and abilities, unfortunately some still seem to think that way and grade / favour students only according to that. Obivously personality wise not favouring any should be a given. And obviously it's not that simple.

 

[Thalassa]

I wasn't really part of any clique - not the jocks, not the cheerleaders, not the student gov folks, not the intelligent folks, not the punkers or rockers, not the dumbasses who slept all day, not the slackers, the sports fanatics, or the QUESTION AUTHORITY anarchists, not the wackos or the mentally ill, not the loners, not the geeks or freaks, NO ONE.

LOL What does that make me???

A loner.

 

[Thalassa]

It cannot be improved.

It is not about who is in the right.
It is about the public.

It's about having a system that has to cater to the masses. MILLIONS of people. The system has to be uniform and control large numbers of children. It isn't surprising that a sort of SJ dominant, regimented control has been viewed as the most practical solution - because, quite frankly, in terms of numbers it is practical. Unfortunately the REALITY is human beings, not numbers.

I would honestly like to teach at a Montessori school or some other institution that had been set up for more right-brained learners.

 

[EJCC]

Thanks for creating/continuing with this thread. Although I can't really comment on it (being an SJ myself, and one who never really had trouble with learning), I can say that it reveals a huge problem that others may not have noticed before.
Excellent work.

 

[wildcat]

Thanks for creating/continuing with this thread. Although I can't really comment on it (being an SJ myself, and one who never really had trouble with learning), I can say that it reveals a huge problem that others may not have noticed before.
Excellent work.

A measure does not matter.
Learning abilities is a skill. A skill does not measure.
Skill properties matter in survival.
Intelligence is not a measure.
Understanding is independent of a measure.

The schools (and the IQ tests) are based on the applicability (usefulness) of intelligence in our culture.

Only if you are not behind, or ahead of our culture, you are accepted.
Conformity is adaptability. A fit in.

This has nothing to do with the MBTI, or a type.
Type prejudice does not differ from any other measure.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

SJ make the best factory workers.

Modern school system was designed for to provide industry raw labor.

No brainer.