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  1. #111
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    9 sp/sx


    Dunno exactly which turns this thread has made since it started, but to chip in on Bluemonday's and others arguements about power and control across and between the sexes.

    I believe the problem with power lies in an entirely different place. Not with the sexes, not with the peoplethat exploit power. But rather with the people that allow themselves to be exploited by power.

    Self control is the key. There will be people being able to control other people. In fact, it's very very easy to manipulate most people. Because in general, people, both men and women, often lack self-control. One of the least manipulative types of people are most likely the rationals (based on the fact we need to rationalize our actions for ourselves first. We don't go blindly following people around.). I know that the only way to manipulate me, is by bringing forth such good arguements, that I rationally decide to go the direction you want me to go.

    So all the talk about person A having power over person B. It's not that person A is so powerful. But rather that the person B lacks self-control and allows Person A to have that power over him. The counter-arguement is that we should allow ourselves to be influencable. Because if we would completely shut that off, then we'd have serious trouble forming relations and trust. So no one can completely shield themselves from being manipulated, without distancing themselves completely from other people.

    But we can make sure we're not being abused and controlled at unhealthy levels for long durations of time.

    Real power is knowing it's in your grasp, but having the self control to not abuse others by seizing it, in my opinion.

  2. #112
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    ^Agree with much of what you've said. However, don't believe Rationals are immune to manipulation or being manipulative ( ENTPs can be masters of the game).

    INTPs are particularly averse to attempts to manipulate them - when they spot them, because it's quite easily done. It can make them a bit paranoid.

    Power = Self-control is an equation I can relate to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #113
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Thumbs up `

    I work in an environment where the female/male ratio is about ten to 2 not
    counting management. Sometimes its nice to have those 'girl talks' and all
    that about boyfriends or whos outfit/shoes etc are cute but it gets to be a
    little bit redundant and male coworkers are more likely to start talking about
    something a little more intellectual or lighten the mood making the occassi-
    onal crack or pop culture reference. Sometimes tensions run high or there
    is no tension at all but it is more of a mask of everyone trying to be nice to
    the aggressive female coworker in the group to get on her good side becau-
    se they're afraid of her. Everyone thought it was pretty funny because
    most of them kind of shrink around her and usually I don't readily express
    anger and try to hold it in until I find a more appropriate way to settle stuff
    because I don't like to make a scene or when others are quick to make them
    but one time one of my female coworkers that gets a kick out of pushing
    people's buttons got on my case about something that wasn't even work
    related and started criticising me on it saying that it related to my abilities
    to be able to hold down a job and I got in her face and reminded her that
    she wasn't management and pretty much told her she needed to step off
    and start treating people with some respect and the only distraction was her
    bringing stuff up others weren't even mentioning because they knew they
    were there to get their work done and not keep up with stuff to try to
    impress everybody. sometimes a close to even gender ratio's a good thing
    because it tones down clique mentality some. I'm only employed part time
    so I just remind myself its stupid to try to keep up with gossip to please
    people I'm not even around all the time anyhow, I've been told better that
    people will use you or some just want to run around with who's 'available.'

  4. #114
    Senior Member Galusha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009


    "'men [are] as a rule more conversant with business affairs than . . . women... it is a matter of common knowledge, that women still are not engaged in politics, the professions, business or industry to the extent that men are'...[someone] might reasonably have 'concluded that in general men are better qualified to act as an administrator than are women'."
    - Frontiero v. Richardson(1973)

    I had to read this supreme court opinion yesterday. Please tear it apart. can you believe that this was legitimate legal reasoning only 30 years ago? Gah!

  5. #115
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    6w5 sp/sx


    I worked in an all-female environment once and it was fine. Might have been because it was in science (= on average, I think, more logical people than the norm) and because it was pretty small (6-8 other girls there) so maybe I just lucked out. There was really none of the stereotypical female behavior some of you (and this woman) have experienced...everyone was no more and no less reasonable than anywhere else I've worked, no real drama.

    I can see how encouraging/demanding an all-female workplace would attract the wrong sort of women though...
    -end of thread-

  6. #116
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009


    please god no, I hate working with women.

    They are so much less straightforward then men and can be so catty sometimes.

    I am in science so it is minimized however I currently work for the cattiest ESTJ ever. It is painful to watch her.

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