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Why do English teachers suck so vigorously?

Anja

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I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.

Armpits and civil discourse would be good. Problem is most kids are supposed to learn that at home. But they aren't.

Unfortunate that we keep dumbing down the classes so the lowest common denominator can pass.

A bright person like you could probably learn some advanced techniques and find them advantageous but it would probably make the class a drag for less intelligent kids.

There is always a further level that a subject can be carried if people aren't too lazy to pursue it.

Incidently I meet quite a few college-educated kids who are truly poorly equipped. I am astonished at what passes for an education these days. Are people able to tell when they are being taught something useless or are they just clueless about what they may be missing?

I know for me that many of the things I thought were worthless for my future came in handy later. Kids aren't always able to see what they need til they get there.
 

nozflubber

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have you ever taken a 500 or 5000 level English course in University? I think you'd be surprised at the intellectual stimulation that level provides.

Such as what happened to me? I never knew blind obedience to anti-walmart propaganda constituted "intellectual stimulation"... thanks!
 

Warm

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Like, sucking so much that they create in inescapable vacuum of s***iness which would only result in a catastrophic singularity of b**** shit to engulf the entire world and reduce us all to being subject to their mentally unstable, lunatic, horrible f'tastic teaching methods (teaching how being an old dried up b**** actually has some value to you and society) in the dimension of s***iness that they then create, existing entirely within their own ego-maniacal minds.

Seriously, why? Why is every English teacher I've EVER encountered a weird, bitchy, crazy, angry, off the handle, marbles missing, vindictive, egotistical, liberal, old, pruney woman? I just don't understand. Why are they all like this!? Surely there must be a decent person teaching this freaking subject SOMEWHERE!

Um, I'm an English teacher who is nothing like this. For some reason, my students love me. It's a bit ridiculous because I have kids who drop by but have never been in my class.
 

Anja

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Such as what happened to me? I never knew blind obedience to anti-walmart propaganda constituted "intellectual stimulation"... thanks!

Where are you studying?

If you're in high school you're fairly well stuck with what you get. But once you're in higher education it's time to stop letting education "happen" to you. It's not a passive process. You need to pursue quality education in order to get it. Have you researched where you will receive the type of education you desire? Are you able to discern between what is needed rather than what you like?

You have a responsibility to actively search for what you need. That places the onus directly back in your lap and not the teacher's if you are out of highschool and paying for junk education.
 

nozflubber

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Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own ;)
 

Eileen

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You know Nights an English teacher?

I wonder what it's like to be in his class.

I didn't realize that! High-five, Night!

Eileen's one, too. And she's lovely :)

Thanks! :wub:

Because they put too much imprtance on spelling and grammar.

I don't in daily life, usually, but I can't help that I do NOTICE every spelling and grammar error there is. However, English class is hardly all about grammar and spelling; in fact, I haven't taught enough of it this semester.

People gravitate toward English rather that philosophy because they dont put much stock in individual interpretation but believe in the underlyning message that they believe is deffinatly written. Therfore they may see their ideas and opinions as fact more often than not and look down on others who question or dissagree.

I dont really know.

I'm sure there are English teachers like this, and I have taught with some of them, but the majority of the teachers I know (and, uh, the ones I like) are all about "You can say what you want, but you have to be able to explain why. There must be a preponderance of evidence to substantiate your claim." There are established movements in literature to contend with, and sometimes for the sake of teaching Romanticism etc, you have to say something like "One of the themes of this piece of literature could be X. Now what details help to create this particular theme?"


In answer to the OP, we don't. In fact, we are hot. :coffee:

:devil:

When I do suck vigorously, I promise that it is never, ever a student. I prefer math teachers. ;)

TaDa! You rang, Risen? :hi:

I'll own (semi) liberal, weird, old and woman. But if you put me in a lineup, you'd pick me out as the sixties chick stuck on hippy setting. Or, depending on the day, biker babe.

I can hold a whole class of prejudiced, stereotyping dudes like you for forty-five minutes and make you LIKE it! No kidding.

So get a perspective, Guy. :smile:

:wubbie:


-2

I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.

Dude, it is so not about learning English when you get to college, but having worked in a university writing center in which I worked with undergraduates and graduates on a range of essay assignments, I can assure you that not everybody has the grasp of written language that they should at the college level.

My English classes in college were not especially challenging for me - I complained about that in my exit interview. However, I DID have a few critical theory classes that stretched my brain and helped me see how many different ways there are to approach a text. It may be that you simply don't think that being able to read in a variety of ways is important... or that you just don't get it. Whatever.

There are good and bad teachers everywhere, in every subject. There are also great students (who are both academically and personally excellent) and not so great students (who may have a range of academic or personal quality levels).

For my part, kids who behave and let me do my job tend to like me and enjoy my classes. I understand that my job is not to teach kids what literature says but how to read it closely. I happen to be in a department of teachers who share that same pedagogical belief.

Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own ;)

Comp is almost never taught by actual professors, and comp classes do tend to suck because the TAs are frequently not given many guidelines for them. Nonetheless, it is important that ANY professional is adept at written expression.
 

fleurdujour

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lol I think there are some gross generalizations going on here. I've been lucky and have had some pretty good English teachers (mostly in high school, College ones haven't been quite as good)--some bad ones too, of course. I'm an English major and have thought of teaching, so hopefully I wouldn't end up being one of the crazy nasty ones you're talking about! I think it's the same with any teachers... you get some good, some bad, sometimes you end up with a streak of bad ones... etc... Maybe you'll get lucky and get a good one sometime. Maybe they're just not challenging/teaching you the way that works well for you or the way that encourages you to get enjoyment out of the class? Are you in high school, college, or...?
 

fleurdujour

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I'd argue that at the college level they have simply run out of material to teach, because by God, most respectable half intelligent Americans KNOW ENGLISH AT THAT POINT. I mean hell, seriously, is there really any point to having the damn class after high school? I know how to write, I know how to speak the language, I know how to form a sentence, structure an essay, blah blah blah. This was all covered in HIGH SCRUEL (school + cruel). What is the point?! Put in some more subjects that are actually worth something. A class about how to shave my armpits would have more meaning than college level English.


English classes are not literally about the English language (in most cases). If you have mastered English grammar and are proud of yourself for that--that's great (not sarcastic)! Many people cannot say the same (most media publications even have at least one grammatical error). But this is not what you should be looking for in your English classes (especially at college or even high school level). English classes and the English subject, for the most part, are about English literature and the creative use of the English language. There is no other way to better learn about all aspects of the world--its past, present, and future--than to read the true inner depths of another person's thought. Saying English is a useless subject in college is saying anything in college or life is useless. Maybe you're so bitter toward English because you're looking strictly for straightforward fact in it and are not applying what you're reading to anything else--assimilating it in your own life as you would with anything else you learn (and by that I don't just mean assimilating what you learn from the literature itself, but also about how to read, think, and write critically, which is a useful skill to have and be able to apply to any subject or area of your life). English literature is often not straightforward and not to be taken for face value. It requires you to really think. You're not spoon-fed information for a reason--you are encouraged to form ideas and absorb ideas that help you to see the world in different ways. And if you are thinking, "what is the point of seeing other views of the world when I know where I stand?" then you are inhibiting yourself from gaining any insight or intelligence from anything in your life. As Einstein himself said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." You will never grow as a person or see anything great in your lifetime if you can't appreciate some aspect of non-fact. Also, if you are bitter because you feel like you are above all of the grammar (and thus, by your reasoning, the English language), then you are also sorely mistaken. Until you can write a masterful creative piece of literature filled with depths of meaning and masterful employment of the English language, you are not above any English class and the study of masterful pieces of literature by artists that have already accomplished such (just as you cannot argue that you are above a mathematician that can kick your a$$ at devising a complex equation to solve a multifaceted mathematical dilemma).
 

Night

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I mean... I think I've had one that was KINDA nice out of probably 15 English teachers in my life (I moved a lot as a kid). I don't know what it is, but I seem to always get the ones that have something to prove and someone to tear down. Half the time they will target me for whatever reason. I've always been a good student, and always respectful of my teachers. What I've found with these bitter old English women is they have a surprisingly marked lack of respect. That's the best way I can describe it. They just see students, and based on some unknown criteria, decide that they are not even deserving of a humane level of respect. For this reason I have often found myself having to do battle with these people, though I hate having to go that route; they leave me no other choice. I find it surprising that I am still facing this even on the college level. It's disheartening. It seems that peace and avoidance doesn't work with these people, so I will once again have to be a hard ass with these teachers lest they walk all over me. It all seems so juvenile in a very high school sort of way...

Your title post is incoherent fuzz, so I'll comment on this particular post.

As a former teacher, I can tell you that most tenured teachers are very difficult to upend from their position. What's more, so long as they engineer their curriculum to adhere to the Standards and Benchmarks of their respective state, it is very difficult for an external source (you) to cultivate sufficient data to warrant disciplinary action (like termination/replacement), short of egregious malfeasance on the part of the teacher.

That isn't to suggest that teachers who do not meet your personal criteria are necessarily adequate/inadequate professionals. More often than not, you are witnessing a single digit of behavior from within the vast occupational expectations handbook teachers are anticipated to embody. On the whole, most teachers (especially new ones) will typically work anywhere from 50-60 hours/wk (minus take-home corrections/lesson planning; commute; extracurricular student activities; etc.) for substandard pay (27-33K/yr in Wisconsin, depending on district).

Sure, it's nice to have summers off and great health coverage, but the level of stress one encounters is...incredible.

Not a business I'm interested in pursuing again.
 

Anja

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Your post would make sense to my case, Anja, if the course in question wasn't a required Liberal Arts course to graduate.... I don't go to USF for the shitty English Comp courses taught by inept English degree holding professors, I go for Psych and Physics. But I'm sure you knew that and know my "educational responsibilities" better than I know my own ;)

Okey-dokey. I'm sure I haven't a clue. ;)

Sorry that you're encountering substandard ed. It's on the menu these days. My statements stand that it's up to you to make sure you get what you need if the system isn't providing it.

And please don't miss the fact that good communication skills are at the base of nearly every job you can pursue.

A positive attitude now will pay off at work as well.

Hey, fellow English majors.
 

Eileen

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Such as what happened to me? I never knew blind obedience to anti-walmart propaganda constituted "intellectual stimulation"... thanks!

I bet my bottom dollar that your English comp class was not a high-level English course. It was probably the same English 101/102 class that I took to satisfy a gen ed requirement.

Try taking an advanced rhetoric, linguistics, or literature class if you are looking for intellectual stimulation - not freshman comp. Come on.
 

Kaizer

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My English teachers have always been nice.. very nice & definitely nice teachers even the one who was in her 60s or maybe even 70s. And one of them went beyond just being a just a teacher of English, though I doubt she realized that.... professional, accommodating without being unjust, precise without being pedantic etc. a good teacher... and I'd think that teaching language isn't easy in the least!

besides, just Eileen & Tallulah are more than twice enough to disprove the op ;)
in more than one way
 

Cimarron

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I bet my bottom dollar that your English comp class was not a high-level English course. It was probably the same English 101/102 class that I took to satisfy a gen ed requirement.

Try taking an advanced rhetoric, linguistics, or literature class if you are looking for intellectual stimulation - not freshman comp. Come on.
Yeah, I took a Rhetoric & Persuasive Writing class last semester, and had a good teacher. He was someone in whose class you actually enjoyed sitting and discussing. As someone else said, he spent a lot of time re-teaching us what "good writing" entailed--which, even if you don't agree with it, at least provides more options for you to consider "good." He challenged us to think about and write about literary theory and lots of other fields of material that I hadn't seen much in an English class before.

The point is that I learned a lot in his class, and enjoyed it in the process.

My middle-school teachers were very boring for the most part. I had the same English/Literature teacher for all four years of high school, and I have no complaints about her. The other English teacher that my friends had was a little quirky, which was fun unless she was in one of her bad moods. Anyway, in high school, the main focus was literature and interpretation of that.

I guess, putting it into perspective, this means that I was pretty lucky in my experience.
 

Orangey

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However, I DID have a few critical theory classes that stretched my brain and helped me see how many different ways there are to approach a text. It may be that you simply don't think that being able to read in a variety of ways is important... or that you just don't get it. Whatever.

I'm almost sure that a critical theory class (at least the way I've experienced them) would only confirm risen's notion that English teachers are rigid and dogmatic. And I say this not as a criticism of critical theory, but rather because I get the feeling that this whole topic stems more from political conflicts than from problems with course mechanics or design.

And actually, it's not just a feeling that I'm getting. There is a trend in this thread involving those with known non-American-version-of-liberal political leanings having problems with their English teachers/profs/instructors. I think this is the result of one of three things:

1. The teacher/prof/instructor awarded lower grades to student X because his/her work reflected a different political ideology than the professor's (which, in the case of English classes, is usually very liberal in the contemporary American sense of the term).

2. The teacher/prof/instructor didn't present (or entertain) any political perspective as valid other than the one that he/she already held.

3. As a student, person X didn't want to hear any ideas other than the one that he/she had already set out to invest themselves in intellectually and emotionally, and therefore had a de-facto problem with the instructor that encouraged students to look at issues from a different (and probably polar opposite) political perspective.

Personally, I've never really seen any of #1 happening, but I've seen a little of #2 (depending on the instructor, of course), and a lot of #3. Of course, it could just be that people have problems with the overall design of their English courses, or the personalities of their particular instructors...if so, my post doesn't apply to you.
 

Cimarron

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It's true, I ran into the politics thing in that Rhetoric class, as we studied a lot of political writing (just speaking from my own experience, and then I'll stop talking). Of course the class had a slant, teacher and students mostly agreeing, but I tried not to let it bother me. Things worked out pretty well. Even if you don't like the political slant, I figure you can reapply what's taught to your own political preference. It's not like the politics dictates the literary theory itself, does it?
 

Jack Flak

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Try taking an advanced rhetoric, linguistics, or literature class if you are looking for intellectual stimulation - not freshman comp. Come on.
I don't think many people take English 101 because they want to.

The people who take the most "advanced" (hehe) English courses most likely don't have a problem with the lesser courses anyway. The systemic problem is that the courses everyone at the institution is required to take are uninteresting, and the teachers often lack the skills to handle people who are worlds above them in intellect, but have trouble following the "senseless" rules of writing in these classes.

As is obvious, I have a lifelong love affair with the run-on sentence, and if I want to use one, I don't need a damn SJ writing "run-on" in red ink.
 

Wild horses

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English teachers are victims of a really bad system.. English is not taught well and this is one of the reasons why many English speaking countries suck at learning foreign langs
 

Ism

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No, no, no!

I love all the English teachers that I've had within the past five years or so. Though, I was definitely lucky. All of them had to be qualified to teach where I am, and they're excellent.

Sucks for you guys, though. If they're not into it, they're not into it. Then again, that goes for anyone with a job they're not so in love with.
 

simulatedworld

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I don't think many people take English 101 because they want to.

The people who take the most "advanced" (hehe) English courses most likely don't have a problem with the lesser courses anyway. The systemic problem is that the courses everyone at the institution is required to take are uninteresting, and the teachers often lack the skills to handle people who are worlds above them in intellect, but have trouble following the "senseless" rules of writing in these classes.

As is obvious, I have a lifelong love affair with the run-on sentence, and if I want to use one, I don't need a damn SJ writing "run-on" in red ink.


Classic arrogant NTP! :)
 
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