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Being an ISTP in the education system sucks

Clegane

New member
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
178
MBTI Type
ISTP
Teachers tend to either be rigid SJs or way too abstract intuitives. I've spent my whole school life sleeping in the classroom. At college I dropped out to start working at manual labour and other shitty jobs.

I can't just memorize stuff if it doesn't make sense in my head. I really don't know if I struggled more with the SJ methods or the intuitive's. When intuitive teachers start digging into abstractions they might aswell have talked volapuk for what i could understand.

I soon came to this conclusion and started drawing and drumming with my hands since it felt impossible to listen to hours of concepts that didn't make sense (of course they made objectively sense, but the thought processes weren't digestible for how I worked). I needed all the elements, so that I could make sense of it on my own. They never started from the roots, and it just felt impossible to make sense of it.


Oh, do we want to talk about the relationship with classmates? I was perceived as a reptile. The only social things I remember doing were multiple brawls and doing probation work. Thank you inferior Fe plus Se.

P.S. Yes, this is just my experience and this is not valid for all the ISTPs.
 

Norrsken

self murderer
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
3,633
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
There's lots of roads to take nowadays that is more than the standard four year university experience. Being an ISTP, I think going to a vocational school to learn a much needed trade might benefit you. I'm constantly surprised by how much money people can make going that route, so not all hope is lost!
 

tony_goth

Pseudo-delusional Rebel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
225
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
487
Instinctual Variant
sx
My wife is ISTP and she was harassed at school and at college.

TW : verbal bullying


She really doesn't like abuse from peers, especially from authority, and told me "if I have a kid with you, I'll put him/her in a Montessori school, or in the worst case at home schooling".

Eventually at 18 she started to be dated very frequently. Apparently there are lots of guys who like unpleasant obese gothic chicks, because they like their physical appearence and their psychology. She still gets dated a few times a month, like "can I talk to you, beautiful lady ?".

She's currently 28.

"What is my point ?", you'll think.

"School has become disconnected from the rest of the world", I told her. I mean, she's been called "ugly" at school and "hot" outside the school.
 

Hive

hypersane
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
1,233
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I love school and the classroom environment and have no issue with teachers being "out there" as long as they're on subject.
 

SurrealisticSlumbers

📠girl in an 🎠world
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
681
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Apparently there are lots of guys who like unpleasant obese gothic chicks, because they like their physical appearence and their psychology. She still gets dated a few times a month, like "can I talk to you, beautiful lady ?".

I'm sure your wife is lovely. Who woulda guessed that men can... *gasp* be attracted to various female body shapes and sizes (and styles of clothing and makeup, i.e. goth). But they're shamed into keeping quiet about it when they find a bigger girl or an alternative girl cute or sexy.

"School has become disconnected from the rest of the world", I told her. I mean, she's been called "ugly" at school and "hot" outside the school.

That's the thing about Western society and the school system here. There's peer pressure from an early age to pick on and socially exclude people (esp. girls and women) who don't represent this idealized standard of beauty (thinness), yet the guys who are attracted to such girls within a peer setting, like school, learn to keep their attraction under wraps because they fear being mocked by their peers.

Same can go for being attracted to someone of a different race. Right before I got pulled out of public school (was subsequently homeschooled from the 2nd grade onwards until high school) I remember the bullying, and a lot of it centered on me being nice to a boy who happened to be black. I don't even remember my feelings being necessarily those of a crush, I just remember I usually tried to say good morning to him when I'd walk to my desk... He was a very closed-off kid, because his family were Jehovah's Witnesses who wouldn't allow their son to attend class parties, since they don't believe in observing pretty much any holiday. So I felt sorry for him, tried to be nice, and never heard the end of it from these bratty girls who got the wrong idea and thought I had a crush on him.
 

SurrealisticSlumbers

📠girl in an 🎠world
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
681
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To the OP, [MENTION=28497]Clegane[/MENTION], I'd say most people are at some point in life annoyed by a teacher or professor, especially if their teaching methods don't seem to be that great. You're in good company. If you really find the traditional classroom environment intolerable, but want to move beyond (like you said) manual labor jobs, I'd listen to what others here have advised you concerning exploring different skilled trades. Check out your local community college's catalog for different certification courses... there's so many you can take one at a time to just dabble in and see if it could be the right fit for you. I've seen everything from arc welding to locksmith training to floral arrangement. Might want to research the salary outlook of some of those jobs, and where geographically the demand is for the job in question, but there's lots of rather decent-paying jobs out there that don't require a 2 or 4-year degree. You can be done in under a year if you apply yourself, and your instructors aren't going to be too philosophical - their aim is to teach you how to do something.
 

tony_goth

Pseudo-delusional Rebel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
225
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
487
Instinctual Variant
sx
I'll add something : my wife thinks I'm pedagogical in an excessively heavy and repetitive way - especially for security and financial affairs - ; and many people really hate that, especially when they have an extremely high IQ, of if they belong to the Reactive ETypes (4,6,8) or belong to the autistic spectrum.

Like "stop repeating that, I understood already" (her IQ is 135+). "You're right. You understood. But, you might not have learned actually. Am I teaching you something, or entertaining you ?"

But the best teachers I knew did the same thing. I may act like a teacher (and sometimes I did professionally), even if I'm not scholarly. I just think teachers teach like if they were audio books or comedians. The best teachers may not be geniuses, they're just repetitive and loud in a wisely manner. A military teacher said : "I'm excessively repetitive, but I prefer". Courses are not entertainment.

But I'm a really average student, because my way of reading is "understand most, learn least".

And my wife is an extremely poor listener (not "hearer" but "listener"), even worse than me. 8sp ETypes are on average the very worst listeners on the whole Enneagram, and all 8sp people I've known or seen were ISTJ's mostly, and ISTP's less commonly.

But importantly, that does not mean being a poor listener is inherently a defect ; there are situations when "not listening" (or very selectively) might save your life. I mean, do bouncers and British Queen's guards listen very much ? I mean is listening part of their job ? They're in extremely noisy environments and are here basically to... wait, watch, hear, rarely "listen", and more rarely "do" anything.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Soon there will be schools that will cater to your needs as AI advances. The problem always starts back home, mostly the caregivers at hand and the skill that they lack and the unmet needs that you required during that time.
 

tony_goth

Pseudo-delusional Rebel
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
225
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
487
Instinctual Variant
sx
Soon there will be schools that will cater to your needs as AI advances.

As AI advances, schools will teach students progamming.

Actually, the principles of AI are simple. You just have to know how neural networks, backpropagation, automatic classification, genetic algorithms, shortest path heuristics, and such, work.

Programming itself is not really "difficult", but very long. Professional programming is copying and modifying algorithms really. No need to be a genius for this.

In the world of programming there are things more difficult than AI itself, such as security-related programming, system programming, 3D graphics programming, etc. (for example, OpenGL programming is a massive nightmare)

Programming can be taught to 10-year-olds easily, as long as you make them know how programming works, and they're ready for learning in an autonomous way. But you learn to program mostly by yourself, and it's everything unlike traditional teaching.

The problem always starts back home, mostly the caregivers at hand and the skill that they lack and the unmet needs that you required during that time.

It's an evil for a good. Unskilled caregivers may produce skilled caregivers that might not repeat the caregiving-related mistakes, especially if it did hurt hard at some point.

Being a rational rebel (not emotional) means your conscience does not fit your authorities. One of these feels "good" and the other feels "bad". And "rebels" who manage to keep a "good" conscience will probably have the intentions of being caregivers who fit their own conscience.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,567
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
school tends to be a little more oriented towards "J" or "type A" personalities. It has nothing to do with how intelligent or insightful students are, but rather with how well students adapt to the structure and system, and in many cases it serves to make the smartest students feel stupid or alienated from school and academia.
 

Alexdesantis

New member
Joined
Mar 15, 2022
Messages
1
MBTI Type
Brig
Enneagram
2
My personality type is another one, but my sister is an ISTP, and she also has problems at school. They are not "problems" indeed, but simply many things bother her. For instance, all around her ask for "more activity", but she is as she is, and it's all. Fortunately, she found https://uk.edubirdie.com/speech-writing-service and managed to prepare herself for a speech-writing that her class had as homework. I was worried for her because it is quite difficult for an ISTP to stand in front of the classroom and give a speech. Edubirdie provided her not only material but moral encouragement to succeed, too. So I think that everything that counts for an ISTP is spiritual support.
 
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Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,567
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
in other words, school isn't really designed with exceptionally intelligent students in mind. it's designed for the majority who fit the norm to learn how to be cooperative worker bees.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
I honestly wouldn't have thought that ISTPs would have a hard time.
 
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