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Experiences in Academia/Research (Particularly for xNTPs)

lunalum

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Okay, so I am hoping to hear from some experiences of those who are in grad school or are already have an academic or research career and how their type plays into it (THIS IS OPEN TO RESPONSES FROM ALL TYPES, ALSO NON-ACADEMICS WITH CAREER FINDING KNOW-HOW WELCOME TOO). I'm a second-year master's student in psychology (neuroscience direction). I want to continue on to a Ph.D. because I am obsessed with the field and there are just so many things within it. But I'm afraid that is playing into my downfall. The idea of a masters is to gain mastery in a thing, and as a presumed INTP I can perseverate on a thing for a good long while but at the same time, I can't help but feel trapped by it. I can't for the life of me ever feel settled on my thesis.

I don't know that I want a strictly academic career. I want to study what I am interested in and be able to then make something of it. Ideally, I want to be a writer and launch some sort of media like a youtube channel and then maybe a more tech startup. And I have been relying on school for the structure I need to keep my focus. But do I really want to study one thing for 6 more years as an end to a means to be able to then work upon many things? Would that even work? And also the more my direction goes towards the "hard sciences" the more intuition, in general, seems unvalued. I mean, just being in a research-focused degree, I feel like people look at me like I have three heads when I make the basic assertion that intuition has a place in the scientific method. Is this really an environment that will help me towards any of my schemes? I was just hoping the experience would be a bit more... extraverted-intuitive friendly than it has been so far.

I've been just chugging along to finish my BA and get my MA for the last four years and now with a minor apocalypse in play, I've been looking at this situation a little more critically. And let that all too familiar feeling of entrapment to reign. I just want to do all the things :cry:

So there's a brief cap of my story. What about yours?
 

Tina&Jane

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I can definitely relate to that feeling of entrapment that you're describing--it can be a scary thing to try and narrow down your focus to studying one thing when it seems like there are so many different options out there. I tend cycle through different areas of interest (but almost all are clustered around the social sciences), so when I was an undergrad trying to choose a major I actually appreciated all those general requirements they force you to take. I never identified with all that "follow your passion" stuff, so when I ultimately settled on a major and a career path I was looking for something that I was reasonably interested in, aligned with what I was good at, would support me financially, and also allow me to continue to explore my other interests outside of work. It's held up pretty well so far--I work in education and while it can be very stressful and a lot of the time that stress ends up bleeding into my life outside of work (this also ties into my personality though--I tend to be harder on myself, have high standards, and am prone to anxiety), but overall the job itself is stable and I don't think I would have much trouble finding another position if I wanted to move. Sometimes I do wish I had a little more flexibility because my field is very specialized (school psychology) and I'm really tied to it unless I get additional certifications or degrees. I'm contrasting this with other mental health professionals like social workers, who have a little more flexibility with the type of environment they can work in (schools, agencies, nonprofits, private practice, etc.) and the focus of that work (micro vs macro).

I don't know that I want a strictly academic career. I want to study what I am interested in and be able to then make something of it. Ideally, I want to be a writer and launch some sort of media like a youtube channel and then maybe a more tech startup.

What kind of work are you hoping to do with the startup and youtube channel? Would it be related to psychology/neuroscience? The only thing with the PhD is again the specialization and the significant amount of time you're going to be devoting to one subject. If you're hoping to tie that subject into your future ambitions, I would say that it might be a good step to take, but if you're hoping to explore other interests with youtube and the startup, it might not be worth it in the end.
 

lunalum

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I struggled with the idea of going into school psychology for a while. I think I would be very good at it and there is a high demand. But it seems so darn specialized. I'm glad it is working for you for the most part.

What kind of work are you hoping to do with the startup and youtube channel? Would it be related to psychology/neuroscience? The only thing with the Ph.D. is again the specialization and the significant amount of time you're going to be devoting to one subject. If you're hoping to tie that subject into your future ambitions, I would say that it might be a good step to take, but if you're hoping to explore other interests with youtube and the startup, it might not be worth it in the end.

So yeah, I am imagining the youtube channel and startup tying into psychology. Not sure how closely yet. Though I do anticipate that the psychology or neuroscience focus of the channel would be a broad one, while the Ph.D. will be the opposite of that. And of course, I might scrap the psychology focus and want to do something entirely different with the channel. In that case... at least I get to change my name to Dr. Luna on here? :happy2: I'm just not quite sure where to start if I stop with my master's. How do I make the case, without the snazzy letters by my name, to take my writing seriously? I won't be considered a real psychologist until I spend 6 years on a thing that might not even be relevant? This is all becoming so convoluted. :shrug:
 

Tina&Jane

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I'm just not quite sure where to start if I stop with my master's. How do I make the case, without the snazzy letters by my name, to take my writing seriously? I won't be considered a real psychologist until I spend 6 years on a thing that might not even be relevant? This is all becoming so convoluted. :shrug:

This is very true, but I honestly hate the mentality that having a certain degree after your name means that your ideas are automatically more worthwhile than those of someone who doesn't, or that you're a better practitioner, researcher, etc. I understand where it comes from, because having a PhD implies that you've put a considerable amount of time and effort into becoming an expert in your field, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is practicing ethically or isn't taking advantage of the inherent clout that degree holds in order to bend rules. I've run across some PhD level psychologists that have engaged in some questionable practices related to psychological testing, including using outdated tests, using tests that are inappropriate for the kid's age, and diagnosing kids using terms that aren't present in the DSM, ICD, or in research. I've come to think that those who do this feel like their degree allows them some amount of opaqueness in practice because others might trust them more easily and/or might feel intimidated, which makes questioning of their methods less likely.

I don't think you should feel like you're excluded from writing about psychology or neuroscience just because you don't have a PhD, but I would say that you should always be upfront about your credentials, the experiences you've had in the field, and the limitations of your knowledge, i.e. if you don't know something or don't have experience with it, be honest about it rather than trying to bullshit people. You might not have the same depth of knowledge or experience as someone with a PhD, but I don't believe that it should keep you from writing within the bounds of your own knowledge and experience if it's something you want to do. While a PhD may help you "cut corners" when it comes to earning others' respect, it can still be earned if you present yourself honestly and practice ethically, even if it takes a little longer to get there.
 

Jaq

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[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

You might like this thread.
 

ygolo

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I struggle with school mainly because I get distracted easily. Have been that way for a long time. I love to learn, but I have way too many interests. The latest round was leaving my phd to work for a couple of startups, and just coming back.

Again, I love to learn. I love to share what I learn, like a kid, even at my older age. Many people find that last part annoying over the years. The fact that people find it annoying has lead to a habit of stifling myself, which now makes it difficult to explain the more complex things one has to for an academic career.

The combination of my meandering nature, and shyness in explaining myself has led to less than optimal success in my academic endeavors. I am hoping perseverance and experience will make up for it.
 

Pionart

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Intuition in the scientific method? That's how hypotheses are formed. The typical approach is to speculate until you have something you want to test, then find out through the facts whether the theory works or not.

The Sensory approach would be to go out and get data, then try and determine what the data is "saying".

--

Psychology tends to be quite SFJ heavy. I was looking through neuroscience textbooks last year and trying to determine the types of the authors; one was a clear ISFJ, but a couple seemed to be NTs. One maybe STJ. I would think neuroscience would be quite NT friendly, at least compared with the other fields within psychology. Dario Nardi does work in neuroscience of personality, and he's INTJ.

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I had considered going into study for psychology, and going the PhD route, but I figured, what would be the point of 10 years of study, just to essentially do work that I'm already doing? I'd get paid for it, sure, but I don't value money to a high degree, and being in academia would mean I would have to shift the focus of my research into what is "academically acceptable". So I scrapped that idea.

--

Academia in general is quite a misguided, prideful enterprise. I would generally advise making your own way in the way that feels right to you. It would feel like the study you have done was somewhat wasted, and maybe that is true, but you have to go with what your "intuition" is telling you in this regard. Don't assume you have to go through with the academia venture, but still, give it some more thought.

--

There is so much more to life than study and work, which get pushed on us so hard. If only survival were easier without pay, and we could move as the spirit moved us, for better! Unfortunately things are not constructed to allow for such freedoms, and surely the majority would not make proper use of the opportunity. But for those of us who seek, whether or not you be one of them, there should be some kind of safety net and spring board.
 

lunalum

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Intuition in the scientific method? That's how hypotheses are formed. The typical approach is to speculate until you have something you want to test, then find out through the facts whether the theory works or not.

The Sensory approach would be to go out and get data, then try and determine what the data is "saying".

--

Psychology tends to be quite SFJ heavy. I was looking through neuroscience textbooks last year and trying to determine the types of the authors; one was a clear ISFJ, but a couple seemed to be NTs. One maybe STJ. I would think neuroscience would be quite NT friendly, at least compared with the other fields within psychology. Dario Nardi does work in neuroscience of personality, and he's INTJ.

Yeah, I've been holding my hope up that with a PhD program in neuroscience that I get to connect with similar people and have the chance to really be innovative.

I had considered going into study for psychology, and going the PhD route, but I figured, what would be the point of 10 years of study, just to essentially do work that I'm already doing? I'd get paid for it, sure, but I don't value money to a high degree, and being in academia would mean I would have to shift the focus of my research into what is "academically acceptable". So I scrapped that idea.

Some of my frustration right now is that my master's thesis has to be "academically acceptable." But yeah I've just been putting up with it so far because it won't always have to be this way. I do want to be able to be paid for what I do and live comfortably,

Academia in general is quite a misguided, prideful enterprise. I would generally advise making your own way in the way that feels right to you. It would feel like the study you have done was somewhat wasted, and maybe that is true, but you have to go with what your "intuition" is telling you in this regard. Don't assume you have to go through with the academia venture, but still, give it some more thought.

Definitely will be giving this more thought. Thank you. I do want to try just launching into what I want to do without the degrees, but it's more complicated than that...

--

There is so much more to life than study and work, which get pushed on us so hard. If only survival were easier without pay, and we could move as the spirit moved us, for better! Unfortunately things are not constructed to allow for such freedoms, and surely the majority would not make proper use of the opportunity. But for those of us who seek, whether or not you be one of them, there should be some kind of safety net and spring board.

This is exactly it. Without the safety net, it's going to be very difficult to just launch into the things. I came back to school after a while in part because I missed the excitement and learning, but also for the safety net... the grants and loans to keep you going. It was a real rough life before that. I am running into a rare opportunity soon for about a month where I can have my basic needs met and not have to do schoolwork or a summer job. Now I just need to decide what to do with it.
 

Pionart

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Yeah, I've been holding my hope up that with a PhD program in neuroscience that I get to connect with similar people and have the chance to really be innovative.



Some of my frustration right now is that my master's thesis has to be "academically acceptable." But yeah I've just been putting up with it so far because it won't always have to be this way. I do want to be able to be paid for what I do and live comfortably,



Definitely will be giving this more thought. Thank you. I do want to try just launching into what I want to do without the degrees, but it's more complicated than that...

--



This is exactly it. Without the safety net, it's going to be very difficult to just launch into the things. I came back to school after a while in part because I missed the excitement and learning, but also for the safety net... the grants and loans to keep you going. It was a real rough life before that. I am running into a rare opportunity soon for about a month where I can have my basic needs met and not have to do schoolwork or a summer job. Now I just need to decide what to do with it.

I personally just live with my mum and go off government payments. I got a bachelors but I don't know if I can even do anything with it.

I agree that learning is good, but it shouldn't cost so much. I mean, in Australia it's pretty cheap enough, but I've heard in America it gets kinda ridiculous.

I've heard that it takes a few years into your professorship before you can really do your own research. I heard that from Jordan Peterson who made a lecture on the topic. I don't know if JP is your kinda guy but I suspect he isn't. Still could be informative though.

But yeah good luck with all you do, and remember that life is more than making a paycheck. Keep your options open, because the Lord provides in ways that we can't foresee.
 

JAVO

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[MENTION=5857]lunalum[/MENTION] I'll tell you my story in case you find anything useful in it. I did a BA in psych, although at graduation I literally heard a few people express surprise. They thought I was a computer science or biology major apparently, based on where and who I associated with. By my senior year, I was bored with academics, and I didn't like the restrictions on life I'd have for the next six years. I wasn't even sure if I wanted to do a PhD in cognitive, social, clinical, or neuro- psych, or maybe even medical school. With some focused job searching, I was able to get in direct contact with the manager of the diagnostic neurophysiology lab at the large university hospital. It turned out that my search was well-timed because they were opening a new inpatient unit, and they would be hiring at least five new people at entry level (assuming a solid science education). It was interesting work, but I realized that I enjoyed the theoretical aspects and the computer-related tasks more than being puked on by patients or watching squiggly lines for certain patterns all day. :wink:

I started working on an independent study programming course, and soon there was an entry level programmer job open at the hospital. After five years of doing that and moving on to another employer, I decided to explore the PhD in psychology option with my main interest being in social cognitive psychology. The start of that interest, which may have faded within a few months, was then sparked into a forest fire by a very intriguing article I happened across. While researching the authors' other work, I discovered that one of them was now teaching near me, and at one of the top programs. I struck up an email correspondence, and offered to help with research, including any software development. We seemed to have very similar perspectives about things, and it was like I was writing to a mind clone of myself. It seemed that if I applied and did at least acceptable, I'd get into the program based on my interest level and acquaintance with that professor. She investigated that possibility, but the other faculty were not amenable to that, and I was not accepted into the program. I was accepted to a nontraditional distance/online learning MA/PhD program a year later, but I didn't stay with it beyond one semester. I still might go back for psych some day, but I also have tech startup ideas.
 

Red Memories

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Hello,

I will introduce myself as the college academic who has not obtained a bachelor's degree yet, yet has 60+ credits in the most random of shit because almost every semester I changed my major.
1. Social Work
2. Business
3. English
4. Psychology
dropped out, came back now to get an AAS in Administrative Specialization. Where half of my random credits are just such: random. Every new shiny thing looked so fun and yet my anxiety talked me out of almost every single thing. What if I hate it? I probably cannot emotionally handle it. I can't do statistics well. etc.
Also congrats on Psychology masters school, I hear it is quite competitive and hard to get into. Part of the reason I ended up subsiding from the endeavor since I am so bad at "research" and statistics. It was never my thing. I absolutely loved my English major classes but I do NOT want a career in academia so I'd be preparing myself for a starving artist life.

I would say try to think of it this way...
1. if you are trapped, the pay is damn good for entrapment. You can afford to take a vacation where you can be less trapped!
2. if you truly love something, you'll learn something new from experience all the time, so you'll never be truly "trapped"
3. You can absolutely always go back and expand on new things. You are not limited to having 1 skillset the rest of your life!

I am not sure any of this helps you but... Good luck!!!!! :hug:
 
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I would like to share my opinion and experience on business major research, which may be under the social science research category,like psychology. These are my review, opinion on the research and some of my university classmate who did their research also. I also worked in a subsidiary of multinational market research company, which is headquartered in the U.S. This gave me the chance to witness closely how they conduct a research as a company.
A norm in the academic environment for research paper in the university I studied at is as a requirement for conferral of first degree. This will be defended in front of testing lecturers. This is usually taken near the end of the study. Only in a successful defense of the research paper, a first degree will be conferred.
The quality of the Data collection process and result; company and student comparison
Data collection is the most sophisticated and complicated, part of the research. I would like to compare data collections carried out by research company that I worked for and student of university I studied at. To perform the data collection by distributing questionnaire, they task interviewers. They make an agreement with professional interviewers that they will work as associates , who will only get paid based on questionnaire that pass quality assurance. Doing so, Their purpose is to push the associate interviewers to work honestly; not reporting a fake questionnaire responses or the submitted questionnaire by interviewers will be turned down and they won't get their pay as a consequence of rejection. I was told by one of my bosses the company will even black list the interviewers who report questionnaire filled with response but it turns out after quality assurance process they are actually fake respondent. To encourage participation on the survey, The respondents are usually given away a small gift (like a Mug) after they participate in the survey. To check the quality of the filled questionnaire which are then submitted by interviewers, officers called field supervisor check randomly the respondents by calling them by phone to confirm whether it is indeed they themselves who have given response. The phone number of respondent must be inquired in the questionnaire in order to do so. It is important to underscore that The personnel who check the quality is different professionals with the interviewers, who look for respondents on the field. To be allowed to conduct the survey on the field, a permit from local government entity like must be obtained prior to survey. They hire another officer that deals with the matter that makes sure that the permit is obtained. During my three months short tenure, I was hired as the recruiter who recruit the field workers: like interviewers. After assured data is collected in the questionnaires, the data is subsequently inputted into to a computer for further analysis. They have another paid personnel : data entry to carry the job out. Paying the interviewers, and salaries of the officers related to it is considerably costly part of this data collection.
This is different with what I observed with my classmates back in University before I joined the company. They are not able to assure the quality of the data as the company are. While they are supposed to find respondents who are willing to participate in their survey, Some of them even confessed they fill some of their questionnaire on their own. But, I have heard my lecturer said that Statistics works in GIGO (Garbage in Garbage Out) principle and I agree with him. GIGO would loosely be interpreted as When the data collected are a low in quality as I observe during my study, the subsequent analysis, presentation, interpretation, etc of it will follow. But if data is collected with extreme care like the company I used to work for, we can plausibly expect any following statistical treatment will also follow.

Academic cheat: claiming outsourced statistical analysis work result as if it was the student's own
When the number of observed data are too many as it is always so, researcher student need to be able to operate statistical software, Since it is too cumbersome and time consuming to process a lot of data manually. Many small business provides the statistical analysis service and I notice they are some located nearby campus. This opens the opportunity for students who may be lack of statistical software operating skill to use their professional service to process their data. I have a friend who open the business after he graduated from statistics major. I was told that even some doctoral degrees students use their services, probably Since the doctoral degree students may not be well versed in operating the software also. This is the problem of academic cheating that I spot: Claiming statistical analysis result as student -researcher own work while they actually have others do it for them yet their academic mark is assessed based on it. In my view, they are just the "short cut" students who wants a degree without willingness to endure the hard, tedious, and cumbersome work of research.It seems that even the university cannot control the practice and just let it happen.
Dillematic between Academic Integrity and job
This is a dillematic problem. On the one hand statistics consultant is an entrepreneurial work that should be welcomed. They operate somewhat similar to market research company, in business perspective. The difference may be in client and range of service. Market research company 's client are usually large businesses while the statistical consultant serve smaller niche: student researcher. Another difference is the range of service. As far as I know, statistical consultant do not collect data by distributing questionnaire like what market research company do. Imagine if a regulator forbade their operation, for the sake of defending academic integrity, they would of course lose their job, which would create unemployment problem.
But on the other hand, The university that keep producing graduates like them might be soon or later lose their good reputation. Students may graduate and get their degree but will possess little or even no research skill as a result of it.

Student-researcher usually fund their research final assignment themselves
if the social science research conducted in the academic environment I was at was so good, they should be able to find at least a party who is willing to finance it or sell it to parties that need it like how the marketing research companies run their business. They find companies who purchases their research. The reason why is that because the findings of the research must be useful and helpful for their clients businesses that to the extent to which the parties should be willing to pay for. But I don’t find any practice of it yet, AFAIK. I strongly discourage myself to finance social science research by spending money from my own pocket, since the research result won't be useful for me as an individual anyway apart from fulfilling an academic requirement. Sometimes I think, it is the student - researcher is the one that is supposed be paid for because of the research undertaking.
Company as Researcher Vs Student as researcher
In the company, the research is conducted as a team work. In my view, the sole researcher is the company, an organization; not an individual person. Individual person may perform only one role: like field data collector associate (interviewers), that one who are tasked to find and having interview session with respondents on the field. One man's energy is not sufficient to conduct such a large scale research.


Hesitant to Continue to Next Degree
These are also the of academic reasons why I am hesitant to continue my study to a master degree in any social science field especially when research needs data collection by survey although the opportunity is open for me as I hold a first degree that should make me eligible.

My research
My research was in capital market. I did not collect data by distributing questionnaire as most of marketing students do theirs. I purchased historical stock price data from Indonesian stock exchange. The historical stock price data is classified as secondary data that may have been collected also in the past for other research purpose while Data that is collected by marketing research company described above is classified as primary data, which are usually collected to specifically answer a novel research question. I was willing to study statistical software to analyze the data although I didn't really enjoy it. I pushed myself to. I refrained from having statistical bureau consultant analyze it for me although my mother told me to. I learnt how to process data using software only time-series and a non parametric hyphotesis testing in Minitab, that was directly related to my research topic.

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Although A student may understand theoretically how to do the marketing research , They, as individual, still will not be able to carry it out as theorized in the actuality. They may not be able conduct the field data collections on their own as an individual since:1 the needed data may be too many; they may need to task it to interviewer like market research company while they may not have a sufficient fund to recruit and pay the field data collectors as the research company do.
The social sciences research is an expensive empirical method to gather scientific knowledge. It is probably feasibly executable correctly only by a company. Individual won't be able to do it. May be Because the research price is high, no wonder that scientific knowledge should be relatively slow in advancement. In addition, dissemination of new knowledge might be slower,since party who have the right to publish it, like project owner, who finance the research may be unwilling to publish it, keeping it their own.
 
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I have attached a link to one of the statistical consultant that offers statistical analysis paid service to student-researcher, that I mentioned above just to give clearer idea what they are like, where we can find them. Btw, their site is still written in Indonesian language. You can use google to translate any Indonesian writing into English.
 
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