BlahBlahNounBlah
New member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,458
- MBTI Type
- ENTP
- Enneagram
- 7w6
INFJs love a needy ENTP. It puts everything in perspective for us - that we reign supremely.
INFJs love a needy ENTP. It puts everything in perspective for us - that we reign supremely.
Aaah but what do you do with those thoughts? Do you keep 'em inside, and be the humbug that wants to come out and play? Or do you go right out and get needy?
INFJs love a needy ENTP. It puts everything in perspective for us - that we reign supremely.
Here's my interpretation of what you said:
ENTP: "Man, geez, I'm sorry. I could undo this so that we could go back to the way things were. What do I need to do to get us there?"
My point is that there's no sincere apology here. It's driven from more of a "What do I have to do to get you to stop moping, crying, whining, nagging?"
As an INFJ, if I got this kind of manipulative apology it would 1) REALLY hurt 2) I'd feel coerced into forcing myself to move on because I'd be afraid of further angering/irritating them and causing more damage to the relationship. I'd feel very unloved. That's for sure.
Synarch said:I keep them inside until I start to freak out then I go and gush them all over. I don't know how other ENTP's are but I am always afraid of being hurt. I think I like INFJ/INTJ's because they are solid and seem to accept my fractiousness as long as I do not try to destabilize them with my emotions by making unfair demands.
This fear is the main reason for my distance. I am insensitive because I am sensitive.
I don't think I'd take that sort of statement badly, but then maybe I've gotten to know ENTP's too well by now, so wouldn't take it personally because I don't think it's meant as such. Actually I think this might be why I tend to prefer NT's; I guess I don't take their desire to move forward/have an 'action plan' that poorly, because when I'm really down and out, I want both a way out of it - i.e. 'what do I need to get us there'? - and I also want the pure understanding/acknowledgment for what and how I'm feeling, which in my experience NT's can be just as compassionate with as NF's. I think there's a huge difference between how a mature ENTP/NT might handle the moping/crying/general unhappiness - as they can have a large capacity for emotional understanding and support - and how any more insensitive person (who could in fact be an F) might just treat my feelings lightly and blow them off.
ha, it's funny how much I tend to relate to ENTP's. Anyway, like you, I tend to keep things inside - wanting to either keep them at bay and sort them out on my own, or out of fear they might be misunderstood - but eventually they must be released. I also have the fear, although at times think it isn't so much fear as simply what I've learned over time, which is that not that many people can really identify with me, and vice versa - so hence I keep it in. But unlike you I don't externalize insensitivity because of my sensitivity (although my acquiring a more cynical outlook of people/humanity has in the past been the crutch I've used to shield myself and make myself feel stronger).
Interesting.
I think ENTP's are likely to manipulate in a fairly superficial and instrumental fashion, which is unlikely to cause a crisis of conscience. Like, "Let me use my Fe powers to smooth things over and we can both be happy."
Whereas I can see an INFJ agonizing over a manipulation.
Very True- I confessed about the master plan for Project Get Dog after hubby and dog were bonded. That and like Dr. Doom and James Bond villians, I must share my master plan with the worthy listener,lol.
Glad to hear all that. This is another case where people misunderstand F vs. T. F does not mean Feeling, only evaluation. T does not simply mean Thinking but also determining "what is". Sometimes evaluation (whether something is fair/unfair, agreeable/disagreeable) is less helpful than trying to understand without presuming to RELATE or sympathize.
I would refrain from externalizing insensitivity but I just hate feeling weak and pitied. If I can't be collected in reality, I want to appear collected.
ha, it's funny how much I tend to relate to ENTP's. Anyway, like you, I tend to keep things inside - wanting to either keep them at bay and sort them out on my own, or out of fear they might be misunderstood - but eventually they must be released. I also have the fear, although at times think it isn't so much fear as simply what I've learned over time, which is that not that many people can really identify with me, and vice versa - so hence I keep it in. But unlike you I don't externalize insensitivity because of my sensitivity (although my acquiring a more cynical outlook of people/humanity has in the past been the crutch I've used to shield myself and make myself feel stronger).
I think also that attempting to relate and empathize can keep people from digging into the root of the problem. I've noticed that many people mobilize very quickly without taking time to weigh what might be really going on with someone. Also, empathy can sometimes result in this tendency where people are not really listening or being attentive because they can feel like they already know how I feel and what I need to feel better. For example, sometimes I want to vent more than I want someone to kiss my booboos.
I don't think I'd take that sort of statement badly, but then maybe I've gotten to know ENTP's too well by now, so wouldn't take it personally because I don't think it's meant as such.
On a completely different note. I'm amazed at how well so many people here are able to explain their feelings in MBTI terminology. I, despite being semi-into MBTI for almost two years feel limited to using everyday language or hypothetical/real life examples to get my point across.
Again, I agree with you. Now that I've caught on to how I relate to ENTPs, it's helped me out a lot. For example, a year ago, had I begun this conversation with Syn, I would have felt like he was impatient in his responses and, out of feeling intimidated, I'd decided to no longer post on this thread (and probably avoid him in other threads too).
Sad huh?
And yes re. people who tend not to be active listeners, and who tend to listen to only particular phrases that they might relate to (or think they relate to) and filtering everything else out. And yeah, I think there will always be people who tend to apply their own feelings to your situation, when you're not feeling what they would feel. I am not sure that that's related to empathy, though.
I think the venting thing might be more Fe-related - just a need to purge yourself of your feelings, and then feeling quite a lot better by the simple act of purging and letting it loose from yourself, letting it out of your cage. For me, it's like a pressure buildup...it's like I HAVE to let it out at some point, I just can't keep it to myself. Part of the act of 'healing' can be the act of letting it go...so it no longer has a hold on me.
when i'm feeling poorly all i WANT is holistic relating. i want F accepting, i want harmony, glowing, enthusiasm, excitement, energy, and most of all INSPIRATION.
...and try to fucking solve my own problems. i do not have quite the same experience as a 4w5 so when i become imbalanced and shift wholly into 4 mode i don't know how to handle it and have terrible recurring flare-ups.
Fe needs solidity, confidence, anchorage, and some Ti logic to get it on the right storyline and clear away the noise.
Where I can "manipulate" is via authenticity and directness. You guys are busy playing games with each other, and being indirect. I step up, insert a direct, honest, authentic, blunt ass opinion that has no self interest. My entps will listen as they understand innately I am not playing the game and that I have a view they lack. Thus I-and the folks I care for-can win. Still manipulation.
But once the target understands the game-the ENTP game of masks-the game is up correct? If I meet a new ENTP, understand the game, understand myself, then the game cannot be played effectively. They form a mask, I modify to counter, they get a new mask, I remodify. I can play for Ne fun, but I understand there is a game under the play.
1. both EXTPs will sometimes employ pure tert Fe driven with a game plan. ESTPs are NOT clever enough to know they have been found out. ENTPs very rarely try this on me, but will do it to others. However both are very effective on Fe doms and Auxs. It "feels" sleazy to me and nonauthentic so is transparent but can work really well on others.
3. The confused ENTP Fe who cant figure out what they want and is partially sincere and really does care, yet is still playing a game, yet feels guilty about the game. These folks can get me.
I dont notice INFJs trying to manipulate me. I think they try and then just give up. My favorite thing to do to my favorite INFJ is say terribly shocking things to him and make him laugh. Fe has a hard time with Te style locker room humor coming from the mouth of a sweet enfp. Then we argue a lot. He doesnt seem very effective with the INTPs/STJs he works with-but he has the ear of one ENTP interestingly.
Where I can "manipulate" is via authenticity and directness. You guys are busy playing games with each other, and being indirect. I step up, insert a direct, honest, authentic, blunt ass opinion that has no self interest. My entps will listen as they understand innately I am not playing the game and that I have a view they lack. Thus I-and the folks I care for-can win. Still manipulation.
Final answer-who are you trying to manipulate?
As for method-perhaps this is context dependent.
In an social organization that is Te dominant, a Te approach is routine and thus the expected norm.
In a social organization where Fe indirectness is the norm, especially tert Fe, Te is not the norm.
By recognizing this differential and then using Te/Fi at strategic points, you have turned the combination of directness/authenticity into a tool. (the other ENFPs are going to tell me I am evil). I can deploy my direct, non self focused opinion to the strategic person-an ENTP/INTJ/ENFP-at the right time and substantially alter the course of action on a global corporate level.
Second-I actually do have a preferential outcome typically. Not one concrete choice but a multitude of solutions that will address equally the problem. I suppose I do have a hidden agenda. I want the organization to be molded into a form that is efficient, effective, and successful and thus generates the least amount of stress and unhappiness possible for my folks. However since it is not overtly self serving-although the psychological implications are interesting to explore-having this agenda is not held against me by the decision maker.