Well, I think INFJs are extremely conscious of discrepancies between what people say and what they do. At first it may be more of a feeling of disquiet or nervousness, not quite being able to put your finger on it; later it becomes a lot more obvious, perhaps when you're at that "putting the big picture together" stage.
It's said that both INTJs and INFJs have this "ability" to see through people and that this ability of them may even disturb people around them.
I'm curious as to what you mean by "logical oddities in what they say or write." Are you also talking about some kind of statement/action discrepancy, or do mean more failures in logic?
Quite a few type descriptions say something like this: "Fellow workers of INTJs often feel as if the INTJ can see right through them, and finds them wanting. This tendency of people to feel transparent in the presence of the INTJ often result in relationships which have psychological distance."
INTJs being good lie detectors doesn't necessarily equate to seeing through people.
What's the difference, really? I would understand the transparency mentioned in the quote as a synonym for them feeling being read.
You may sense when people tell lies sometimes but when it comes to emotions, the inability to read and see through people is a gulf.
For me I agree with other INFJs that I have a track-record for each person in my head, I remember little incidences and if there are too many negative incidences that make me distrust the person they will go on my "To be watched" list or if necessary on the "Shit list". It might seem like a very judgmental way of dealing with people but I pick up these discrepancies just naturally, it's actually a very rational process, a bit like a maths equation, "someone not keeping their word + someone talking badly about others + someone lieing = person not to be trusted".
I am not sure I can always immediately see through a person. However I have sometimes met people where from the very first moment I have felt that they are sincere and trustworthy and I tend to be right in the long run, I can't remember any of these people ever turning out to be crooks.
I can see that quite a few have challenged the suggestion that INTJs could excell in reading people. Well, the MBTI also suggests that INTJs have Fi as their tertiary preference yet that's sometimes not that easy to believe when reading these forums
Quite a few type descriptions say something like this: "Fellow workers of INTJs often feel as if the INTJ can see right through them, and finds them wanting. This tendency of people to feel transparent in the presence of the INTJ often result in relationships which have psychological distance." On the other hand, it might actually sound more logical that INTPs could be even better equipped for such reading.
I am not writing here to judge who does or doesn't have this ability. I am just curious to read any comments regarding it now that I sense some of it in me as well.
I think some of this has to do with very strongly developed Ni + developed Fi, which would be a reason INTJs get better at it as they become older. Ni excels at wading through complexity, ambiguity and forming perceptions. Human behavior and reactions are extremely complex. So, with enough experience, I think an INTJ can be pretty good at reading people. I've also read that Ni can help to serve as a "rough approximation" for feeling judgement. I know exactly what this means because I experience it all the time but have a hard time explaining it.
Sounds reasonable and I can relate to that.
One thing not yet mentioned is the INTJs' ability to learn or comprehend basically anything they happen to be interested in. Now, if there is an INTJ who for whatever reason has a need to develop skills like understanding people, why wouldn't he/she be able to learn that as well?
One other thought. At a young age, I received some advice. "Put yourself in the other person's shoes." It is advice which is perfectly tailored for someone who prefers Fi. So, I personally have done that for years. At first, I would think "what would I do, think or feel if I were them." That only gets you so far though because as an INTJ, which is a relatively rare type of person, you're surrounded by SJs and SPs and you think so completely differently than so many other people. I ran into a wall because I discovered that others were so different than me. Then I discovered MBTI. I began to add into the equation (as one input or variable), what would I think if I were them and I were an ISTJ, some kind of NT, INFP, or SP, or Si, or Te dom, or whatever. It helped. This was useful even if the information is imprecise, it's difficult to type people accurately, etc. It's not the equivalent of having Fi or Fe much higher up in the stack, but it's a way of compensating. Then, you can ask people directly what they think or you can ask what others who know them well believe they think or are feeling, or ask them if they believe your perceptions seem valid. It's gathering all these different data points and forming a perception. The desire to form an understanding of the situation drives you to look at these data points and come to some sort of insight or conclusion as to what is going on.
SilkRoad said:I could be wrong, but I very much get the impression that a lot of INTJs simply aren't interested. (I get that impression online, anyway; IRL could be a different story.)
Well, I am not a pure INTJ but in my case the reason for such interest is that in order to achieve some (quite a few) of my goals, I have had to take leadership roles in various voluntary organizations.
In a voluntary organization, you can't motivate people with money so you have to offer them something more personal, and to be able to do that, you have to understand their motivations for doing what they do.
in my case the reason for such interest is that in order to achieve some (quite a few) of my goals, I have had to take leadership roles
Yes. Perhaps we don't so much see through people, as see through whatever front or window-dressing they are displaying. I have the sense that I can size up someone and determine what they are good for, as in what they are capable of. Perhaps they are name-dropping and throwing around alot of jargon, but have no real practical skills; or are overly modest, even lacking confidence, but in fact more able than they realize. I am limited in what kinds of attributes I can sense through the veneer, though. I suspect F users will see much of what I miss. In any case, some people may find this disquieting, hence the comments in the INTJ descriptions.Also, the INTJ looks for flaws all the time and what can be improved. If you combine that with what is typically a combination of being highly perceptive, insightful, intensity, coming across as impassive, and low expression of appreciation, which are all common to many INTJs, it is easy to see why some people would be intimidated or felt "wanting".