Scott N Denver
New member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2009
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- 2,898
- MBTI Type
- INFP
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- 4w5
I've heard of it. What's special about it or why are you recommending it?
I've heard of it. What's special about it or why are you recommending it?
Replace NT with Phonies and you are quite similar to the main character of that book, albeit much more angry than depressed.
So if the NTs really feel the things they say then they're not assholes, right?
This isn't directly aimed at you but who decides if it's deserved or not? That's a value judgment not an objective statement of truth. I see more NTs saying because it doesn't make logical sense to them there is no logic but that is not the case. Look at this forum and the causes of people's frustrations. Once again this strikes my funny bone, because if the smart people were really smart would this even be an issue? Wouldn't you have outsmarted everyone and got away from the circle of idiots you're surrounded by? What's that quote about the industrious and the stupid being the most dangerous group of people? Constantly figuring out new ways to annoy the nonstupid people and the nonstupid people fall for it every time!
Most people don't take the time to reach an understanding of why something happens in the manner it does. Just the way some of the NTs have said they don't necessarily know why or what they feel, others may not know immediately why or how something should be done the way it is. It's the same thing but aimed in a different direction. And just as you'd want patience and time to figure out what you feel, can't that same patience be extended to others rather than accusations of mental incompetence and harsh criticism? Is the effort even made? Maybe I've had to recant with my tail tucked between my legs enough at this point to tamp down on that reaction.
I discovered pretty quickly that aggressively insensitive comments don't get anything done and often don't have a lot of merit. Even if the point behind them is valid, unless it is verbally backed up with some kind of evidence statements like that don't have any value. Also it became necessary for me to develop my Fi, which I think helps balance out the "people are stupid" thoughts with a kind of abstract but positive regard for people.These all came from people that are in their 20's through maybe their 40's. I kid you not.
I've long fought the "NTs aren't robots" fight at INTPc...
Most of the time the NT is just young and immature. The older ones get tired of it.
My point exactly. Everyone thinks what OTHER people say is wrong. But, their own thoughts, feelings, visions, values, etc, etc are........perfectly valid. I'm right. You're wrong. You're a meany face. I'm not. You're too caught up with your logic. I don't do that. I value feelings.
Good grief. Do some NT's behave like jerks at times? Sure. I'm sure ALL NT's have things they are working on, me included (and the OP included as well).
YES, NT's tend to be harsh and critical. Yes. Fact. Give the feelers a point on the chalkboard. But, the way we think seems right to us just like the ridiculous things that OTHER TYPES do seem right and just to them.
:hi:
Precisely. Now why can't everybody accept this? I haven't found a greater tendency to assholishness among Ts, but that is perhaps because what I find assholish is different from the OP's view. There are awesome and awful folks of both persuasions.My point exactly. Everyone thinks what OTHER people say is wrong.
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YES, NT's tend to be harsh and critical. Yes. It's a fact. Give the feelers a point on the chalkboard. But, the way we think seems right to us just like the ridiculous things that OTHER TYPES do seem right and just to them.
Huh, there very well may be a few Holden Caulfield's in this thread (main character of The Catcher In The Rye, for those who haven't read it), but Scott N Denver isn't one of the ones coming across as one, imo.
Btw, Scott, I appreciate your NF perspective here, and I don't think you're coming off as depressed or angry, really.
Haven't you witnessed all the "NTs" that are like, "Oh, I am so Cold" or "Oh, I am emotionally retarded?"
Its like they wear it as a badge of honor. I simply don't understand this.
Why would you be proud of being similar to the autistic?
NT's and NF's both comprise about~15% of the [I believe US and maybe as well world] population. Whatever and however either type thinks or feels, both groups will generally be evaluated by standards not of their own. The vast majority of leaders [corporate, military, political, etc] are SJ's [STJ's in particular]. Both groups are outnumbered by _SF_'s. Regardless of the legitimacy or lack there of of our approaches and "values/priorities", we will have to "impress" and "answer to" predominantly non-NT-NF people as we go through life, particularly in the work world. It would behoove one to be aware of what they might think of you [you general not you as in poster] and why.
In response to the title of this thread, lack of [perceived] consideration for others, and to a lesser extent lack of [perceived] concern about others is what I personally think creates a lot of this assessment towards NT's. "You don't care about [me, him, her, whoever], fine then I'm not gonna care about you!" would probably be a good catchphrase to describe that. I think some, especially say SF's, interpret NT words and/or actions as being particularly spiteful and going out of one's way to be mean or hurtful to others. I think that bumps peoples attitudes towards said NT's from "Fine I'm not gonna care about you!" to "that person is such an _sshole!". Of course, NT's don't have a monopoly on such behavior.
You know this whole asshole thing seems context specific and worthy of considering the "intent" not just the observed behavior based on sociatal standards.
I tried that debate with several Feelers, but it went nowhere because they explicitly said that to them, the intent is irrelevant and so is my point of view. They FEEL that I've hurt them, and that's that, and no explanation can take that away, even if the explantion makes it clear and totally proves that they simply misunderstood the situation and that no malice or "badness" was actually going on. Yes, several Feelers have said to me that this is the way they think. So, what can you do then?
I understand all that. This thread is just strange. It starts out with an "NT" basically calling out other NT's, without addressing or discussing their own struggle or ability to overcome these same tendencies. That really could have been insightful. It should be assumed, from the way the original post was written, that the OP no longer has these struggles (or that he/she never had those struggles in the first place). If that's the case, then it would be REALLY insightful to the rest of us NT's to hear how the OP overcame those struggles. If the OP is concerned about NT's improving our image/people skills/ability to navigate through life, help us out with telling us how you got past these same struggles, being that you are also an NT.
If, on the other hand, the OP DOES still struggle with these same things, then why is he/she giving us flack for it instead of looking in the mirror?
The thread continues with a bunch of NF's hopping on board. And I appreciate the input. I value NF opinions very much. The shared "N" (and the rarity we have in society) makes it that we have a special connection and can help each other out. I just get frustrated with finger pointing rather than self-reflection/looking in the mirror. If you're an NT and you are certain that you are not a jerk, share your story in a way that helps those NT's who are trying to work through their issues, don't just say, "so many NT's are JERKS" because that tells us that you don't think YOU are a jerk - only that OTHERS are.