Venom
Babylon Candle
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 2,126
- MBTI Type
- INTJ
- Enneagram
- 1w9
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
1. That said, there may be some truth in it - for example, if someone thinks they're INFP but that they use a lot of Ni, and someone else tells them that they aren't using Ni because they're an INFP, or that it's unhealthy for them to do so and they should work on changing it, then I'd say that's a normative and inappropriate application of the system. But that's not a flaw in the system, it's a flaw in someone's use of it.
I actually interestingly enough think that there are some normative properties to MBTI. In short, even the MBTI practitioner who used to post here said it once (he/shes INFJ i think). Un-differentiation is not the goal of MBTI. People who are undifferentiated (XXXX) are not "healthier" according MBTI.
I think we can deduce two possibilities from this assumption:
I. XXXX and more differentiated are irrelevant to healthiness
II. XXXX is MBTI's version of borderline personality disorder
I want to discuss the merits of perhaps inductively accepting one over the other (we cant really deduce that one is better than the other).
If we accept II, The system then takes on the normative idea that say: ENFJs can use Ti as much as they want, as long as they remain differentiated with Fe and Ni differentiating their main personality.
2. With myself, I have noticed positive benefits to focusing ONLY on my top three world view processes (in an effort to differentiate myself more). Rather than make myself more unhealthy, it actually rather feels like I'm relaxing into a comfort zone (like im repairing myself). If someone instead tried to convince me to seek total balance XXXX, I might never have realized this comfort zone of differentiation!
I think this all makes more sense to me because I view the functions as "world view processes" rather than "skills":
Extraverted Feeling (Fe) makes sense of the world by viewing it in terms of where you stand with other people: interpreting signs that indicate the category of your relationship. As an epistemological perspective, Fe leads you to view every sign as an expression of people's loyalties. A simple example is that displaying a flag demonstrates your loyalty to country. What matters is how you go above and beyond efficient means to an end. For example, throwing a party in someone's honor is not "necessary" for survival: it's a gesture that goes above and beyond survival, expressing your feelings for the guest of honor in a way that all can understand. From an Fe perspective, words are never neutral descriptions of fact: your choice of words, your choice of topic, is a declaration of your feelings and loyalties. As an ethical perspective, Fe leads you to believe that "life is with people": to understand one's value and meaning in terms of your standing in the community--in terms of the people whom you influence and their feelings about you.
I like to sum this up as the loyalties world view: everything you do is a show of your loyalties and disloyalties. Something like not making it a point to find bob at the party might mean nothing to other world views, but in a Fe world view, its "a slight".
Introverted Intuition (Ni) focuses on what is inexpressible--the incommensurable and chaotic things that exist outside of any conceptual framework. For example, what do you hear in the theme-and-variations movement of Beethoven's String Quartet Op. 131? There is a meaning there, but you can't put it into words. Any attempt to put it into words will result in only a tawdry parody of the reality. Better to remain silent. As an epistemological perspective, Ni leads you to view all signs as meaningless or even deceptive, not necessarily connected to what they're supposed to represent. The true reality is something that exists beyond all signs and appearances, and can only be apprehended by a kind of direct intuition. To learn truth, one must learn to see through appearances--to make contact with a reality that cannot be seen or said. As an ethical perspective, Ni leads you to hold yourself apart from and unaffected by the meanings that others attach to words and events--to keep your own vision pure and pursue your own path regardless of evidence, reasons, or the opinions of others.
I like to sum this up as the "silver lining" world view. Behind all the immediate perceptions, whats really going on? Can I still be friends with this person even though their immediate symbols indicate no? According to my Ni, yes I can . Theres more to them then meets the eye.
Extraverted Sensation (Se) makes sense of the world by attending to what exists concretely here and now, and trusting your instincts. As an epistemological perspective, Se leads you to believe only in what you can see and experience concretely, and to trust your immediate, gut-level responses to it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it's a duck. Whatever a sign means is obvious and inescapable; if a sign's meaning is not obvious, then it's meaningless. Whatever is physical, immediate, gut-level cannot be faked and must be right. For example, if you sense that someone is up to no good, then you trust that sense. If you have an impulse to paint the town red, then you go out and do so. As an ethical perspective, Se leads you to believe that life is to be lived right now, "in the moment", responding to things immediately and without thought. What matters most in life is what makes the biggest perceivable impact, whatever stands out in a way that can't be ignored. Se leads you to develop a persona that is attractive and "hip" according to the conventions of your society and your time--to go with the flow without stopping to question the direction. If something isn't fun, then don't do it.
I like to sum this one up as "immediate action". Sometimes, seeing the silver lining and placing my loyalties just isnt working. Thats when embracing the immediate and seeing what needs to be seen right NOW is very helpful.
Beyond those three ^^^, it would be VERY hard to incorporate at all times, all 8 world views! This is perhaps why I think 3 is a natural "end point". Being undifferentiated would seem overwhelming, stressful and "lost".
Also, a Ti person trying to more differentiate themselves from being overly XXXX would NOT just sit around doing math problems all day . Ti is a world view process, not a specific skill.
So do you think being more differentiated has more merit than being undifferentiated?
3. Lenore Thompson has similar ideas to differentiation, but she instead recommends avoiding all but the top 2 (tertiary/inferior temptations). I think this is unnecessarily restricting. I think the tertiary is a positive and "mobilizing" influence.
Is there a correct number to differentiate to? Should we ignore certain functions on purpose? (remember, functions arent skills, but world view processes).
4. ENNEAGRAM and MBTI
Perhaps the "he's unbalanced" retort comes from recognizing "classic ennea/MBTI" pairs that over emphasize the MBTI type when in an unhealthy state of enneagram: ENTJ in an unhealthy enneagram 8 might give people the idea that being undifferentiated is more unhealthy?