Totenkindly
@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 50,379
- MBTI Type
- BELF
- Enneagram
- 594
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
Instead of being INTP, I would be INTj in that system. An INTJ would likewise be called an INTp. There's a good theoretical reason for this, even though it's more cumbersome on a practical level. From an inward perspective an INTP is actually more uptight -- they want 100% logical answers to everything. Whereas from an outward, everyday perspective, they "let things slide" more easily, and are more "laid back", less critical -- all the stereotypical P traits. So you look at one and think "P" but after getting to know them close-up, you have some doubts because they're really kind of uptight. The same happens for INTJ. They only seem J-like on the surface, once you get to know them they have a side that is much more P-like.
Yup. Very good description... and it's the inherent "contradiction" that confuses many people. Introverts who look J on the outside actually have a very P internal process, and vice versa.
So when you first meet them, INTJs can look more particular and uptight, whereas INTPs seem more flexible and easy-going; but once you get inside of them and really interact over the long term, you quickly realize that INTPs dig in tremendously when it comes to how ideas are thought about, what can be derived from reality and what cannot, etc. In general, INTPs do not seek to impose themselves on others... but they are "anal" as to what they will accept as valid in their thinking process, and internally they critique anything that goes on outside of them, they just don't often share it. INTJs seem much more flexible internally; it's just their need for external closure that can make them seem demanding at times.
And the same would go for the other IJ/IP pairs (and that might be worth articulating too ) :
- ISFx
- ISTx
- INFx
One approach is to use a lowercase 4-letter to refer only to strict rationality. Then Fi-dominant and Ti-dominant types will be the lowercase-j's along with the Fe and Te dominant types. But the original meaning of uppercase J and P is not going to go away any time soon, so I really don't think this is the best idea as a general practice.
It does become confusing if someone has not realized that Socionics is different from MBTI in this regard.
Luke, you actually know what the hell you're talking about!
Yup, he's good. And knows more about Socionics than most of us, too!