And so you know, the following are my understandings of the topic, and are not intended as judgments of you as a person. You're clearly bright, and your responses were well-thought out and appreciated.
Likewise.
Anyway, there's a lot to respond to, here, but I think it might be better to focus on a few of these. ...
So in a sense, the inducement into following our logical chain has a self-serving purpose as well - I want to see you go through it to make sure I haven't left anything out.
Wanna know what this feels like to an INTJ? It feels like you're stealing our thought processes for your own selfish purposes. Usually, for the first few iterations, it can be cool. After that, however, it becomes tiresome. We have our own projects, or perhaps even OUR project, to finish, and that's being postponed as you refine your understanding. Something to watch out for in your communication style.
And you wanna know what that feels like to me? No offense, but it comes across as slightly egomaniacal - you're more concerned with your own personal glory and conceit of intellectual superiority than helping a fellow team member solve a problem to mutual benefit. That you don't respect me as a coworker enough to believe my figuring out something will lead to greater future benefit raises the Ti/Fe competitive drive very quickly.
[I'll be speaking plainly, here ... no offense is intended, I just wish to be clear about the impression this makes on me.]
This bit is quite interesting. Notice how I included earlier quotes.
You are coming across just as rather insecure. What personal glory? I don't give a sh-t. I'm either right or I am wrong. If I'm right, I don't "win." If I'm wrong, I don't "lose." The facts, the objects, the process is either right or wrong, works or doesn't work. What conceit of intellectual superiority? Just because you happen to feel insulted should I correctly point out an error on your part? Just because I speak directly rather than circuitously? As you point out later, Fi/Te isn't sensitive to the social hierarchy. That's very true. Even if someone tries to praise me for being very intelligent/smart/skilled/adept/whatever, it doesn't boost my ego. Such compliments fall flat for most INTJs.
Because of that INTJ-ish perception, I don't care for your ego in the Ti/Fe way, and ironically you regard my approach as egotistical.
Helping out a fellow team member? You're projecting a bit, here. At what point does "helping out" devolve from showing someone the ropes and developing a level of understanding, to complete handholding? Keep in mind, this is differing perspectives: after several iterations of questions, I'm fairly sure you understand, but
you aren't sure you understand, and the questions keep coming. The trick, when this is an issue, is to find a balance. Ti wants to keep investigating, but at some point, actual work needs to be done. Sometimes actually doing the work, and making a mistake, makes matters more clear to all parties involved, and results in a faster solution than debating about what mistakes
might be made.
This is what people mean by the NiTe arrogance. When you even intimate that you're holding an attitude like the above, practically every fiber in my being is in fighting mode. I know I'm just as smart and capable as you or anyone in the organization, and if you're challenging me like that, I'll make every effort to either affirmatively prove that, or barring that option, every effort to knock you down a peg or twenty to make sure you don't make the mistake of crossing me like that again. I'd advise you to take that into account when considering your communication style as well - that's a real easy way to make some very tenacious enemies, and I think we can agree that this is to no one's benefit.
Except I'm not challenging you in the least. You're
reading it as a "challenge." I do
not deliberately try to make people feel bad about themselves or inferior to me. They do that perfectly fine all on their own, and then blame me for making them feel that way. (Again, I'm reporting my perspective, not "the truth.") I do my best to avoid fights over such stupid things. If someone gets all ants in the pants over something I said, I'll sincerely apologize, and explain my social ineptitude. (And there's a very good reason I'm not a lawyer, eh?!)
I don't know if I speak for most ENTPs, but I personally don't believe in much of intellectual property law, because I think we're better off if everyone has access to as much information as possible, since 6.7 billion heads work far better than one does.
Actually, NTs in general would agree with you. Read the original quote: my objection is not to your gaining access to my knowledge and information, but rather
demanding my time. I don't object to the initial iterations (which could be several), but the inconclusive, never-ending nature of it. At some point I have to say "enough" and get back to other responsibilities, unless my primary responsibility is to train you. My responsibilities and deadlines do not just disappear because you could use my help. I have to judge how much time I have to spare.
Just remember - we hate the social hierarchy, but we're very attuned to it. It seems like Te/Fi isn't as much so. If you want to improve your communication with the Fe-lensed, make sure to consider the hierarchical context of what you're saying. If you get a response that seems completely illogical, it's likely that you came across as aggressively trying to establish dominance in that context.
I think this is very good advice. Really and for true, I don't pay any attention to that hierarchical twaddle, and variations of that are where the Ti/Fe folks get all upset. For the most part, I've identified it with Fe, but it seems that I need to keep an eye out for it w/r to Ti, too.
From my perspective, it seems like one can make a post (say about INTJ or whatever type), and have several other INTJs chime in, all on a mutual quest for self-analysis and self-discovery, perhaps marveling that for once they've found other people who think like they do themselves, and some Ti/Fe person will come along and insult the INTJs (or whatever Fi/Te type) for being so full of themselves and having to prove how INTJ they are to the world. (Heck, sometimes even self-labeled INTJs do that, which more than anything makes me doubt their INTJ-ness, precisely because they're being sensitive to the social hierarchy, as you put it.) The INTJs, however, are just having fun in their INTJ way. They aren't raining on anyone's parade, though I'm sure that it's easy to for those sensitive to it to read it that way.
So, just as it would behoove Fi/Te to perhaps be more aware of hierarchical interpretations of their speech, it would behoove Ti/Fe to perhaps be more aware that perhaps half of the world doesn't give a crap about their social standing.
[Hmm. I'm suddenly wondering if there's an analogous Fi/Te-style hierarchy, of which Ti/Fe is unaware and does not honor. Or more specifically, I wonder what conventions that are common between Fi/Te folks are not honored by Ti/Fe.]
Te comes out very quickly and very agitated. I start barking orders and do not tolerate dissent at that point. It's teamed up with Fe for sure - when people start getting out of line, I get on them for not following the objective. A stressed ENTP often looks like a particularly assholish INTJ - it's not our best moment.
Just my impression, but I'm fairly sure this isn't Te. "Barking orders" is how Fe users might characterize Te, just as "proffering meaningless platitudes" is how Te users might characterize Fe. Neither is true. Rather, these stereotypes are how each emulates the other.
...........................
One last thing, which I want to take out of the context of prior discussions and have it in its own context: the source of NiTe arrogance. It may be difficult to believe, but INTJs are really very unsure of themselves, we lack confidence, and in general would really rather hang back and be unobtrusive and observe and learn. The INTJ is very afraid of saying something wrong. Yet, Ni eventually comes to understand certain things very well. Extremely well, even. The INTJ becomes a true expert. (Immature INTJs can believe that one is an expert when it is far from the truth ... that's a different matter, that does not contradict the point I am making here.) For those things in which the INTJ is a true expert, a different personae appears, however briefly, when an issue to which the expertise pertains arises. We just
know we are correct, our knowledge and understanding has been tested, perhaps for years or even decades. We also know what we do not know, and we don't make assertions on that.
Now consider the selection effect: when we are unsure, we are silent. When we are very certain of ourselves and the truth of what we intend to say, we speak. Of
course we're going to come across as arrogant pricks if we're not careful! But it's a selection effect: unlike INTP, for example, we don't go asking questions and musing aloud. We stay silent, trying to develop our understanding. You will only hear us when we are "being arrogant." The degree of self-confidence that it takes to overcome our natural reticence and shyness is rather high.
That's the NiTe arrogance, in a nutshell.