Salomé
meh
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 10,527
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 5w4
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/sp
What an oddball group of thinkers you are. No wonder where the opportunity presents you'll claim no four letter code truly represent a a person. When one of your number "proves" a type fits, the whole proof could fit anyone. Can generalise, is detached, waits, chooses strategy, and in an interview where he's asked questions, he informs. Gold star.
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we must picture a, man whose constant aim -- in so far, of course, as he is a [p. 435] pure type
No one is a pure type. The Dude himself said that there's no such thing as a pure type - outside an asylum.
Therefore, even if you could demonstrate Snowden using Te, so what? Any moron can use Te, and in a sysadmin it's essential. It's funny how often INTJs accuse INTPs of hair-splitting, given their own tendency to examine minutiae and miss the big picture. Instead of scrutinising his every word like he is the new Messiah, you have to look at the pattern of his speech, his interaction style, the pattern of his actions, the pattern of his life choices. These scream ITP to me and near everyone else without an anti-INTP bias. You have to ask yourself why you are so resistant to the inevitable.
You seem unwilling/unable to demonstrate your reasoning beyond quoting reams of Jung and asserting "he seems like this to me". I will take your quotes and show you how Snowden uses introverted thinking above the other kind:
So, what is a subjective conclusion appears as objective fact to the Ti-dom at times, who may state it in such terms.Jung on Ti said:This thinking may be conceived either with concrete or with abstract factors, but always at the decisive points it is orientated by subjective data. Hence, it does not lead from concrete experience back again into objective things, but always to the subjective content, External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear.
For Snowden, the NSA "broke" democracy. That this isn't actually an objective truth seems to be clearer to you (the INTJ) than it is to the INTPs, who follow his logic completely. In fact, you spelled this out, but put the wrong spin on it. You interpreted it as symbolic and visionary. For you, the "real threat" is yet to occur and can only be revealed at this point by Ni "vision", for Snowden, the INTP, it has already happened.
This is what he did. He observed the instances of NSA misconduct, formulated a theory about how/why this happens, what it leads to and what might halt it, and then acted in harmony with that theory. He "opened up prospects and yielded insights" - that's EXACTLY what he did. He collected facts, instances of "abuses", not because they were important in themselves, but because they illustrated the problems with POLICY -the pattern of wrong-doing he'd observed and the root cause he'd identified -that made such things inevitable.Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern. It formulates questions and creates theories; it opens up prospects and yields insight, but in the presence of facts it exhibits a reserved demeanour. As illustrative examples they have their value, but they must not prevail. Facts are collected as evidence or examples for a theory, but never for their own sake
...much as you have been doing here.[of Te] "as in the former case the purely empirical heaping together of facts paralyses thought and smothers their meaning, "
Actually what you accused Snowden of doing here...."so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency [p. 482] to coerce facts into the shape of its image, "
They look like pre-established conclusions. What INTP will set themselves up like that?
What universe do you inhabit that allows you to see this kind of dogmatism in Ed "the people must decide" Snowden?by contrast, there's dominant extroverted thinking, which sounds like:
"This type of man gives the deciding voice-not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage-"