Qlip
Post Human Post
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 8,464
- MBTI Type
- ENFP
- Enneagram
- 4w5
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
Yes, I suppose that is often true. It's an interesting fact of human nature that the people that seem the toughest are usually defending a soft spot.That's the thing about ESTJs - with regard to opinions and motivations, we're incredibly up front. But that's not to say that we don't hide things. Everybody has a facet of themselves that they don't reveal to everyone. It's just that what we hold in are feelings, not facts. A lot of Thinkers are like that, from my experience - blunt, but avoiding vulnerability.
Oh, no. By hot air I meant more like thinking INTP out loud, aka babbling . Not so much actually dumping or venting. I do this occasionally, but not terribly often and I always mean what I say.Interesting that I'd hear this from an INTP. Most people I've encountered who have this issue are INFJs. They vent at people, and ESTJs take it as sincerity and get confused/bewildered.
I guess everyone does this, project and assume that the other person thinks like themselves.With regards to ESTJs reading messages into things - my theory is that it's because, no matter how talkative an ESTJ is, they don't use many unnecessary words. They get right to the point. So, because they have that internal standard for themselves, they can't help but project that on other people, and assume that they mean everything they say.
I think it's cool that ESTJ's seem to have such concrete thoughts. When a subject comes up, like for instance, finding ways to work with people we find unpleasant, I automatically think of a theoretical person that I would find unpleasant. Heck even if I *meet* an unpleasant person I classify them as an abstract. An ESTJ is thinking of one specific unpleasant person, and probably the one that pissed her off yesterday. It's like watching the engine run in a car with the hood up.
I've read this, about ESTJs being more about doing than reflecting. I envy this sometimes, but reflection has got me out of some bad behavior loops that I'd otherwise be still stuck in today.The closest thing that I can come up with is that I sometimes think out loud. My INTP dad, for example, will call me out on the fact that, when asked, I won't necessarily give THE reason for why I do something right away. And I have to explain to him that I didn't know the real reason, right away. I have to brainstorm. And I have to do that because - and this is something that he doesn't get about me - I have a hard time just sitting and thinking of a reply, when asked to sit and think of one. Without outside stimulation, I start to think about the fact that I'm thinking, and my mind wanders, and suddenly I am completely unable to get my mind to work, and the pressure builds up and I can't even answer the question anymore. Just spouting off reason after reason comes more naturally to me.
However, that differs from venting, because I still mean everything I'm saying - all the reasons are still valid (except for select occasions, and usually the statement will be followed by "Wait, that's not even remotely true. Sorry about that"). They're just not in order of importance.
I guess what I was talking was code speak. I don't know how common this is with ESTJs, but my ESTJ will drop 'hints' instead of out right saying things. It seems to her referring to something indirectly is a non confrontational way of making a point or saying something that she would otherwise feel uncomfortable saying. Unfortunately you have to drop an anvil on me to get something like that through, it took me by surprise when I realized this.
It also had me wondering if she was taking some of my random mutterings as some sort of hints or code speak, and then I started getting really worried about what I talk about. It would account for some of the misunderstood behavior.