There are instances in which people don't try to change others because they enjoy having a context to feel superior. My 'thinking too highly of my posts' could give you cause to demonstrate something superior. It is definitely an insult and put down and a character slam, and rather effective invalidation. Consider that you don't actually know me well enough to know what i think of my posts or experience. That statement is intrusive to me - i will let you know i think that. i don't really want you to know more.
i don't have to know you well to have an opinion of how your posts above read to me, nor i have asked you to tell me anything about yourself. as for character slam, if there wasn't a shred of truth to my observation, it wouldn't bother you so much. you are chastising to me as if you are my mother--do you not see the irony?
It's not appropriate in every context. A pre-adult does not have the means to make it on their own, so kicking them out is a horrible plan.The toughened alchoholic father who comes home drunk and borders on abusing his children should come home to locked doors. Context is everything. Every single comment in this thread requires an understanding of such a complex context.
One of the problems with this thread is that we are talking about way too many things at once. Some are talking about sociopaths, others habitual victims, some bullies and aggressors, others the self-righteous, and others still their personal friends. People express an opinion about one and the next poster places those comments as an opinion about a completely different demographic. It has potential to be quite a mess. It is extremely important not to make snap judgments about people posting here, but to show some love and support for whatever situations they have faced that brings them to difficult choices. There is a great deal of pain expressed in this thread, people being open about things that have hurt them deeply. It is a raw context to be judging the people here. Potentially more hurtful than a thread about pure analysis. edit: When making tough calls there is guilt, regret, relief, second guessing, etc. It is a horrible process of being torn and wanting to find the right answer when there are no right answers. So yes, I feel pretty damn protective of those who have been in the rough, raw trenches making the tough calls. Only people with perfect sheltered lives even consider perfection a possibility within themselves or others.
you are being overly dramatic here toonia, it is not the end of the world. i said you were being self-righteous. i did not say you were a bad person, in fact you seem to be a good person (though i think you are misguided about somethings--but the world is big enough for both of our approaches).
your above comments are a perfect example of why i said that i think you think too highly of your own opinion--you've just lectured me for two long paragraphs on how i should think and behave--that is self-righteous by definition. and from your response, being called self-righteous seems to be a sore spot with you. if you feel i am way off base, just shrug it off as the uninformed opinion of stupid anonymous person online; and then stand up straight, smile, and get on your life and forget about me.
your underlying assumption that i have not understood the thread is wrong--i have understood what was going on perfectly, we just have different opinions about it.
simply because i do not choose to air the horror story of my own life, does not mean i live a "perfectly sheltered" one. i am not going to try to manipulate you or anyone else who reads my words into accepting what i have to say by publicizing my woes, which is all that posting my life's not-so-greatest-hits would serve to do. do you not see that just about everything you said above is a perfect example of NF manipulation that was being discussed intpc recently? you throw all out this personal stuff to basically try to silence me, and to shame me.
(BTW, i include sociopaths and abusive alcoholic fathers in my conception of people who deserve acceptance and safe haven somewhere by someone. i don't believe jeffrey dahmer made a conscious decision to be a serial killing cannibal--and for that reason alone he deserves tremendous pity; and while he doesn't have a right to hurt others, he did have a right to be placed in a humane place to live out his days and maybe get help.
and the same goes for the drunk father who beats his kids--he does not deserve to hurt his kids but he does deserve pity and someone somewhere who will try to help him. i am not saying you or anyone else doesn't have a right to get away from abusive people. i am just saying that all people deserve acceptance and a safe haven somewhere...and when people hurt you, letting go of the anger and forgiving them is the only way to heal yourself...)
You do realize these kinds of statements have potential to be
hurtful, right?
yes, but you are using the potential to hurt as a means of censorship--and that is wrong. as for my comment from that post: criticism can lodge inside of me--i mull it over, i consider it, it become parts of me--often i wish this was not true, but it is--i let it guide my perception of myself and some of it hurts me terribly, but only the criticism that touches my insecurities, and usually only by people who matter to me--i try to use it to make myself a better person. BUT i don't deny people their right as senteint beings to form opinions about my words and actions.
But i am sorry that you are in a position to see things that way. I don't know you except for a handful of
statements in cyberspace. (please explain previous link in the context of this discussion.) I'm guessing there are people you know irl with the attitude you are perceiving here? I don't understand that ready dismissal of everyone else's point of view. How is that acceptance? How is that humility?
actually it is perfectly consistent, but i guess you ignored my "heh." i don't feel sympathy so much for people i know just going through the ordinary pains of life--nothing i said above contradicts that--i accept that they are human and are not perfect--it is hard for me to pity people suffering from the same things i suffer from, but easy for me to pity people who suffer things that are far removed from what i have suffered. i think it is just that if i have survived it, it doesn't seem so serious to me--that doesn't mean i don't help if they need me to or listen if they want to vent...
you seem to be thinking that accepting a person and approving everything that person says and does are synonymous--they aren't. one of my best friends has repeatedly cheated on her husband, she knows i think this is wrong, but i still love her, she is still my friend and i accept her nonetheless. in fact, i don't believe you can really, truly accept someone unless you acknowledge their flaws too--otherwise you aren't even really "seeing" them.
I really have appreciated your comments here, but they are continually paired with these attacks on other posters. You make beautiful, inspiring statements about acceptance and them SLAM, make statements that could reasonably make other feel like shit. If the kindest, most ideal people like yourself are going to think the worst of others posting here, where the heck can a person go for a safe haven?
i post here so infrequently that i find it hard to believe i have forever destroyed the safe haven of mbticentral, and have garnered a reputation as a troll etc, but if i am disruptive, i didn't mean to be, i apologize and will abstain from posting in the future.
Meursault, how are you hoping others will respond to you in this thread?
i wasn't hoping they would respond--i was just posting my thoughts. i don't post to get a response. the only response i have gotten that meant anything to me was a PM from jeff jones but i think he sent me that PM by mistake.