[NT] It's so hard to me as a NT to live in the majority S world

[geedoenfj]

This topic again? I thought we moved on...

Easy for you to say.. Privileged sensors

;P

 

[Coriolis]

Believe me, you don't know sensors at all if you think all we do is sit around staring at our office cubicle wall all day thinking about last night's potluck.

Of course you don't. You sit in your cubicles all day reconciling spreadsheets and proofreading regulations, with the occasional break to attend a retirement ceremony or bosses' day luncheon. Thoughts of last night's potluck are reserved for break time.

 

[Yuurei]

Never really noticed, honestly.

But then I still don't completely understand the difference. It seems that one informs the other and anyway, I find the S/N thing to be most nonsensical of the letters.

 

[Kanra Jest]

The only thing I might be annoyed with is being on different wavelengths of reasoning. Misunderstandings. Whatnot.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

I am officially concerned as the sensor stigma is now following the basic pattern for oppression of differing people groups: In this topic alone one can see the claims that the intuitive group is uniquely special and privileged, that the sensors are depriving the intuitives off success and job opportunities, that intuitives are evolutionarily advanced (though in religious contexts the preferred group was divinely blessed), that sensors have weaker thinking capabilities than intuitives, and much more. Luckily you have chosen your new group to discriminate against so as to up your feelings of self-importance and economic opportunities, poorly, as sensors outnumber you and in most cases in history suppression happened against minorities. Additionally, MBTI is considered only a fad and not taken seriously or well known by most people ... yet.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I cannot tell you how many times I see a thread in the popular section, click on it, and start "liking" ancient comments before I realize what I'm doing.

Anyway, maybe I'm alone in a boat here, but even though I have felt different and struggled forming close relationships my entire life, I guess I haven't really ever gotten down on myself because of it. I have plenty of things that get me down, but I guess if I am unable to form a relationship with someone, I just move on. I also appear exceptionally ambivert or downright extrovert at times, if I'm in my comfort zone, so I only ever hang out in the shadows if I want to or I'm too tired/anxious to bother. I accept this as who I am and have NEVER thought any less of or blamed sensors for any sense of alienation. I guess I just don't understand where that comes from because even though I cannot stand some people, I accept that the spectrum of human personality is HUGE.

If I'm being honest, I think it's probably far harder for INFs than INTs because being "feely" is way less socially acceptable than being logical. Imagine the struggles of being an INF man.... being approximate 1 in 200 and being surrounded by STJs. I truly don't think there is a harder existence than that.

 

[Lord Lavender]

I cannot tell you how many times I see a thread in the popular section, click on it, and start "liking" ancient comments before I realize what I'm doing.

Anyway, maybe I'm alone in a boat here, but even though I have felt different and struggled forming close relationships my entire life, I guess I haven't really ever gotten down on myself because of it. I have plenty of things that get me down, but I guess if I am unable to form a relationship with someone, I just move on. I also appear exceptionally ambivert or downright extrovert at times, if I'm in my comfort zone, so I only ever hang out in the shadows if I want to or I'm too tired/anxious to bother. I accept this as who I am and have NEVER thought any less of or blamed sensors for any sense of alienation. I guess I just don't understand where that comes from because even though I cannot stand some people, I accept that the spectrum of human personality is HUGE.

If I'm being honest, I think it's probably far harder for INFs than INTs because being "feely" is way less socially acceptable than being logical. Imagine the struggles of being an INF man.... being approximate 1 in 200 and being surrounded by STJs. I truly don't think there is a harder existence than that.

The INF men I have know have all been very intresting and lovely people. Some of them would act ST to blend in but a first rate INF man is better than the same man as a second rate ST. Likewise the same the other way around. People should just be who they are and not waste energy trying to be something they are not. Likewise many xNTx women struggle as well and being a xNTx guy is strange in many ways as I find it hard to relate to many men myself due to not sharing intrests with them like sports e.t.c. and it must be 10* harder for a NT woman.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

The INF men I have know have all been very intresting and lovely people. Some of them would act ST to blend in but a first rate INF man is better than the same man as a second rate ST. Likewise the same the other way around. People should just be who they are and not waste energy trying to be something they are not. Likewise many xNTx women struggle as well and being a xNTx guy is strange in many ways as I find it hard to relate to many men myself due to not sharing intrests with them like sports e.t.c. and it must be 10* harder for a NT woman.

You mean to tell me that you actually know INF men? I don't *think* I know any, or ever have. How would you even identify one, especially if they act ST??? I'm going to the library later, maybe I'll get lucky, haha.

 

[fetus]

Ah, same for me. No wonder, we live in 'S' people world, there are most people who pursue endless mundane pleasure. Hmm, i think we must embrace ourselves to understanding 'S' people with our different perspective. That's why we always prone to detach ourselves from this world.

Oh boy.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Never really noticed, honestly.

But then I still don't completely understand the difference. It seems that one informs the other and anyway, I find the S/N thing to be most nonsensical of the letters.

You do? I actually find that to be the most important one. Perhaps it's because that is the one that is highest of all my functions. I have tested anywhere between 75-100% intuitive. My "F" and "J" are much closer to 50-60%, and I am about 2/3 introvert.

Are you sorta half and half sensor and intuitive? Cuz that could certainly explain your perspective.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

You mean to tell me that you actually know INF men? I don't *think* I know any, or ever have. How would you even identify one, especially if they act ST??? I'm going to the library later, maybe I'll get lucky, haha.

A library is probably a great spot to find INF guys.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

A library is probably a great spot to find INF guys.

Except that they'll probably all be college kids, and I'm oldish.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

Except that they'll probably all be college kids, and I'm oldish.

Pretend to be a book agent or editor at a high-end writing conference then.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

If I'm being honest, I think it's probably far harder for INFs than INTs because being "feely" is way less socially acceptable than being logical. Imagine the struggles of being an INF man.... being approximate 1 in 200 and being surrounded by STJs. I truly don't think there is a harder existence than that.

I think different fit in in different situations. In some fields being feely is encouraged like the arts, and counseling, and in mothering groups. Some people are upset of my lack of emotional effusiveness, and my mom constantly says I won't make any friends because of it. Does this mean my life is more difficult than feelers? Well maybe in that particular situation, but like you said certain parts of society (you did not specify, but will assume in science, economics, business, and super masculine friend groups) look down on people who are emotional. The truth is that some parts of society need more thinkers, and other parts of society need more feelers.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I think different fit in in different situations. In some fields being feely is encouraged like the arts, and counseling, and in mothering groups. Some people are upset of my lack of emotional effusiveness, and my mom constantly says I won't make any friends because of it. Does this mean my life is more difficult than feelers? Well maybe in that particular situation, but like you said certain parts of society (you did not specify, but will assume in science, economics, business, and super masculine friend groups) look down on people who are emotional. The truth is that some parts of society need more thinkers, and other parts of society need more feelers.

No, what I meant is ALL parts of society discourage men from expressing emotions. So, they stuff them away. This is a big part of why there is such an issue with men being angry; it is the only acceptable emotion to show culturally, especially in the US. Now, imagine being an INF man and being told all of your life to "man up" or "real men don't cry" or whatever else.... there is absolutely nothing worse than being an INF man in today's society.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

No, what I meant is ALL parts of society discourage men from expressing emotions. So, they stuff them away. This is a big part of why there is such an issue with men being angry; it is the only acceptable emotion to show culturally, especially in the US. Now, imagine being an INF man and being told all of your life to "man up" or "real men don't cry" or whatever else.... there is absolutely nothing worse than being an INF man in today's society.

This doesn't sound like an NF issue, it sounds like a general man issue. Which yeah does need to be solved. The best thing to do is find places that are "safe spaces" for men showing emotion.

 

[Coriolis]

The INF men I have know have all been very intresting and lovely people. Some of them would act ST to blend in but a first rate INF man is better than the same man as a second rate ST. Likewise the same the other way around. People should just be who they are and not waste energy trying to be something they are not. Likewise many xNTx women struggle as well and being a xNTx guy is strange in many ways as I find it hard to relate to many men myself due to not sharing intrests with them like sports e.t.c. and it must be 10* harder for a NT woman.

I think it is only hard to the degree that you internalize other people's standards and judgments. I don't, so doubt I have it any harder in than NT men. I agree that it is always best to "be yourself". The whole world doesn't have to like me, but the more I pretend, the harder I make it for myself to find that part of the world that does.

You mean to tell me that you actually know INF men? I don't *think* I know any, or ever have. How would you even identify one, especially if they act ST??? I'm going to the library later, maybe I'll get lucky, haha.

I know several NF men. Don't confuse being NF with being emotional. F in type theory is subjective judgment, not being an emotional basket case. NF men are strongly grounded in their values, and will simply give more weight to subjective, human considerations rather than objective, impersonal considerations as an NT would prefer. The NF men I know at work fit in to a scientific/technical setting very well - are respected, productive, and comfortable there. Perhaps they fare worse in other settings, but I'm sure I would as well.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

This doesn't sound like an NF issue, it sounds like a general man issue. Which yeah does need to be solved. The best thing to do is find places that are "safe spaces" for men showing emotion.

Well of course, but can you imagine how it would be even harder for NF men? It's more core to who they are.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I know several NF men. Don't confuse being NF with being emotional. F in type theory is subjective judgment, not being an emotional basket case. NF men are strongly grounded in their values, and will simply give more weight to subjective, human considerations rather than objective, impersonal considerations as an NT would prefer. The NF men I know at work fit in to a scientific/technical setting very well - are respected, productive, and comfortable there. Perhaps they fare worse in other settings, but I'm sure I would as well.

That is a fair point. I am still working out my understanding of the functions.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

Well of course, but can you imagine how it would be even harder for NF men? It's more core to who they are.

I don't think one type inherently has life more difficult than others.