Analyze Victor/split from Forum's Scariest Members

[Requeim]

well, at least someone shares my point of view

 

[Fluffywolf]

You are unnecessarily taking a very unambiguous observation on a philosophical level. The mask you wear does give hints about your personality as a whole, but it's still a malicious delusion.

Look, I'm not trying to achieve world peace here, so I do not have the intentions of writing a freaking novel about this issue. I just felt that this needed to be said because I do believe injustice was done here. If you don't agree with my point, whatever. But if you wish to discuss that with me, don't come with evasive arguements as if you actually know shit, and actually come up with arguements that I can work with. If I am wrong in my opinion, prove it. If you don't care, stay silent.

I have read Victor's posts for a very long time. I've understood most of them and feel I have a pretty fair and objective opinion built up about him over time. And what I perceive here is him being a victim of pointless bullying. And that happens like every month or so, not just by you. If anything, I admire Victor for not just closing the browser and never ever putting up with the likes of you again. But all attempts to discredit him have been assumptious and ungrounded. If you don't like him, that's fine. You can't like everyone in your life. I don't either. You don't have to like anyone for all I care. I'm fine with that. But if I see anyone trying to discredit someone in ways that seem completely ungrounded to me. I have an urge to step in. That's who I am.

Saying my view on this is philosophical and malicious however does very much concern me and if you have -any- arguement or reason to back up your claim on that, I suggest you start making your point. I've pondered about this issue quite a lot, and strongly feel my opinion is not pulled right out of the air.

I don't claim to know you, and therefor I doubt you know me, so purely judging from these two posts here and that fact, I don't think I'd be far off in saying that you're way to quick to judge, and pretty much full of BS. (And the irony in that sentence was intentional.)

Edit: Also, don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to come up for Victor. I'm just doing what I feel is right. He has no say in that as much as I have any say in his actions. I don't care how he feels about this. I care how I feel about it.

 

[Laurie]

My name is Victor Reginald Shortus. I live at 1/22 Oxley Street, Griffith. ACT.2603. Look me up on Google Earth and you will be able to look right in my front door at street level.

My telephone number is 0011 61 2 6232 6294. You can call me right now.

Or you can type my name shortus into Skype and talk to me and see me on camera.

Or of course there is always Google Talk.

So who are you? Or do you prefer to hide behind your pseudonym Qre:us and criticize me from the safety of your anonymity?

I won't tell you. But, balls to you for doing so.
This.

Because if I reveal my name, I will no longer be anonymous, given the world wide web.

Googling you, Mr. Victor Reginald Shortus, you still retain your anonymity.

Thus, you have control. I do not. In this, we are not equal. Alas.

There is a difference between physical body and who we actually are.

To tell someone your name doesn't give away yourself, it gives away what your parents gave you as a weak identifier.

Being able to find you geographically also doesn't give of yourself.

To give of yourself you must share without hiding what is inside.

Qre:us, without pics or address, does appear to show what is inside.

With address and name Victor has not.

 

[Litvyak]

If I am wrong in my opinion, prove it.

Lol, how do I prove that Victor's fake? How do you prove that he's not? Shall we arrange a three-continental meeting on the Bahamas?
Please think for a while before you talk shit.

There is nothing to prove here - I just wanted to say that you're evading my point by bringing in the pseudo-philosophical sweet talk.

No, I do not wish to discuss semiotics or moral philosophy with you. At all. Nor do I want to keep silent.

But if I see anyone trying to discredit someone in ways that seem completely ungrounded to me. I have an urge to step in. That's who I am.

There's no problem with that. But answering with shitstorm to a shitstorm does make you appear a little less intelligent than you would like to.

Saying my view on this is philosophical and malicious however does very much concern me and if you have -any- arguement or reason to back up your claim on that, I suggest you start making your point.

"The mask you wear does give hints about your personality as a whole, but it's still a malicious delusion. "

The malicious delusion concerned Victor's little play, and not your argument.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Lol, how do I prove that Victor's fake?

If you don't know or can't prove he is fake, which is morally the same, but still accuse him of being so. Then my point was definatly justified and we are done talking.

This was exactly why I felt I needed to make that point and I thank you for proving me right.

 

[Litvyak]

If you don't know or can't prove he is fake, but still accuse him of being so. Then my point was definatly justified and we are done talking.

I think he's fake, you think he's not, that's all. I didn't say or do anything that would make it necessary for you to play Captain Justice. If he wants to defend himself, get it on.

I thank you for proving me right.

Too transparent. Try again?

 

[Laurie]

Victor writes in a style that makes people think he might be fake. It's inherent to the style of writing. Some people will think he is, some people won't. He did offer his skype for anyone to interact with him, that probably would give a better idea of which he is. The problem is that if you think he is "fake" you might not want to interact with him on skype.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think he's fake, you think he's not, that's all. I didn't say or do anything that would make it necessary for you to play Captain Justice. If he wants to defend himself, get it on.

You accused him of being fake, you didn't say you believe he might be fake. To the reader there is a -huge- difference there, it wields an entirely different impact and came make the world of difference between hurting someone or trying to intellectually argue with someone.

Too transparent. Try again?

I see I was right about you as well, on both accusations. Still on the evasive behaviour. And way too quick to judge.

Either way, that's as much as I will indulge your 'try again'. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is done with, if you still disagree, for the sake of the forum. Take it up to me personally. These posts will already probably be graveyarded, no need to make even more for the mods to move in a discussion that is clearly between you and me, not relating to this topic.

 

[ergophobe]

Wow. Victor's thread is, as always, intriguing (Sorry purple - I'm not acquainted with any scary members ):

For what it's worth, Victor typed himself as an INFP and is living up to that fully on this thread and others. The fiercely individualistic part in a clearly emotional way and defending this individuality with fuzzy logic fits.

I think you are having yourself on. You don't understand distinctions or cultural difference. Yet here you are holding forth on an international forum.

Victor, please don't go there - makes you an easy target. You don't understand culture from the above statement or the concept of identity for any given member on the forum being made up of multiple cultures. The assumption of a single cultural influence for any of us is a false start.

It reminds me of your State Department that started a war in the Middle East and no one could speak Arabic.

Pot calling kettle black? As I recall, Australia happily sent troops in to support the U.S. Shall we associate you with your foreign affairs ministry?

Colonial elitism.....

I am a savage, you shall enlighten me....

That's the flavor I'm getting and it sucks. I'd like strawberry instead please and it better have real strawberries. None of that stuff with artificial flavoring!

Wether that's true or not, it's still not important. I don't see him harming anyone. And this forum is supposed to let people be themselves and be appreciated for that regardless of their opinions and actions. He has his own identity, and no one should expect him to act any different than how he believes he should act himself.

Agreed.

FW - are you trying to add another tangent to this thread with the above -- type FW as a a flavor of F?

I think despite the silliness, there are some really interesting questions raised here.

1. What is culture or identity in the context of an online identity?
2. How do we measure or determine how guarded or open one is on an online forum?
Should it measured by the level of personal detail one is willing to offer?
Does a higher level of personal detail imply a greater level of sincerity in reflecting one's RL views/opinions?
Does the anonymity that is offered to us here (it is a choice, you know at both ends ) provide us a safe space to present our views/opinions openly in a way that the personal details would inhibit us in real life?
3. Finally, why should this matter at all? Most of us are here because the conversations are interesting and we're learning something. Why should the choice made by the person regarding the level of detail they share affect the interaction? Precisely because it's an international forum, distance and details become less important than more. When we don't present our views as tied to particular contexts, we allow people to see us for us - not tied to stereotypical images of the environments in which we reside. More similarities and differences based on personality type - after all, isn't that what brings us here?

Tuppence done. Off to make coffee.

 

[Fluffywolf]

FW - are you trying to add another tangent to this thread with the above -- type FW as a a flavor of F?

I did not act out of sympathy. But just out of the typical INTP, admittedly subjective, sense of justice. I do keep an open mind, but bs arguements aren't going to sway my view. Did it for me, not for Victor.

So pretty T, not very F.

 

[Litvyak]

You accused him of being fake, you didn't say you believe he might be fake. To the reader there is a -huge- difference there, it wields an entirely different impact and came make the world of difference between hurting someone or trying to intellectually argue with someone.

No. There is a huge difference for you, because you are picking up on words to prove you're right.

If I say 'I think' of 'I believe' every time I write an opinion, this forum would be a little more boring than it is. Get off the high moral horse, cowboy, you're going to fall - still didn't answer the 'shitstorm on shitstorm' part.

As for the rest: I seriously don't care enough *shrug*

 

[Fluffywolf]

No. There is a huge difference for you, because you are picking up on words to prove you're right.

If I say 'I think' of 'I believe' every time I write an opinion, this forum would be a little more boring than it is. Get off the high moral horse, cowboy, you're going to fall - still didn't answer the 'shitstorm on shitstorm' part.

As for the rest: I seriously don't care enough *shrug*

The most important thing of voicing your thoughts and opinions is by making sure the delivery is ACTUALLY as you intended your point. If you do not take into consideration how others read your posts, then you really should consider stopping posting at all, because your input will be regularly misinterpretted and will not help the consensus at all.

I always take into consideration on how to deliver my opinion, and take every possible angle in regard concerning my thoughts. I suppose I have an advantage being Ti dom. But it's not too much to ask from anyone else either.

Everyone is able to realize that saying you think someone is fake and saying they are in fact fake will both be interpretted differently to the reader and if you do not care about how your words are interpretted, then your opinion by default should be considered as bullshit by the consensus. Even in the rare cases you accidentally voice your opinion in the proper wording, we can't really know if you make no effort whatsoever in that direction, no?

 

[The Outsider]

How can a person not be himself? Whatever he does, he is still being himself.

If he likes to act, then that's just who he is.

 

[wolfy]

How can a person not be himself? Whatever he does, he is still being himself.

If he likes to act, then that's just who he is.

That's an interesting point. But, you'd need to know whether a person was acting or not to see their acting as reflecting their personality and their tendency to act.

 

[Qre:us]

Victor, please don't go there - makes you an easy target. You don't understand culture from the above statement or the concept of identity for any given member on the forum being made up of multiple cultures. The assumption of a single cultural influence for any of us is a false start.

With every defensive answer, the "Kick me" sign on his back grew........

That's the flavor I'm getting and it sucks. I'd like strawberry instead please and it better have real strawberries. None of that stuff with artificial flavoring!

So refreshing, you understand!

My #2 pet peeve in this world, after blatant unfairness/cruelty, pretentiousness. Following toe to toe with righteous ignorance.

1. What is culture or identity in the context of an online identity?

I'd say, not very much, if at all. Unless the forum you've joined is specifically about a cultural identity.

For TypeC type forums, I think individuals' cultures become important if:
(1) they need clarification understanding something given the cultural block. Say, English is not their first language, or its a cultural meme that they're not familiar with, etc.

(2) The particular topic of discussion. If it's relevant to cultural identities, then, discussing where one is coming from and all that they know of their own cultures, can add a richness to the discussion.

2. How do we measure or determine how guarded or open one is on an online forum?

I don't even think it's relevant to measure it. Be as guarded as you like, be as open as you like. Your choice.

Just don't mix up the two for your audience. I.e., be guarded, but say you're open. Be open, but say you're a timid wallflower. (unless you're joking )

It's asking for a reactionary response from the audience........the question that's implicitly asked through such contradictions, is, 'are you buying it?'

Should it measured by the level of personal detail one is willing to offer?

No.

Does a higher level of personal detail imply a greater level of sincerity in reflecting one's RL views/opinions?

No.

For me, it's the genuineness of the discourse that matters from online forums. As, written discourse is our only ties to one another.

Give genuinely to that, don't mask, shape-shift, present false information as truth, muddy facts, etc. And, I don't even care if I believe the position I may be arguing, or if you do........but, I can't explain it, there's still an genuineness, a responsibility to present the thought as openly as possible, and be open to the responses piqued by that thought, which matters to me.

Does the anonymity that is offered to us here (it is a choice, you know at both ends ) provide us a safe space to present our views/opinions openly in a way that the personal details would inhibit us in real life?

Most certainly. I would not be as open as I am online, if I was tied to my tangible identity. As I don't know the people on this forum. Being tied to my tangible identity, and being open is fine and great IRL, as those are my trusted FRIENDS & FAMILY. I can't trust most of the people here, as I don't know who they are. So, of course, I'd just want to be free to share my thoughts without ties to my tangible identity. E.g., I would not want my supervisors coming upon a post of mine discussing how I am turned on by gay men, as a straight female and the intricate details of why I have that taste. But, I love that I can share this online, and have a discourse of this thought of mine, that very rarely do I get to discuss as openly, IRL.

3. Finally, why should this matter at all?

Nope. It shouldn't.

Except........when the person in question is ASKING for it to matter.

I really am x, y, z, BUY ME!! BUY ME!!!!!!!

One then has permission to respond.

Precisely because it's an international forum, distance and details become less important than more. When we don't present our views as tied to particular contexts, we allow people to see us for us - not tied to stereotypical images of the environments in which we reside. More similarities and differences based on personality type - after all, isn't that what brings us here?

Well said.

 

[Qre:us]

How do you define being yourself? If you write a skill on your application form that does not fit you in order to get a better chance at a job.

Makes you a liar for all intent and purposes of the definition of a liar.

Doesn't that action itself define who you are, for it was clearly important to you to do that?

Shows that you are willing to lie to get what you want, yes.

That said, I'm personally not convinced with that arguement, that he has a certain intentional agenda. Definatly not in the intention of the person concerning the arguement. But whatever his reasons may be, he is still himself. So that arguement whatever his reasons are, are not important in the point I made.

Let the guy post as he will. If it truly bothers anyone, it's their shortcoming.

Absolutely!

Nothing wrong with Victor's persona.

Fluffy, it's an intentional persona (I dunno what you mean by intentional agenda)......those who have talked to him on Skype, knows that he does not talk the way he posts here. He's quite different.

Regardless, none of that is neither here nor there. Be whoever you want to be, even if it is a character, a persona...........just own it. That's all. Own it.

Don't blatantly claim to not be something (not jokingly), when your act is the opposite; it implies that you consider your audience to be gullible enough to buy it.

And, that's where the issue stops being just his concern, and becomes our concern, as he's putting this act off on us. And asking us to swallow it as real. It offends my intelligence.

Heh. It seems to me that Victor is the most misunderstood member, if we're giving out titles here.

Absolutely. It's cuz he's not giving of himself to be understood, just a slice of his reality.

Personally, I would miss Victor's posts terribly if he left. My issue has nothing to do with the content of his posts, so I'd be worse off ignoring his posts.

I don't go after people who don't ask for it. Victor, earlier in the thread, asked for it. He wanted people to talk about his type, and wanted to know how others saw him (attention-seeking...as he knew this thread was not about him/his type, but, stroked those convos about him, regardless).....he asked first, hence, we responded. He just wasn't expecting this turn of events.

Be careful what you wish for.

That's a start. So I am a "- - F -". That's one letter out of four. But I think the first letter is the most important, so do you think I am an I or an E?

Ah, we are getting there. So far I am an IxFP. There is only one letter to go. I wonder what I am. Will it change my life? Four is a nice number, a nice round number. And four squared is my lucky number 16. But I don't want you to think I am superstitious or anything. And nor do I want you to think I am into numerology. No, what I want to know is the second letter of my type.

What do you think it is?

"Yet another [thread] devolves into a Victor-centric discussion. The man has talent.
-InaF3157"

 

[Fluffywolf]

Ahem, we all use this forum in order to attain attention. If we didn't we wouldn't get past the lurking stage.

Either way, wether or not the attack on Victor was meant as said or not, I said what I thought was right and I still have no problem with Victor as he still isn't harming anyone. Whilest clearly it seemed people do wish to harm him.

And just for the sake of arguement though. Would you also say a scizophrenic person (Not saying Vic is like that, but I don't know him that well, for all I care he could be.) isn't allowed to get psychological help because he is lying? Is it so weird that a person has a different kind of persona when writing on a forum as opposed to talking on a camera? I know I'm different on cam. In fact, I know all introverts are.

I still absolutely see no reason to retract my earlier statements. And I'm not convinced with Victor's so-called "lies".

 

[Qre:us]

Ahem, we all use this forum in order to attain attention. If we didn't we wouldn't get past the lurking stage.

Either way, wether or not the attack on Victor was meant as said or not, I said what I thought was right and I still have no problem with Victor as he still isn't harming anyone. Whilest clearly it seemed people do wish to harm him.

Harm him, how?

He asked for people to critique his supposed type. He ASKED. People did. Of course, a likely point that's bound to come up is if we could really type "Victor" as what he posts is likely a persona.

We're a Typology forum. Different personality types. This is a likely discussion on this forum. And, it's a likely criticism that someone who is asking to be typed cannot be typed so because he hasn't presented who he is, really.

Do you not understand the logic in this? I think you're Fe-eling too much on the topic, rather than trying to understand the motivations of those that criticiqued him and how it came about.

And just for the sake of arguement though. Would you also say a scizophrenic person (Not saying Vic is like that, but I don't know him that well, for all I care he could be.) isn't allowed to get psychological help because he is lying? Is it so weird that a person has a different kind of persona when writing on a forum as opposed to talking on a camera? I know I'm different on cam. In fact, I know all introverts are.

Different persona is fine. I said that many times in my earlier posts. You missed my main point. Own it. Own that there's different personas presented. Don't deny when someone says that you indeed have different personas.

Those with mental illness are exempt from this as it's not them, but their mental illness speaking. I don't see the analogy.

If it's a disorder that's making Victor act the way he does, I retract all my statements, and apologize, as the point of typing him, or analyzing him, should have been moot at that point.

I still absolutely see no reason to retract my earlier statements. And I'm not convinced with Victor's so-called "lies".

Okay.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Okay.

My issue was not with you nor most of the posts in the thread. Just the fact that Victor was seemingly accused of pretty much being a rat face liar trying to manipulate people. Which I admit I found amusing but also very wrong. Since I do not believe he really has any ill intent. So I found that accusation disturbing. Later on the earlier accuser excused himself by saying he didn't 'really' mean it in that way but he just didn't clarify. He meant to say he believed Victor to be a liar, but wasn't actually sure. Had he said just that, the intent of his post wouldn't have been as disturbing as it was without clarification. So whatever, discussion was over.

The fact remains that Victor isn't here to manipulate or harm people. And I'm pretty sure about that. (Because if he was, he is really really bad at it.)

So people seemingly were abusive towards him, for no apparant reason. It wasn't Fe-tripping. It was just my Ti spotting some patterns and not liking what I saw. As it wasn't Vic that should've been accused of anything, but the ones being abusive towards him in my opinion. So I wanted to break that trend before it escalated. That at least seemed to have worked, but now the discussion isn't even relevant anymore.

 

[Mole]

what I perceive here is him [Victor] being a victim of pointless bullying. And that happens like every month or so

The problem is that I have discovered my own voice. And like anybody who discovers their own voice, it is unique.

I am, though, surrounded by those who have yet to discover their own voice. And so their voice is not yet unique.

And not yet having a unique voice of their own they must speak in the conformist voice. So each of them insists they are a unique individual, but all speak in the same voice.

But it is worse than that because they are proud that they have learnt to speak in the conformist style - they have all the pride of an obedient child.

And even worse, they think everyone should speak in the conformist style. And the technique they use to get you to conform is called group bullying.

So every month or so I am subject to group bullying.