Type confusion

[Evan]

Enneagram type 2 seems to pretty much rule out INTP and INTJ. Look into INFJ...

[falling2fast]

Originally Posted by nightning

Have you taken the cognitive function survey? Answer it based on who you are in a relax setting and perhaps that can be useful in identifying your type.

Ok. That's crazy! I just took it and got these results:

Extraverted Sensing = 27
Introverted Sensing = 20
Extraverted Intuiting = 37
Introverted Intuiting = 22
Extraverted Thinking = 40.4
Introverted Thinking = 43.2
Extraverted Feeling = 18.6
Introverted Feeling = 31.8

Suggested type: ENTP


I can see the SE > SI and FI > FE, but I really don't understand the NE > NI and TI > TE.

[Economica]

Originally Posted by Usehername

INTJs tend to deeply identify with the description; there are relatively few INTJs who aren't sure about their type.

This is my experience also.

Originally Posted by falling2fast

Thanks. That helps. I am pretty convinced that I am an INTJ. Like I said, I always test INTJ. However, the more I talk to my wife about it, the more I get confused because I do have strong tendencies toward other type characteristics. Plus, she knows me objectively probably better than I know myself at this point.

In another echo of Usehername: Really? I can't quite imagine an INTJ whose spouse was mistyping them giving them this much credit.

I'm thinking that your gender, possibly your education/profession and especially having an ENTJ wife could have influenced you toward admiring NTJ qualities enough that you turn out INTJ on tests despite being e.g. INFP...? I know my ex, an ENFP, tested as the INTJ equivalent on this MBTI spoof test (this was before we heard about MBTI) after a couple of years of listening to me eulogize rationality.

Edit: This is not to put too much stock in your wife's typing. There are ENTJs out there who would type all ITJs as F and P.

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by falling2fast

Ok. That's crazy! I just took it and got these results:

Extraverted Sensing = 27
Introverted Sensing = 20
Extraverted Intuiting = 37
Introverted Intuiting = 22
Extraverted Thinking = 40.4
Introverted Thinking = 43.2
Extraverted Feeling = 18.6
Introverted Feeling = 31.8

Suggested type: ENTP


I can see the SE > SI and FI > FE, but I really don't understand the NE > NI and TI > TE.

So INFP is a possibility.

Someone (INFP actually, who by the way used to think she was ENTP) told me that how you see yourself affects your personality. So perhaps you see yourself as INTJ and that gives the unclarity over whether you're INFP or INTJ.

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by falling2fast

I am quite confused about my type. I pretty much always test myself as INTJ; however, my wife usually tests me as other types. The last test she answered for me resulted in INFP.

I have read the descriptions of various types. When the personalitypathways.com site was up, I broke it down into classes. I identify most with the introverted intuitives, extraverted thinkers, and introverted feelers. However, each of those descriptions apply to the classes having those dominate functions. I believe that I do identify fairly equally with the descriptions of the INTJ, INFJ, and INFP. I do identify somewhat with the INTP, but not nearly as much as the others.
I can explain pretty thoroughly why I believe that I am an INTJ. However, I can explain pretty thoroughly why I could be other types as well. I realize that many people do have more than one main type. I am trying to narrow down my strongest function order so that my wife and I can learn to relate better. She is definitely an ENTJ.

The kicker is that I am undeniably an Enneagram type 2. I would like to think I am more of a 9, but I cannot even fool myself. INTJ does not correlate with Enneagram type 2.

Would someone please help me?

According to this page:
Type Correlations
If you are quite sure you are Enne. 2,
and if you're fairly certain you are an I,
the most likely possibilities would be ISFJ, INFP, ISFP and INFJ.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by falling2fast

Thanks. That helps. I am pretty convinced that I am an INTJ. Like I said, I always test INTJ. However, the more I talk to my wife about it, the more I get confused because I do have strong tendencies toward other type characteristics. Plus, she knows me objectively probably better than I know myself at this point.

Maybe not.

It's always interesting to see men identify with Two's. I don't think it happens very regularly; and in fact, women tend to mistype themselves as Two's in western society because of cultural influences. So already it's rare... and when you call yourself an INTJ -- well, that's not very Two-like at all by the typical standard. However, INTJs do regularly identify as One's.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your wife's masculine-style nature (ENTJ) automatically makes you look more Two-ish in comparison, and you might have been forced to pick up more Two-ish behaviors because she wasn't probably fulfilling that role in your marriage? I'm just curious, since I don't have a lot of information to go on.

I see later in the thread you're questioning your INTJ type. That's another approach to this as well. Frankly, I have no idea what to make of your cognitive function test except that somewhere in this puzzle, there's confusion over how you're answering the questions since the answers are conflicting depending on which test you're taking or how you're doing the assess.

[falling2fast]

Admittedly, I am somewhat prejudiced toward some types. However, I am comfortable with the idea of being an NF.

As a young kid, while I could still see, I would spend days on end doing nothing but playing video games. I wouldn't even stop to eat. I still rarely stop working to eat. I have always preferred things over people. I understand people, but they rarely understand me. I have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and understanding. I am very strict and unreasonable with many people, holding them to a very high standard. I am compassionate, and feel the need to help people when I can. Still, I would rather invest my time and energy toward things that would help larger groups of people as apposed to individuals. I could even see myself saving things from a fire over people. Now, I know that I wouldn't make that choice in a real situation. More realistically, I would probably come up with a way to do both.

Externally, I am orderly, precise, and calculated. I watch pretty much everything I say very closely. My wife says that I can talk liberally and fix things later, but I know that that is not true. At least in the sense that I wouldn't have the energy to get myself out of the trouble my cold-hearted words would cause. I tend to think critically; I choose to say a more diplomatic version. I want to be early to appointments, and always plan on being late to leave. At minimum, I want to have an idea of what will happen in the future. I have a strong need to be in control of things that directly affect me. However, internally, my world is quite chaotic. My thoughts are rarely organized. It takes a great amount of effort to make them presentable to others. I know intuitively what or how I think, but I need things to be malleable inside to accommodate new ideas, impressions, etc. I am very calm and relaxed but can be quite intense. I go with the flow easily, but I prefer to have a firm grasp on structure.

I hope this helps you because it doesn't me.

[falling2fast]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Maybe not.

It's always interesting to see men identify with Two's. I don't think it happens very regularly; and in fact, women tend to mistype themselves as Two's in western society because of cultural influences. So already it's rare... and when you call yourself an INTJ -- well, that's not very Two-like at all by the typical standard. However, INTJs do regularly identify as One's.

Have you ever considered the possibility that your wife's masculine-style nature (ENTJ) automatically makes you look more Two-ish in comparison, and you might have been forced to pick up more Two-ish behaviors because she wasn't probably fulfilling that role in your marriage? I'm just curious, since I don't have a lot of information to go on.

Yes, but I think that stems more from me being blind and having to use my ability to help people to secure their help in return. Naturally, I tend to let people help themselves while monitoring their progress. It's almost a testing method. However, as this has been a mechanism I have used pretty much my entire life, I have honestly become a 2. The other is still there, but not as functional. Reading about the 2 helps me understand why I am a 2. I don't know how to relinquish that mechanism, even though I know now why I use it.

Originally Posted by Jennifer

I see later in the thread you're questioning your INTJ type. That's another approach to this as well. Frankly, I have no idea what to make of your cognitive function test except that somewhere in this puzzle, there's confusion over how you're answering the questions since the answers are conflicting depending on which test you're taking or how you're doing the assess.

Is it possible that I am attempting to alter my personality to accommodate my new understanding of myself, my situation, and my need to approach life differently? I have read about how people have shadow types which are manifested under extreme stress? My marriage has been very rocky for quite some time. I recently lost my job and have been searching for a new one. We have had two kids in the last three years. I am not meaning to imply that my personality is very unstable; I do not change drastically. I am fairly consistent, yet I do have a wide range of aspects of myself which I can switch comfortably to fit the need of the times. In the end, I just want to lock myself in with my computer and write programs or listen to music. I would like to have someone whom I am close to be with me, but not necessarily interacting directly.

I have been told that INTJs vary in personality more so than INTPs or other types. Is that true?

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by falling2fast

Yes, but I think that stems more from me being blind and having to use my ability to help people to secure their help in return.

*doh* I'm sorry, did I miss that?

Naturally, I tend to let people help themselves while monitoring their progress. It's almost a testing method. However, as this has been a mechanism I have used pretty much my entire life, I have honestly become a 2. The other is still there, but not as functional. Reading about the 2 helps me understand why I am a 2. I don't know how to relinquish that mechanism, even though I know now why I use it.

I guess at this point different views of type come into play: I tend to see type as more inherent, and thus behaviors running counter to type for survival purposes aren't necessary comfortable if they conflict with the underlying type.

if you are a behavioralist and think type is merely a collection of behaviors people use as tools to achieve their ends (or some variation on that), then you can talk about "becoming a particular type."

When I see someone with inconsistent type traits, i tend to see the former as more likely -- that you have some innate sense of self and preferences but over the years you learned to mimic other types that would enable you to survive. So I wouldn't say you're a Two, I'd say you learned how to emulate Two behaviors in order to thrive in life. And the discrepancy here is between your Two behaviors and your underlying preferences -- which might not be as obvious now since you couldn't really pursue them openly due to your situation...

Is it possible that I am attempting to alter my personality to accommodate my new understanding of myself, my situation, and my need to approach life differently?

I suspect that you have another type under the surface but you've been forced to assume more of a caretaker stance in order to ensure that you got the cooperation you needed.

In Enneagram thought as well, there's use of Horney's three ways of dealing with people in response to internalized anxiety: Moving towards (such as what you do), Moving Against, and Moving Away. Put another way, at core, when it comes to potential conflict or personal needs, some of us try to dominate the people we see as threats or who might not give us what we need, some of us will cater to those people (to win them over), and some of us will pull away from the threat.

You couldn't really afford to dominate or move away, because you needed other people's help and well-wishes in your situation.

I'd focus on what other things seem to be part of your natural inclinations. What you like to do. What you would do instinctively if you didn't have to depend on anyone. What internal reactions you have to people's interactions with you.

I have read about how people have shadow types which are manifested under extreme stress?

When those types/functions come out, they're usually very obvious and very explosive. It's like a personal meltdown. The old ways no longer allow us to cope, so we lurch frantically into pathways we've been afraid of and which we have no real idea how to use... and because we're so stressed, we tend to wield them frantically.

My marriage has been very rocky for quite some time. I recently lost my job and have been searching for a new one. We have had two kids in the last three years. I am not meaning to imply that my personality is very unstable; I do not change drastically. I am fairly consistent, yet I do have a wide range of aspects of myself which I can switch comfortably to fit the need of the times.

That's more of a "P" aspect, where you flex to the situation. Everyone has different facets of their personalities, though, so that part isn't really an issue. We tend to show the appropriate face in each situation.

In the end, I just want to lock myself in with my computer and write programs or listen to music. I would like to have someone whom I am close to be with me, but not necessarily interacting directly.

This sounds more like a "moving away" strategy is preferred, but you can't afford to do that due to your needs and the needs of your family.

I have been told that INTJs vary in personality more so than INTPs or other types. Is that true?

I have no idea. Types obviously have some consistencies or we could never really categorize people into those types in the first place. I think within each category there are various typical "characters" that show up. I'm more acquainted with INTPs, ISFJs, and INFJs in terms of recognizing various "flavors" of the type9s); I honestly don't know INTJs well enough to have noticed various subtypes of them.

I think the Ni function could take INTJs in many different directions, both ethereal OR more concrete. INTJs have very strong wills; I've seen ones with very quiet confidence ("I am perceiving the truth and have no need to fight you") vs stubborn confidence ("No one's going to control or dominate me"), but self-doubt at least on the surface doesn't seem to be part of their makeup.

[INTJMom]

Jennifer, awesome as always.

falling2fast - totally off topic question - are you using Jaws as your screen reader?
And, if you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you lost your sight?

Whenever I am interviewing a friend or relative in order to help them decide what their type is,
I always make sure I clarify an important foundational principle of MB type theory and that is this:
Our basic type gets developed and established when we are young.
In general, we develop our dominant function between the ages of 6 and 12,
and our Auxiliary - or second function - between the ages of 12 and 25.

If the person is older than 25, I keep asking the person to think about how they used to behave when they were school-aged.

Perhaps that would help you, too.

Our basic type does not change, but as we get older, we tend to develop more balance.
We develop our 3rd function between the ages of 25 and 50,
and develop the 4th function after 50.

By the way, welcome to the forum.