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  1. #11
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    1. whats the difference between being Ne Si and Ni Se?
    2. whats the difference between secondary Fi and tertiary/aspirational Fi?
    3. the difference between Ne + Te (ENFP) and Ni + Te (XNTJ)?

    Im not sure I could be an ENTP. I would relate to the Ne, but the Ti and the Fe.... Im just not sure about that. I hate Fe (although I can do it) and I generally use Te over Ti.
    1) From what I can tell, is that Ne/Si versus Se/Ni is that Ne/Si seems inherently more scattered... Both Se and Ni types seem to have this intense focus, Se on whatever they're doing at the moment, and Ni on their train of thought. Si/Ne seems to get constantly interrupted.

    2) Secondary judgement is something you use regularly to make your decisions. Tertiary position is 'relief,' which ends up being indulgent if the person is pressed too far. Aspirational comes out even if you don't want it to and would like to refuse it, although it's usually evident as back-up for the primary. I'd almost say it's 'louder' in aspirational than tertiary.

    3) With Ne on top it'll be mostly concerned with possibilities. With Te on top, it'll be mostly concerned with getting things done right, with possibilities tagging along after with constant nagging suggestions.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #12
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    1) From what I can tell, is that Ne/Si versus Se/Ni is that Ne/Si seems inherently more scattered... Both Se and Ni types seem to have this intense focus, Se on whatever they're doing at the moment, and Ni on their train of thought. Si/Ne seems to get constantly interrupted.

    2) Secondary judgement is something you use regularly to make your decisions. Tertiary position is 'relief,' which ends up being indulgent if the person is pressed too far. Aspirational comes out even if you don't want it to and would like to refuse it, although it's usually evident as back-up for the primary. I'd almost say it's 'louder' in aspirational than tertiary.

    3) With Ne on top it'll be mostly concerned with possibilities. With Te on top, it'll be mostly concerned with getting things done right, with possibilities tagging along after with constant nagging suggestions.
    1. I have no problem with focus as soon as I decide that something is actually important. I only get in trouble when I dont assign the same value to objectives as others. Last week I sat down at 3pm to write an E-mail to a person I have been debating on a topic I would rather not bring up....at 5:00pm I realized that I had collected nearly 20 pages of quotations, "notes" and links on a word file I had opened as "Scratch paper". I then wrote a "brief" point by point email and included links where necessary. Now doing all of that could be Ne if I guess If I was supposed to be doing something else more important in those hours...but It could be Ni + Te too I guess if I had deemed the other stuff unimportant.

    2. so i guess putting Fi as 3 or 4 could still explain some of the sentimental streaks without it defining my personality (as Fi kind of does define ENFP to an extant)

    3. ... Ni as nagging suggestions to Te, or Ne as a bullet bouncing off the walls regulated by Fi... I need to think about that. The Te is what throws it all off for me, if I were to see myself as ENFP.

  3. #13
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    1. I have no problem with focus as soon as I decide that something is actually important. I only get in trouble when I dont assign the same value to objectives as others. Last week I sat down at 3pm to write an E-mail to a person I have been debating on a topic I would rather not bring up....at 10:00pm I realized that I had collected nearly 20 pages of quotations, "notes" and links on a word file I had opened as "Scratch paper". I then wrote a brief point by point email and included links where necessary. Now doing all of that could be Ne if I guess If I was supposed to be doing something else more important in those hours...but It could be Ni + Te too I guess if I had deemed the other stuff unimportant.

    2. so i guess putting Fi as 3 or 4 could still explain some of the sentimental streaks without it defining my personality (as Fi kind of does define ENFP to an extant)

    3. ... Ni as nagging suggestions to Te, or Ne as a bullet bouncing off the walls regulated by Fi... I need to think about that. The Te is what throws it all off for me, if I were to see myself as ENFP.
    1. Ni/Se can, and often does, end up having its own idiosyncratic measure of value.

    2. Yes.

    3. What you said about even recreation being 'work,' but still leisure, sounds Te, for what it's worth.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #14
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    If you believe you can learn how everything works from wikipedia, you're definitely an NF.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I actually think wikipedia is an excellent way to get the ball rolling. I can't tell you how many times I've sort of got the inklings of a theory going, hear a word or a concept I'm not to familiar with and consulted wiki and got the understanding necessary to proceed. I obviously consult much more reliable sources afterwards though.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I generally wish that real life was like a real time strategy game. complete with the top bar displaying current resources, point counts and building options. Maybe throw in a team color coded map in the lower left hand corner to make things easy... quick command keyboard short cuts would be nice too...



    I relate to the parts much more than I relate to some NF ideas. I have this fantasy with being able to simply download wikipedia directly to my brain and *know* how everything works. I generally value practical theory however. For instance, I wont waste my time learning about how an air conditioner works if I know I wont ever use that skill. However, if I wish to enter conversation with people who were bringing up physics/automechanics/brain areas etc, then I will have no problem learning about them on my own.



    the points I find to be the things I just do not relate to... I want to be respected for my accomplishments, achievements and especially ideas. I realize that I have made posts on this forum that I highly personalize. However, I feel that I post here to get answers usually, not just to share my life story... I add as much story as necessary to get the best insight from others.

    longer answers:
    1. i have no problem being there for friends. however, I usually am there to solve the problem, not to just "be there". If they are not interested in actually solving the problem that is bugging them, then i consider them being a martyr. I will usually start problem solving and running contingency plans for each solution plan the moment they start telling me whats wrong.

    2. I judge my teachers based on how competent they are, not on how nice or "cool" they are. The boring classes I would make more entertaining by arguing with the teacher/professor. I would much rather respect an expert without tact, than be happy that I get along with my motivator coach.

    3. I have a theory for everything. It doesnt matter how mundane it is. I will come up with a theory about it. If I lack the means to make a theory about it...then I will research tirelessly about it. My research is not so much about collecting citations, as it is about collecting so much input that I would never be able to explain it all even if I tried. I then am able to synthesize all of that into a *POOF* = theory when I actually sit down to create the explanation.

    4. I hate Fe with a passion. I currently make Te my preferred mode of *dealing* with the world when I have to. Its just so effective. unless its someone I need to schmooze, I will be blunt and will give a shit about how they feel about it. I have a slight narcissistic streak some times: shifts from self depreciation to extreme bouts of feeling invincible (its entirely different from bi polar however...its not destructive per se). I am my own worst critic. I often suffer from inaction because I am a perfectionist, not because I actually enjoy doing nothing.

    5. When I was a kid my favorite Toys were Legos. I only wanted legos, period. When I was old enough to play the computer I would play RTS games for long long uninterrupted periods... Age of Empires, Command n Conquer, dune, SIM city, Rollercoaster tycoon, sims etc...
    Based mostly on your Te/Fe comment, I would start with ENTJ then INTJ.

  7. #17
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    If you believe you can learn how everything works from wikipedia, you're definitely an NF.
    I generally only start with wikipedia....then I move on to more specific sites or books from there. I use it as the perfect primer. wouldnt it be nice to have a primer on everything you may ever sit down to learn, already downloaded to your head? haha

  8. #18
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    You don't sound like an ENFP to me, BC. I'd guess ENTP by communication, but the content best lends to INTP or INTJ.
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  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Im not sure I could be an ENTP. I would relate to the Ne, but the Ti and the Fe.... Im just not sure about that. I hate Fe (although I can do it) and I generally use Te over Ti.
    The wanting to know how everything works part of it sounds like Ti.
    While Fe is the lowest for dom. Te types (in eight function theory, that is), what I have been seeing in NTP eight-function process test scores is that Fe comes out lower than Te and Fi; often the lowest. (Or, that might be just INTP. I'm not sure if ENTP's were the same, as there were less of them).
    So that could actually go either way.

    Perhaps the best way to think of it is to break it down by the root definitions. Do you mainly make decisions by "good and bad" judgments, or by true or false" judgments (those can still seem ambiguous, though), and then, are the judgments by internal or external standards? If you're already sure of N, that would indicate NFP, NTP or NTJ.
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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Veeery interesting.
    Yes, it is.

    But it's more the "model" approach, not linear-based deductive reasoning. If the model doesn't match, something is wrong. (Just like you can tell a face is asymmetrical without knowing exactly which part is off, even if parts of the face match parts of a person with a symmetrical face.)

    btw, I think "eye typing" is bogus. At least, unless it's combined with phrenology.
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