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  1. #1

    Default How does this sound like ?

    Hello,

    I have a bit of trouble to find my type even though tests seem to converge (I will not tell you because it will introduce bias and I probably biased myself the result by answering what I want to look like).
    Thanks in advance.

    I am a 26 years old data scientist working in France and I studied maths then engeeneering then business (double degree). I did this because I want to work on projects which involve strategy and where I can actually influence a company future. Despite being very shy and somewhat clueless in social things, I usually expect to have an influaential role on a company and somewhat to "be the best".

    At work, I usually like to work on massive projects I take care by myself (from conception to execution minus "low value" tasks like normalizing data, connecting it to the server and so on...i.e. as soon as my solution proves to have good validated (by operational people) results, I tend to be reluctant in the next cleaning steps even though I judge my program well organized and production ready.
    On the other hand, I tend to do "low value" stuff because I want to reach a better role in my company. My ideal role would be an external consultant who provide solution and give directions while also actually building solutions by myself.
    Telling me to adapt someone's work is less appealing to me and I end up generally putting my own style on code and adopting a "proprietary" philosophy of coding.

    What I HATE in work is :

    - discussing theory to challenge my idea before it has be done (if it works, there is no need to prove it theoritically)
    - following the "classical" way when I judge the steps waste of time compared to the benefit expected
    - work meeting

    In general, I am a developper 80% of the time and I like it because it helps me materialize a solution but I am not at all into "geek" things. I dislike discussing coding in a theoritical way (when I read a documentation or speak to someone, I just think "Ok what is the use of it ? Cannot they show a ****** example and speak in a simple, concrete way ?" ( I learn by trying a lot and reto-engineering code). I usually learn code fast but I am slow to use the "coding language".
    On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).

    Apart from that, I am generally very stressed ans anxious at work. I think about consequences of my actions which make me doubt. I am so on the same time quite sure and directed on my work referential but very insecure on the inside ("maybe they will not use it or discard it". While not stressed (it is not that common !), I am pretty careless of the etiquette.

    My problem solving style is always directed into finding a concept of solution (more than a really precise one : I see clearly how curves will move and process will go but implementation details can be reviewed during implementation). I like to materialize the problem by drawing matrices, plotting by hand, and so on... While alone, I also think out loud. I have also a roadmap sometimes like "ok The V1 will be this, this will do the job and have sufficient efficiency for the beginning, the V2 will add this ..." and so my V1 is ready for V2 addition before V2 has already begun.


    On a more personnal level, I like to tease people I know like my girlfriend of my parents. I say things like "do you remember when X has done this..." to trigger a conflict (a conflict I judge funny but not on a serious subject). I am very childish in the close private sphere and somewhat obssessive around things which - I guess - people will not expect from what I appear usually. I like to imagine conversations, stupid thinks like "imagine my boss will tell me "this is your new job, you replace the dog"", playing with plushes. I am impatient and impulsive. When I have an idea, I stay obsessed by it and want to do it so I buy it (goid to theme park, ski). When someone tell me "you cannot do it", I try to prove him wrong (eating a big chili pepper, going out dressed very oddly, ...).

    I would say that I love "adventure" but on the other hand I am quite anxious and physically sensitive so I procrastinate on things I judge "dangerous".

    When in love, I can do completely crazy things like going on another country to execute my plan (I succeed once) and become bery romantic. While am I very practical at work, I also enjoy fundamental things like litterature, language and mathématics. I am very competitive around these topics (and others) and so dedicate to it until overdose (in the past, I wanted to become a master in French to performn in society and so I read many books, wrote down vocabulary with extreme semantics details and so on). During my adolescent phase (16-20), I was howver of the "poet" type (reading clasical romantic books, writing books, seeing the world as doomed, imagining me as a kind of dark knight, etc.) and wanted to leave engineering (my pragmatical part told me otherwise).
    I am very concerned to expressing ideas and thoughts in the more accurate way possible.

    I generally want to do many things and end up doing not that mluch because my time is short and I prefer doing nothing that doing it half. This frustratres me.

    Here are also some random insights :

    - I am somewhat paranoïd (in a sane way but I imagine hidden agenda everywhere)
    - I do not like people stating problems and complaining about it without proposing solutions
    - I HATE when people state judgements and then retreat when - angry - I told them to support their thinking, I can become very arrogant and angry at these moments
    - I do not like people having an opinion and so accepting verything related instead of considering cases separately given context
    - I can cry easily and I see pros and cons to be seen crying
    - I am not able to relax, almost never
    - I do not like sanbox games, an action must have a mean else it is waste of time
    - I challenge mainstream ideas and HATE when people tell me "we do it because thie is the way to do/ because it is polite/ etc." (I consider it hypocrisy or pointless actions)
    - I usually value PERSONNAL points on view as long as they are not stating something as truth (I consider that there is no truth about everything). I love the ones who gives a "color" of their judgement instead of prosaic material
    - I HATE people who speak about the director of a movie instead of the movie itself to defend it (I do not care about who done what, I care about the "what")
    - I can in some way be "influenced" easily by esoteric thinking since there is no proff it is wrong. I do not think it is true but it might be. I so had a hard time with Tarot since I could'nt prove it wrong and these cards have a lot of allegory inside which helps to make decisions. I am not a real "religious" person but somehow I seek to find meaning in an general way of thinking
    - I am of "all or nothing"
    - I prefer seeing a word, an idea as a painting than on a single point (I do not like synonyms because they do not capture meaningful differences, I do not like putting judgement everywhere when it is not justified and does not add value - destroys it instead)

  2. #2
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Talks about:

    Ni - processes in time
    Te - "provide solution and give directions"
    Fi - talking about likes/dislikes
    Se - "My problem solving style is..." etc.

    (Ne - "Here are also some random insights" , afterthought rather than conclusion, so I would say it's not in the main stack)

    So my vote is INTJ.

    Also, data science is the area I am looking to go into! I study maths, largely because I found it the easiest subject for me to stick with, but I enjoy anything abstract.

    What do you think of a Feeling type going into data science? :P I'm unsure if I will be satisfied with it since I can't align my values with it too easily, and also I'm not great with computers. :/

  3. #3
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    On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).
    My INTJ boyfriend would spend hours and energies talking about inconsistencies in a movies, he would be outraged if physics wasn't respected in making a scene etc.
    Also I've seen something looking like Si and Ti... couldn't he be INTP?

  4. #4
    Junior Member Keila's Avatar
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    I like to imagine conversations, stupid thinks like "imagine my boss will tell me "this is your new job, you replace the dog"", playing with plushes. I am impatient and impulsive.
    This wreaks of Ne and that last part seems anti-J

    I am somewhat paranoïd (in a sane way but I imagine hidden agenda everywhere)
    That looks Ne as well.

    In general, I am a developper 80% of the time and I like it because it helps me materialize a solution but I am not at all into "geek" things. I dislike discussing coding in a theoritical way (when I read a documentation or speak to someone, I just think "Ok what is the use of it ? Cannot they show a ****** example and speak in a simple, concrete way ?" ( I learn by trying a lot and reto-engineering code). I usually learn code fast but I am slow to use the "coding language".
    On the "geek" note, I hate also people discussing about things that are pointless, like "there is an inconsistency in Star Wars" (common boy, this a an entairtainment movie, we do not care).

    My problem solving style is always directed into finding a concept of solution (more than a really precise one : I see clearly how curves will move and process will go but implementation details can be reviewed during implementation). I like to materialize the problem by drawing matrices, plotting by hand, and so on... While alone, I also think out loud. I have also a roadmap sometimes like "ok The V1 will be this, this will do the job and have sufficient efficiency for the beginning, the V2 will add this ..." and so my V1 is ready for V2 addition before V2 has already begun.
    This kinda strikes me as Ti-Ne..with Ti being in the lead because of focusing less on the theoretical.

    I find that I always want to ask Ti-potentials if they enjoy jigsaw puzzles. >.>

  5. #5

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    Thanks for your reply !

    For The first guy (sorry I am on mobile mode and cannot de your post while typing) :

    Even of I am Data Scientist, I do ont think I am the traditionnal one compared to other people in my teams so I may not provide you a real overview of the field.
    For my point of view, there are two important things to ne effective fie fulfilling this role : open-mindness and operational thinking. To sum up, it is like being a modeler who seek to represent reality using mathematical tool and being eager to do not have preconception around which method should address this kind of problem.
    In a way, the best is to see maths as a tool and not as a truth holder. I would say emotion can carry some opinion on solution which I like more than general solutions which are not contextual.
    Many of my colleagues are more on the reverse way of thinking and I know one who produce I think better solutions at the end of the day but makes a lot more time to make it work...when it works !

    ---

    Regarding my typing, I doubt I am really an INTP since I have no real inner logic. I am more of a contextual thinker.
    Taking the example of logic in entairtainment movie (or Sci Fi/esoteric ones), I do not like talking about it since I actually do not care and I think this is waste of time since this is not the aim and the framework of the movie (the aim is just to entairtain).
    When seeking out something in movies, I am more of getting the global smell of the movie : either a sensory one or a insight or a kind of "meaning" or a lesson.
    I relate more to Ni in a way that I see my mind as a collection of unordered paradigms which can contradict themselves but which can all have practical use even used in combination. I would even say that I not even see them as paradigms but as continuous yet volatile component of an inner see.
    I do accept rhetoric and finds it funny since I generally finds more the result than the correctness. I like pointing out inconsistencies in reasonning but more for the purpose of "winning".
    I think I also hold a LOT of contradictions in myself and find it natural since they are not on the same world. Like I hate pure philosophers but end up being a kind of one sometimes. I cannot stand pointless movies but like Jackass. This appears contradictory to people I relate but for me it is normal since there are hidden contextual beliefs behind (it has more to do generally with values than pure logic even if I try to explain it to myself and others in terms of logic).
    So here is the spoiler : I generally type as INTJ (obviously very turbulent). I generally do not relate well with INTP in terms of functions since I do not feel any Ti in me (apart from occasional use of it). I think as young I played with Tx on a blog on pointless topics but I usually do not LIKE to think that much (gives me headaches).
    I would more eventually refer to shy ENTP but it seems unlikely.
    I do not really care about precise typing (reality is continuous afterall, it is pointless to model it as exclusive classes apart from production purposes) but I would like to have a hint on personnal functions to help me perform better. The only thing I am sure is my enneagram which is either 4w3 or 3w4.

  6. #6
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    Why not ENTJ? You kind of strike me more as a Te dom than a Ni dom...

  7. #7
    Junior Member Keila's Avatar
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    In my experience..

    Te typically appears very organized and structured.
    Strong Ne usually looks like chaos. >.> or very scattered.

    Te tries to get to the end result in the most efficient way possible so might be slower to take action while figuring out what's efficient.
    Ne user will launch right in and reassess a million times along the way, and eventually get there but realize it would have been much faster if they had just done 'X'.

    Te users I've come across like to make factual or absolute statements.
    Ne users (including myself) tend to make alot of hesitant "maybe this or that" type statements. Out loud brain storming happens but they'll make a statement one minute, change their mind and then contradict it as new information occurs to them. I(INTP) personally struggle to make any kind of absolute statement unless I'm dead certain I can support it. I've caught Te users making a statement that sounded like fact, but they were really just guessing (and wrong).

    As Legion stated, Ne will make a bunch of random insights, go down rabbit trails, or jump a conversation to something seemingly unrelated to what was being talked about before because their mind went somewhere else but they failed to properly segway so everyone ends up blinking at them like "what are you talking about?"

    Te users that I know do like making charts, graphs, lists... I will make lists as well, but mostly cause I'll forget if I don't. I like reading charts and graphics as a means of getting a quick summary or overall picture of what's going on. Data comparison. I don't typically enjoy making them.

    I do not like sanbox games, an action must have a mean else it is waste of time
    I could just be and odd INTP or Ne user because I don't like sandbox games either. I know plenty of Ne users that do, but I typically like having a point to what I'm doing.

    Despite being very shy and somewhat clueless in social things,
    Maybe it's just the small subset of INTJs I've been around, but they never struck me as socially clueless. In fact, just the opposite actually. Of course, that doesn't mean they always played nice with the social structure or adapted themselves to fit in.

    I hope you can glean some information from all that...?

  8. #8

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    Hello guys,

    I come back from a afternoon in theme park and I finally found my answer (not really one in a logical term in fact but sufficient meaning for me).
    Pardon my wording in advance, I am not native english speaker.

    During this afternoon, I read a lot of content accross forum around Ni/Ne, types and so on. But to be honest I found most of content not even conclusive and generally too abstract to be used as it is. The thing which bothered me a lot was that most of the insights was reviewing BEHAVIOUR and TASTES instead of actually disserting about FUNCTIONS and DIRECTIONS.

    To make you understand how I came to the following conclusion (I am here to have insight about me afterall ^^), I will tell you how it came to me. After a lot of read, my brain was quite painful and I saw that trying to draw conclusion from what I read will not push me to success, I gave up and just left it as it was. I then went to a coaster (I enjoy speed and things which "saturate" my senses so that my brain goes zen) and finally - I don't remember and know how - but at the exit I had a "vague" (in terms of wording) but meaningful (for me) answer.
    I do not remember well because I then refined on it but here is what I wrote down (not original though but close to the beginning) :

    Ne Ti ! Ne extracts potential to solve problem in reality and inner abstract logic will process it
    Ni Te : some potential will emerge internally from immediate experience and will be tried to be fit in concrete process
    Now I see it, I see it is a bit different now but here is the idea : ordering of the functions does not change acting process and necessities.
    I read a lot about Ni "just seeing the answer" or being a kind of "prediction tool from the void" and I think this is basically bullshit.
    A potential or a link exists if points exist. In a more intelligible way : intuition exhibist candidates arrows which exist bewteen objects or which derive from object. I say potential because in any system, this is LOGIC which is the rule decidor and validator, that is why intuition is labelled as a "perceiving function". In that way, we always need data...without data, no intuition.

    From common sense : data ==> intuition ==> logic/feeling ==> action. It is the concrete case of action. I will not dissert about the generalization of this to steps and so on because it is not the topic here.

    So what is the point of this ?

    Based on this cartography, we can more concretely captures function in our personnal life. What is a function ? A function is at core an "object" which transforms input into output. What if we add the notion of extra/intraversion ?
    I would say that an introverted function tends to act like a HardDrive. Introversion means "directed toward inner self". That means that a way to know what you use more as is to see what you stores most when you live your life and what you crave for. While watching a movie tonight, I saw me "processing to store" MEANING and FEELING. Why I know that ? Because who says INTROVERTED STORAGE and PERSPECTIVE says also REFLECTION. REFLECTION is an intepretation process which translates and adapt content to inner self.

    This leads us to a second insight about it : because it is intepreted and stored inside, these functions tend to be more STABLE in thei manifestation while EXTROVERTED ones are more volatile and contextual (I do not say convergent or divergent, all judgements are convergent and perceptions are at least flat)
    Why ?

    Because a function which is exteroverted is based on external immediate data. An extroverted function is mainly a "script" function : it gives an input to another function. Because it is directed towards external world (judging) or just lived in present (perceiving), it is not hold inside and so will not constitute a remaining experience.
    I managed to see it in the cinema. I was sitted and some people (especially one) were laughing out loud then being serious, etc. This is a sign of Fe in a way the emotion triggered is shared among others and vanishes (their mood changes quickly). As for myself, I had a more internal approach to the movie. I was actually more sad about the movie. My judgement about this was STABLE whereas I observed the traditionnal "contagion" of laugh around. I do not know if I was clear.
    I also saw my Te+Fi in action while hearing this. Angryness raised fast ("can this f***g s***t stop laufghing like a retard ?") and I cannot help me think about moving from my seat. I had this action in head, just change my seat but at the same time I felt trapped by my inner values (integrity, politeness) and I tought that I couldn't act like that since I wanted order in this room (I am completly anti-chaos in the inner world but accepts it in my head, not really chaos inside but "impressionist painting"). But I felt too bad hearing it, so I just done it.

    This example and another will support somethng else : behavioural analysis made to infer preferred functions is pointless.
    @Keila : can you elaborate on why yu do not like sanboxes ? What does "pointless" means to you ? I think there is possibly a proof of my point. I will not say mine not to influence you.

    So come back to me. Why do I label me as xNTJ now ?
    Because my logic is directed outside. I do not stores it (proof : I fogot half of my demonstration in my car, I had cool things but now...), I use an external reference to it (classic logic and practical validation) and I want it to materialize in world as an "object" (I want things to be done my way and can be quite bossy when not in a "shy" situation).

    Concerning Ne and Ni, I have come to a way to tell them apart. First, notice that intuition is something unconscious. To compare it with a programming language, intuition is a "bytecode" : something we see as a black box but efficient. It shows candidates bonds. For me Ne, as an extroverted perceiving function captures a possibility in the outside world. But as an extroverted function, its result is volatile. There are two routes to follow : going up in the environement (saying out loud to someone for example "you see that knurr ? It could be used to burn fire" or processed by a judging function to acheive an internal or external action. Ti will process it to draws a conclusion an see if it possible). Ni however is an inner stored connection inducer. Some people label it as "predictive" because it is more stable (because introverted). In fact, it is stupid to say that Ni or Ne is more able to predict since seeing the future is impossible. Actually the quality of the forecast is not defined by its result but by its insight (that is why I consider forecast to be like the intuition function, the decision being strategic) but it is another topic. Ni relies more on inner experienced language, that is all...not a superpower of something far-fetched like I read all the time.
    In my case, I know I favor Ni because I thrive by inner meaning. I usually do not search for logic or organization/building inside but for meaning/meta-view. I store "potential" and spheres of meaning (a word for me has a color, that is why the word "reflection" was pushed to my head tonight even if I NEVER reflect on it, it had contextual and personnal meaning on its own and was also a Te translation of Ni).
    I am also certainly not Fe because I never use external reference for feeling and not has a direction toward creating an external feeling sphere for the sake of it (i.e. outside serving own motives). I also keep F for myself and live it internally.

    For the E/I part, I think I am more I in general but I would label me as shy ambivert. I love making presentation and I am also quite good communicator when prepared. Professors always told me they did not expect I was capable of it (since I am very shy and solitary). Especially, I am good at explaining clearly my point and supporting it interactively from a chart.

    @Keila : When I said clueless, I would best say : clueless in making bond in the traditionnal way (feeling). I however not that bad to see social patterns. I went to a one week sport holiday and my objective was to live my dreamed inner self by being the "social butterfly", being a kind of VIP who jumped from group to group. I also wanted to pickup a bit :p I end up making crazy things I did not suspect and was quite successful at it (picking up too, someone told me "wo you are the man !"). I like being the centre of attention, trying "thrilling" social things. But I fear failure and am very low in my confidence of being capable of staying emotionally stable. I generally feel intense emotions. I am afraid of making the wrong thing and so killing my whole plan. Therefore, I am very shy in a constant environment (work, school) and in general. This kind of periods are rare.

    To finish, I will add that there is no proof that we cannot switch functions. Why would someone who value logic use BOTH type of thinking ? Common sense, fact that life is continuous and even Jung label extra/intro- vert movements as fluctuating and not clear boundaries. Therefore I would say that this labels more inclination but not generalize to all action. Adding to it MOTIVES (enneagram) and you will end up not trying to infer things from behaviour.

  9. #9
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    To finish, I will add that there is no proof that we cannot switch functions.
    Correct: in fact, we use all 8 functions, and we use these through the function order of multiple types.

    For example, an INTJ has generally a fairly well developed INTP side and vice versa, and within those 2 are contained all 8 functions.

    I am glad that you've come to a firm conclusion on your function use.

    For my point of view, there are two important things to ne effective fie fulfilling this role : open-mindness and operational thinking. To sum up, it is like being a modeler who seek to represent reality using mathematical tool and being eager to do not have preconception around which method should address this kind of problem.
    In a way, the best is to see maths as a tool and not as a truth holder.
    This is what I fear in going in this direction... as an INFJ, I prefer Ti to Te, but on the other hand, I have a well developed ESTJ side, so likely it would be a collaboration between the Ni and Te dominants of each respective side, so an INTJ is probably better suited to it since they can just look at it from the one perspective.

    Although, I'm thinking about it more, and deciding it may not be the path for me, and even when I thought it was, it was only going to be a temporary path, and I had planned to move into another area. Instead, I am currently thinking that I will do further studies, and while this will prolong being in a poor financial position, it should be good in the long run as I can get into a more suitable area at a better pace.

    On the other hand, I could be overthinking the importance of type for doing jobs like this or any other, and time will tell what path I go down.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Keila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoulcherDeChartres View Post
    @Keila : can you elaborate on why yu do not like sanboxes ? What does "pointless" means to you ? I think there is possibly a proof of my point. I will not say mine not to influence you.
    There's no end goal. I have no absolute need to reach the end goal when there is one, but without any kind of goal, I have no direction and nothing to work toward so I don't see a point in playing the game; or I don't know what to do in the game if I actually make myself sit down and attempt it.

    I'm curious as to the point you're trying to glean from this?

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