I suck at typing - help!

[alicia91]

I'm not good at typing people, and I'm especially bad with people I know. Please help.

My Mother – ISFJ?


- very introverted – that’s a given
- Sensor I think – not abstract or philosophical, very concrete, though idealistic (not realistic) about people
- Can’t be alone. Married 3 times, had the next husband lined up before divorcing previous guy
- Goes for losers and hopes they will change, but instead gets an alcoholic cheater and/or is abused but stays for years. We all have to hear her moaning about what a loser she’s married to but refuses to leave. Thinks they will change once …..they get a better job, life is less stressful, they go to counseling etc.
- Is critical, especially about those not really close to her. Will watch a serious movie and be critical of the actresses clothes, or nose.
- Has a very long memory and has a hard time forgiving
- Is very well-kept for her age – looks 10 years younger (could be the two facelifts), snazzy dresser – slim but always worrying about her 5 pounds
- Interests include cooking, hosting family parties, traveling to all-inclusive resorts, decorating, architecture,
- likes to go to pubs with her husband and have drinks, dance
- Works in a high-end ladies clothing store and is a top seller despite her introvertedness. Is a trained florist but prefers fashion jobs
- likes to do things for people to help them.
- does not think things through, never uses any logic to make decisions
- got a million dollar divorce settlement from my father back in the 80s. Put it in her checking account and withdrew 100,000 per year for about 10 years. Now she works for $11 an hour.
- Not good in a crisis and can't see both sides to major issues. When my sister was 18 and got pregnant, my mom practically made the appointment for the abortion for her. Also when my other sister got a false positive for a Down Syndrome when pregnant, again my mom immediately brought up termination in the first sentence she uttered. She’s got two ways of dealing with things 1) immediately take care of it - DONE! 2) not deal with it at all (sweep it under the rug)
- we are close now that I'm older but she sucked as a mother when I was young. Kind of ignored us and let us raise ourselves. Not emotionally there for us at all. No guidance and no support at the time.



My friend – ISXX?

- early 50s. Fashion design degree, worked as an assistant to Christian Dior, but then got a job as the head of ‘clothing fit’ for a major national department store. Totally up her alley since she’s a complete perfectionist about the smallest details. Can tell if a seam is off by a millimeter
- now is an interior decorator. We work together really well and are very similar in many ways but there are differences.
- Like me she’s quite analytical for an artistic type. Isn’t artsy-fartsy.
- Is more detail oriented in every way than I am. While I’m good at space planning and coming up with a concept, she’ll spend an hour fussing over the pillows, making sure the pictures are hanging exactly right.
- She notices things like incorrect spelling and grammar. She recently called a radio station to complain about one of the DJ’s grammar.
- Very socially liberal and is quite easy-going when it comes to her teen kids. Not religious. She has seen no evidence of God so she’s not religious.
- Seems to be generally quiet in a new group but chatty when comfortable or around friends – just like me.
- is super funny - has a quiet wit based on careful observations (about things going on or life in general)
- Hobbies include sewing clothes, traveling, photography, fixing up her house

 

[Jack Flak]

I have tremendous trouble typing my parents (I'm still only 2/3 sure of my dad's type), and I'm sure it's because they're my parents. They raised me, and all that jazz.

I don't think any SP would call a radio station to complain about grammar, unless she's a little "touched." That's just weird. ISTJ perhaps. Oh, from what I can tell ISFJ sounds right for your mother.

 

[Royal Xavier]

ISFJ sounds about right for your mom...I'm not as sure about your friend, but I'm thinking maybe ISTP(?)

 

[Delphyne]

Why do you think your mother is introverted? From what you wrote she seems more like an extravert. Can you tell a bit more about her critical side? In what areas does her critic show?

 

[INTJMom]

I'm not good at typing people, and I'm especially bad with people I know. Please help.

My Mother – ISFJ?


- very introverted – that’s a given
- Sensor I think – not abstract or philosophical, very concrete, though idealistic (not realistic) about people
- Can’t be alone. Married 3 times, had the next husband lined up before divorcing precious guy
- Goes for losers and hopes they will change, but instead gets an alcoholic cheater and/or is abused but stays for years. We all have to hear her moaning about what a loser she’s married to but refuses to leave. Thinks they will change once …..they get a better job, life is less stressful, they go to counseling etc.
- Is critical, especially about those not really close to her. Will watch a serious movie and be critical of the actresses clothes, or nose.
- Has a very long memory and has a hard time forgiving
- Is very well-kept for her age – looks 10 years younger (could be the two facelifts), snazzy dresser – slim but always worrying about her 5 pounds
- Interests include cooking, hosting family parties, traveling to all-inclusive resorts, decorating
- Works in a high-end ladies clothing store and is a top seller despite her introvertedness. Is a trained florist but prefers fashion jobs
- likes to do things for people to help them.
- does not think things through, never uses any logic to make decisions
- got a million dollar divorce settlement from my father back in the 80s. Put it in her checking account and withdrew 100,000 per year for about 10 years. Now she works for $11 an hour.
- Not good in a crisis and can't see both sides to major issues. When my sister was 18 and got pregnant, my mom practically made the appointment for the abortion for her. Also when my other sister got a false positive for a Down Syndrome when pregnant, again my mom immediately brought up termination in the first sentence she uttered. She’s got two ways of dealing with things 1) immediately take care of it - DONE! 2) not deal with it at all (sweep it under the rug)
- we are close now that I'm older but she sucked as a mother when I was young. Kind of ignored us and let us raise ourselves. Not emotionally there for us at all. No guidance and no support at the time.

Your mom sounds almost exactly like my ISTJ mom - except for the wasting a million dollars part. My mom would have put it in a high yield account and lived off the interest.

When you say she doesn't use logic (please forgive me, but I have 2 ISTPs in my family) I think what you might mean is that she doesn't use your kind of logic. ISTPs are awesome at coming up with solutions, and no one can hold a candle to them, in my opinion, but they also have a tendency to disdain everyone else's "logic" or solutions. So my point is, I think it's possible she could still be a "T". How old is she?

Because of what she did with the money and the travel, she sounds very P-ish.

I had a best friend for 3 years who was ISFJ and also a beloved pastor. These people are the stalwarts of society. They work quietly behind the scenes making sure everyone else gets the credit. They are exceedingly modest. The ISFJ is a super-feeler. They feel their emotions as physical feelings in their body many times and can tend toward hypochondria because of it. They don't typically care about fashion or looks, though one whose J was moderate and whose P was quite high might perhaps be moreso.

Why do you insist that she's an I?

 

[INTJMom]

...
My friend – ISXX?

- early 50s. Fashion design degree, worked as an assistant to Christian Dior, but then got a job as the head of ‘clothing fit’ for a major national department store. Totally up her alley since she’s a complete perfectionist about the smallest details. Can tell if a seam is off by a millimeter
- now is an interior decorator. We work together really well and are very similar in many ways but there are differences.
- Like me she’s quite analytical for an artistic type. Isn’t artsy-fartsy.
- Is more detail oriented in every way than I am. While I’m good at space planning and coming up with a concept, she’ll spend an hour fussing over the pillows, making sure the pictures are hanging exactly right.
- She notices things like incorrect spelling and grammar. She recently called a radio station to complain about one of the DJ’s grammar.
- Very socially liberal and is quite easy-going when it comes to her teen kids. Not religious. She has seen no evidence of God so she’s not religious.
- Seems to be generally quiet in a new group but chatty when comfortable or around friends – just like me.
- is super funny - has a quiet wit based on careful observations (about things going on or life in general)
- Hobbies include sewing clothes, traveling, photography, fixing up her house

It's hard to say.
I know some NF's or NT's who would fit this description.
I don't know any S types who care about grammar.

When you say she fusses over pillows and pictures, you have to understand the motive behind it before you can decide which dimension of MBTT is responsible for it. Is she a perfectionist or is she creating art? See what I mean?

Why do you want to know their types?

 

[Randomnity]

My opinions: your mom sounds like ISFJ, maybe ISTJ. Your friend sounds ISTJ but could be ISTP, ISFP, ISFJ, as you said, or even a detail-oriented N. Not really enough data to tell.

My analysis (NTS = not type-specific)

- very introverted – that’s a given - Ok, I
- Sensor I think – not abstract or philosophical, very concrete, though idealistic (not realistic) about people -Ok, S
- Can’t be alone. Married 3 times, had the next husband lined up before divorcing precious guy - not really type specific, maybe F or SJ
- Goes for losers and hopes they will change, but instead gets an alcoholic cheater and/or is abused but stays for years. We all have to hear her moaning about what a loser she’s married to but refuses to leave. Thinks they will change once …..they get a better job, life is less stressful, they go to counseling etc. - NF, possibly SFJ
- Is critical, especially about those not really close to her. Will watch a serious movie and be critical of the actresses clothes, or nose. -not really type-specific, possibly J
- Has a very long memory and has a hard time forgiving - not really type-specific, maybe SJ (Si)
- Is very well-kept for her age – looks 10 years younger (could be the two facelifts), snazzy dresser – slim but always worrying about her 5 pounds - maybe SJ
- Interests include cooking, hosting family parties, traveling to all-inclusive resorts, decorating, architecture - S, but not strongly
- likes to go to pubs with her husband and have drinks, dance - NTS
- Works in a high-end ladies clothing store and is a top seller despite her introvertedness. Is a trained florist but prefers fashion jobs - NTS
- likes to do things for people to help them. -FJ
- does not think things through, never uses any logic to make decisions - F
- got a million dollar divorce settlement from my father back in the 80s. Put it in her checking account and withdrew 100,000 per year for about 10 years. Now she works for $11 an hour. -NTS, maybe J
- Not good in a crisis and can't see both sides to major issues. When my sister was 18 and got pregnant, my mom practically made the appointment for the abortion for her. Also when my other sister got a false positive for a Down Syndrome when pregnant, again my mom immediately brought up termination in the first sentence she uttered. She’s got two ways of dealing with things 1) immediately take care of it - DONE! 2) not deal with it at all (sweep it under the rug) - T, maybe J
- we are close now that I'm older but she sucked as a mother when I was young. Kind of ignored us and let us raise ourselves. Not emotionally there for us at all. No guidance and no support at the time. -IT



My friend – ISXX?

- early 50s. Fashion design degree, worked as an assistant to Christian Dior, but then got a job as the head of ‘clothing fit’ for a major national department store. Totally up her alley since she’s a complete perfectionist about the smallest details. Can tell if a seam is off by a millimeter - S, maybe SJ
- now is an interior decorator. We work together really well and are very similar in many ways but there are differences. - NTS
- Like me she’s quite analytical for an artistic type. Isn’t artsy-fartsy. - NTS
- Is more detail oriented in every way than I am. While I’m good at space planning and coming up with a concept, she’ll spend an hour fussing over the pillows, making sure the pictures are hanging exactly right. - S, maybe SJ
- She notices things like incorrect spelling and grammar. She recently called a radio station to complain about one of the DJ’s grammar. - NTS, maybe J
- Very socially liberal and is quite easy-going when it comes to her teen kids. Not religious. She has seen no evidence of God so she’s not religious. -NTS, maybe T
- Seems to be generally quiet in a new group but chatty when comfortable or around friends – just like me. - I
- is super funny - has a quiet wit based on careful observations (about things going on or life in general) - NTS, maybe I or S
- Hobbies include sewing clothes, traveling, photography, fixing up her house - NTS, maybe S

 

[alicia91]

Lots of good input here. Thanks everyone.

MOM

Why do you think your mother is introverted? From what you wrote she seems more like an extravert

I know. I should have clarified. She's just like me in this aspect. Both of us are 'quiet observers' when we go out. Sits on the sidelines of the action without participating much - except with close friends. And unless she's with outgoing people (like 2/3 husbands) barely interacts with others at all. Seems drained by a lot of interaction, and never initiates conversations in groups. Isn't into any kind of group sport, social clubs, etc.

Can you tell a bit more about her critical side? In what areas does her critic show?

She's critical and complains about her husbands, kids, and their spouses. Mostly stuff like my sister's husband isn't a good provider (this is true, but hey - she married him!), her own husband didn't take her on a honeymoon (so why didn't she make sure that this got booked herself? I know I would have). I think her griping about stuff like this is stupid because, though her concerns may be legit to her and to me - who cares, let people make their own decisions about how they want to live their life. If my 40 yo BIL is still a waiter - that's his business (and my sisters). Another huge thing she is critical about is physical appearances and other shallow crap. An example that comes to mind - last week we went to see Mama Mia with our husbands and a couple of friends.

me - "wow, I can't get over how great Meryl Streep was - singing, dancing, so funny, and she also looks so great these days"
mom - "too bad she's way to old for the part and is pretty ugly."

Another recent converstation (about my 15 yo daughter)

mom - "Jen is just so beautiful, and gets more gorgeous every time I see her. The boys must be after her all the time"
me - "thanks, yes, she is a beauty"
mom - "if she's only lose 15 pounds she could be Miss America."

When you say she doesn't use logic (please forgive me, but I have 2 ISTPs in my family) I think what you might mean is that she doesn't use your kind of logic. ISTPs are awesome at coming up with solutions, and no one can hold a candle to them, in my opinion, but they also have a tendency to disdain everyone else's "logic" or solutions

She's 64.

True. My logic could be different than hers. Here's how I think - if someone around me had a serious problem like addiction I would do some research, look at the data for treatment,talk to some experts in the field - the Betty Ford center has a 75% success rate, AA has a 50% success rate? Let's book Betty Ford. My mother - I'm going to buy smaller bottles of wine and tell him that he needs to shape up if he wants to be healthy. If he values our relationship - he'll control his problem. Me - "Mom, enough is enough - isn't it time to take some concrete action?" Probably a dumb example but overall her approach is based on wishful thinking, never facts or data.

Another thing - she's a sheep in many ways. New husband won't let her use the garbage disposal, so she only does when he's not home. Hates confrontation so she won't tell him to stuff it.

FRIEND

I don't know any S types who care about grammar.

I certainly don't - but I thought that was because of the P.

When you say she fusses over pillows and pictures, you have to understand the motive behind it before you can decide which dimension of MBTT is responsible for it. Is she a perfectionist or is she creating art? See what I mean?

Very good point. I think it's that she's a perfectionist. But she's not a perfectionist about very many things - mostly super-easy going, but about a few things she's very perfectionistic. We really work so well together, it's really amazing and we've hit it off in such a big way in the two years I've known her. I guess I'd like to know what type she is just because I'm curious - I usually don't connect with people this easily.

I've always assumed that my mother was ISFP - an Artisian, like me. But I'm rethinking that. I have a lot of old emotional issues with her and I guess I'm just trying to understand her.

 

[Randomnity]

I don't know any S types who care about grammar.

Oh I missed that. I care, though not enough to call in, and I can be fairly lax about grammar in an informal setting such as a forum or IM...I'm not sure it's type specific, though it seems to be mostly IxTPs who care, in my experience.

But I'm pretty sure there are other Ss who care about grammar, I can't be the only one!

 

[alicia91]

Thanks Randomnity. I've got to go out now, but I'm going to think about what you said.

Interesting, that the personality aspects that stand out to me are not really type specific. I think the issue for me is that whenever I know someone very well, I see all the contraditions just keep spinning my wheels. I don't have that issue much when typing with celebrities, characters in a book, etc.

 

[Delphyne]

I know. I should have clarified. She's just like me in this aspect. Both of us are 'quiet observers' when we go out. Sits on the sidelines of the action without participating much - except with close friends. And unless she's with outgoing people (like 2/3 husbands) barely interacts with others at all. Seems drained by a lot of interaction, and never initiates conversations in groups. Isn't into any kind of group sport, social clubs, etc.

There are two different definitions about E and I. Keirsey thinks Introverts are people who get drained by too much social contact, whereas Jung sees Introverts as those who are mostly concerned with the subject and Extraverts as those who are mostly concerned with the object. From your description your mother seemed to be very concerned with the outer world (can´t be alone, hosting family parties, likes to go to pubs), but I didn`t see anything which points towards preferrence of her inner world. Furthermore, dominant Si strives to preserve things and tends to be very responsible. Your mother doesn´t seem to be. ISJs are also good providers.

Another huge thing she is critical about is physical appearances and other shallow crap.

She´s concerned with the sensory world, but not in a preserving way, it seems more like she´s flowing with it. Her critic seems to be about what´s in vogue and stylish.
Going with Jung´s definition I think ESFP is very likely.

 

[alicia91]

Thanks everyone - I've got to mull this over.

There are two different definitions about E and I. Keirsey thinks Introverts are people who get drained by too much social contact, whereas Jung sees Introverts as those who are mostly concerned with the subject and Extraverts as those who are mostly concerned with the object

My info must be based on Keirsey. I've never heard of the latter description of E versus I.

I'm also going to look at the Interaction styles and Temperaments - forgot to do that.

 

[alicia91]

Sorry about resurecting such an old thread, but I was thinking about my mother again and still wondering about her type. After rereading this thread, I'm fairly sure that she's ESFP - but a very reserved one. I also think she's using (attempting to!) use her Ni function quite a bit because she has these 'feelings' about the future and claims tha she's somewhat psychic. Or perhaps it's just the Fi 'gut feelings' ?

I believe that she spent many years 'unhealthy' and mildly depressed which was probably why she was distant and not emotionally there for us while we were kids. She spent most of her free time sitting on her bed, often in PJs. But since her late 40s she's gotten quite a spark under her butt and is making up for lost time, I think.

 

[nozflubber]

if you have to think about it this much, then you're never going to type anyone correctly at all. If you're doing it right, her type will land in your lap when you're not focusing on it too much. But don't feel bad; you're not the only one that incorrectly tries to type by hyper-reflection over personalized "facts" about the person.

 

[alicia91]

I'm sure you are right but I really haven't been thinking about it for over a year - I just revisited it. I don't have much of a problem typing people who are not very close to me - co-workers, neighbors, and so forth. I have a difficult time with close family and myself. It's also made more difficult by the fact that I only see my family once or twice per year for about 20 years so I mostly go by what they TELL me and what I remember as a child.

Hyperreflecting on facts? I don't think so at this point. I ordered a bunch of materials from Linda Berens which I believe has given me a deeper understanding of MBTI but of course there is more to sort through! For example, do the cognitive processes line up, the Interaction Style, The Directing vs Informing, Responding versus Initiating, The Core Beliefs of each type, and of course The Temperament. I'm probably over thinking at this point - but I'm enjoying the process.

 

[Asterion]

1. ISTJ
2. ISTP

Just generally pulled from a couple bits of info.
1. ISXJ is a given, she's clearly Si dominant, and enneagram 6 (which can also appear NFP like). All of her F like behavior appears to result of the enneagram.

2. Correction of grammar is like super Ti (which can appear Judging), plus, the reason for not believing in god appears to be rather Ti. Her attention to detail would be Se.