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  1. #1
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    In MBTI terms -- most certainly narrowed down to NxFeTi. I solicited a few years back (and won ENFJ), and now I'm especially wondering what the new blood comes up with. The main beef I have with ENFJ is that Ti-last doesn't seem to make any goddamned sense, and it was in fact a thread on inferior Ti that made me question. However, pretty much every single ENTP quote on this page triggers my gag reflex. And I'm nowhere near special enough for INFJ. So, an impasse.

    I wrote a reply out to @Kheledon's reply in a Socionics thread, and it became way too goddamned long to not just stick in a "Type me." Hence this thread.

    For context (and giggles), here's the post he's referencing:
    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Virtually all of of the professional Socionics folks who've dug into me (e.g. interviews) have pegged me as LIE (ENTj). Really, I can see either γ-Ni type (ENTj, INTp) as feasible.

    I could also see ENTp, but I'd ultimately nix it because having to engage with its Super-id IMs (Si and Fe) make me want to stab myself. That is, screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics, and screw "listening to my body." It's my impatience that forces me to avoid that stuff whenever possible. (And if I could live without having to eat or work out or sleep, I totally would just toss those things in the garbage.)

    However, that typing messes with consistency and fries some folks' brains and makes them angry but tough titties to them. I'm always open to other perspectives, though, so long as they're not motivated by some hilarious outcry that carrots and mashed potatoes shouldn't touch each other on the plate.
    His reply and my counterreply:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    Hmm. I think I'll avoid delicacy, here, and just say that this post screams ENFj to me. Powerful Ni in ENFj's creative (2nd Function, part of ENFj's FeNi ego) function position is demonstrated by Ni's desire to limit options (i.e. "no, not that type," "no, not that type," "no, not that type,"), and I see you doing that while keeping an open mind (very mentally flexible--still open to other options, a typical feature of dialectical-algorithmic cognition (EIE) and not the causal-deterministic thinking that typifies LIE). Hyperbolic, performative language ("x fries people's brains," "x makes me want to stab myself," "hilarious outcry") comes naturally to ENFj (but ENTp can do that too). These words were also indicative: "screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics." ENFj feels too much as is. We often have to limit the amount of raw F that we just naturally absorb, and you express, quite dramatically (like an ENFj performer), that desire. I also hate drama in my life, and that's typical of an ENFj because we value, more than anything else, stable interpersonal relationships. I share your aversion to interpersonal drama, as one would expect from an ENFj.

    What really tipped me off though was this: "I could live without having to eat or work out or sleep, I totally would just toss those things in the garbage." Same here. Juvenile Si. I consider both sleep and eating to be a waste of time, and I wouldn't do them unless I had to. That's strong N (time sense) combined with an impending sense that there's never enough time. Both Gamma and Beta experience this feeling (as decisive types), but Gamma (LIE, ENTj) should be more focused on problem-solution thinking, whereas I see "emoting" and evaluation in this post. You show strong, but subconscious, Fi values (i.e. "It's silly to be obsessed with keeping food separate on your plate."), but they're expressed through some powerful and dramatic Fe OUTPUT.
    I strongly agree on exaggeration and hyperbole and dramatic output.

    I swear to Christ that, when I type things like "screw the emotional atmosphere, screw dramatics, screw aesthetics," I'm not also sitting at my desk all teary-eyed throwing vases and glasses everywhere. Honestly, my exaggeration is almost never a product of anger or other strong emotions.

    When exaggeration isn't fueled by strong emotion [size](drama! dramatics! oh how doth thouest hurt me. yea this river shalt be my tomb forevermore if you don't pick up the phone next time I call)[/size], it may very well be fueled by imagination. A world where everything is all taken totally ad absurdum is, of course, absurdly amusing -- and the material universe triggers a short excursion from time to time. I also imagine that an Ni type can get pretty impatient. If, in their mind, they 'know' what the outcome of a situation will be, they may just want that outcome to happen already so that they can just move on to the next thing. Perhaps almost as if they feel they're outpacing the present and the world has to play catch-up.

    I'm on board with that. I also understand that an Ni-er will choose an option but continue to "doubt" (i.e. test) that option. Touche, Socionics.

    But I have trouble with tying some of these traits to certain IMs. For instance, it seems that fixating upon developing stable interpersonal relationships would, stereotypically, land in Fi territory -- someone who values Fi would fixate upon those (and may look for "the one" to come and save them..?). Additionally, someone with a vulnerable Fi could very well be overloaded by feels and dramatics, too; and arguably much more quickly than an Fe-ego, who is allegedly capable of controlling the overall emotional atmosphere and so by nature should be able to handle it.

    (And I can't help but notice that you like bold as much as I like italics for emphasizing -- or exaggerating! -- words or phrases that would carry an inflection when you're actually speaking.)


    However, I do want to clarify something:
    Your signature also feels very ENFj to me. It starts with an expressed Fi value ("Forgive my typos."), and that's indicative of a person who will beat himself (or herself) up mercilessly for violating one's own Fi value system, and an ENFj hates to do that. It's followed by an Fe attempt to affect the "mood" of others ("Lol.") Then there's a line that, if meant in jest, is an obvious Fe attempt to affect mood. Either that, or it's like the credentials listed below it (aristocratic, prestige-driven, Beta values) that Alphas and Gammas typically do not share. In fact, they often perceive such behavior as unnecessary (since, being democratic, they see all of us as equal) or obnoxious (show-off behavior) that they poorly tolerate. Thus, Alpha (ENTp, ILE) and Gamma (ENTj, LIE) seem unlikely for you. [...] Your final signature quote, furthermore, is gorgeous and idealistic--highly emotive, and very typical of an ENFj. You even self-attribute it,
    tbh I didn't invent the iPhone 7 and I'm neither a Lieutenant or a canonized saint.

    Really, the signature is a knock on the sort of pretentious attitude that would lead someone to hold such a signature in earnest. A total exaggeration. (If I recall correctly, Michael Scott from The Office is a good example of that attitude? Maybe?)

    So the collection of words in the signature aren't me directly describing myself. But I'm sure they're indirectly descriptive. For one, there's the adage "Don't bullshit a bullshitter"; I'm not exactly a stranger to these sorts of tactics. For two, well -- Hyperbolic? Check. Dramatic expression of a strong, subconscious value? Yeah.

    Here's the skinny.

    Besides which, most of your writing in this post is emotive, emotionally-charged, and evaluative (F) rather than problem-solution oriented (T).
    There's this, though.
    I note that the words above your avatar, "NEW! Now with more tert," also hint toward an ENFj typing as ENFj is known for regularly re-inventing or reincarnating itself in some way.
    The whole "NEW! Now --" is another branding joke, but perhaps also indirectly telling. Regardless, I have been told that I do go through "reincarnations." Guilty.

    And although I don't care about carrots touching peas -- that is, keeping one's own MBTI and Socionics types aligned logically so that everything just fits -- I should mention that ENFJ is one of the MBTI types that others (and I) have seen in myself. That can be (very reluctantly) taken as strengthening the case for Socionics' ENFj. (I may have to start a "type me" thing.)

    You also certainly had me at "dialectical-algorithmic." As evidenced, I'm clearly suggestible while at the same time wanting some definition; and I had no idea that there was a term for that. I liken it to throwing a lot of junk into the hallway closet and pushing like hell to try to close the door.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Well, I don't want to die quite yet, so I am glad I read this post.

    OK, so, an insincere Gamma, Jack London type entrepreneur! LIE, ENTj

    We EIEs can be so gullible. We're naturally sincere, and we have a hard time catching it when others are not. Hope you enjoyed the game.

    btw, your cognitive style should be Vortical-Synergetic. Oh, and I just adore the fact that LIE is the acronym for this sociotype. It's perfect.

    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.
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  3. #3
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    @jscrothers FWIW I am an ENFJ that generally doesn't display the vibes of one, and I generally don't look that similar to most ENFJ's that I meet except for the fact that I am a super extroverted animated chatterbox with a flair for theatrics (which is hardly a type indicator). There's plenty of ENFJ things that make me go .

    As such, it's perfectly reasonable that you could be an ENTP. I have always seen you as an ENxx at minimum, and lean more towards a more organized Ne-dom. An atypical one, but it makes the most sense. I always had a difficult time seeing ENFJ for you.

    Socionics is something different, and that you seem a lot more solid on. As you well know those two theories do not always align. They certainly don't in me as I am SLE. Which sort of explains the oddities associated with being ENFJ. Being a different sociotype (in particular in a different quadrant) could very well explain some of the discongruency.

    You're clearly a 3w4 though, I don't think anyone would dare question that .
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  4. #4
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I don't know but this:
    When exaggeration isn't fueled by strong emotion [size](drama! dramatics! oh how doth thouest hurt me. yea this river shalt be my tomb forevermore if you don't pick up the phone next time I call)[/size].
    was my favorite part.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  5. #5
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    do i need to ? its so much to read
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]
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  6. #6
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    I have to laugh that people take away SO much from signatures. And for the record, you always strike me as ENTP.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #7
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    veryvery very young entp and american entp ^^
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I don't know but this:
    was my favorite part.
    I liked it too. Socionics theorists like to use archtypes to convey the "feeling" of a given Sociotype. EIE is Hamlet. "To be or not to be. That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler ... etc." EIE is prone to drama and hyperbole ("Oh, woe is me!") and will sacrifice itself for its values (as did Hamlet).
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.
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  9. #9
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Alpha.

    It's pretty obvious to me your listed "credentials" are not beta-driven but rather were listed in a playful manner of thumbing your nose at the sorts of people who would place a greater emphasis on one's rank than they would on one's ideas, words, actions, et al.

    ENTp, methinks

  10. #10
    All Natural! All Good!
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    Can you clarify a bit on "screw the emotional atmosphere"? How do you see emotional atmosphere and what do you mean by screw it? Are you expressing that you simply don't care about sharing an emotional atmosphere with others around you?

    You do come off rather Te/Ni to me. Remember, LIE has Fe role, which means it's a 2D and unvalued element. So it's one you can consciously use when desired, and you'll do a decent job of it (as well as a Fe HA type) - it just won't be one that you value.

    Yeah, I do see traces of Fi from you as well, but it's far more consistent with Fi DS than Fi PoLR. (Fi PoLR types won't even show the traces. LOL.)

    I know we aren't in the Socionics sub-forum, but you linked to this in a Soc thread so here I am.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.
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