HPD or unhealthy Fi? Also INFP or ENFP?

[Galaxy Gazer]

DISCLAIMER: I am aware that a person can't be diagnosed with a personality disorder over the internet. I just want to see if my observations make any sense.

Okay, first, here's some background information. I have this xNFP friend. She's 17 and a senior in high school. She has a lot of issues, including depression, and lately I've been noticing some unusual behavioral patterns that seem to coincide with the symptoms of histrionic personality disorder. Some of these behaviors are:

-She has a tendency to tease and mock her friends in person but compliment them over the internet and only say nice things about them to other people. For example, she often points out that I suck at makeup, hair, and nails (especially when I acknowledge it first) but she leaves a great number of comments online saying that I'm pretty, that she's jealous of me, etc.

-Upon receiving a compliment, she typically replies with something along the lines of "I know." She means it in a joking way, but I thought it was worth noting that if praise means a lot to her, as it typically does in people with HPD, she doesn't show it.

-She is extremely sensitive. If a person makes a negative comment toward her, even if it is meant as friendly teasing, she takes it personally and becomes sullen and/or withdrawn. As you can probably imagine, this makes for some very awkward situations. This most often happens online.

-She often makes statements such as "everyone hates me" and "I'm so ugly that no guy would want to date me," despite having an extremely active social life and several past relationships. She is very uncensored when she is in these self-deprecating moods, and will even reveal these insecurities to complete strangers.

-She sometimes speaks very dramatically for the purpose of entertainment. Sometimes while driving around with her, she will jokingly yell or scream if something unfortunate or exciting happens.

-She tends to reject advice and possible solutions from others. One time she said she felt shitty, so to lighten the mood, I sent her a Buzzfeed quiz titled "what should you do to feel less shitty?" The results included taking a shower, driving around, being in nature, talking with a friend, etc. Her immediate reaction was that none of the solutions would work.

-She is very upbeat and energetic in person, despite how sullen she can be while talking over the internet. She could talk for hours about pretty much anything and is very light hearted and fun.

Like I said, I'm not expecting anyone to say for sure whether she has histrionic personality disorder or anything else. I'd just like to get a better idea of how to understand and relate to her. If anyone has an idea as to whether she is INFP or ENFP, and her enneatype, that would be helpful as well.

 

[prplchknz]

she's 17 what you described describes a lot of 17 year old girls if she's doing this at 27 then i'd be concerned. I honestly don't think she's hpd, just maybe on the more dramatic side. her type can't tell from any of this.

 

[Frosty]

Yeah this doesn't sound like someone with a personality disorder to me- this sounds like a depressed teenage girl who feels socially isolated/lonely.

I would suggest just- listening. You don't have to agree with everything/anything that she says-but don't dismiss her when she says it. You don't have to dig anything out of her or fix her or anything like that- just be her friend. Be as you would be normally but, perhaps just try to be-show-some sort of attentiveness when she says things like that. It would perhaps help, and might mean more to her than you might think.

If possible-and if applicable(if she seems like she really needs it-and or hints/asks about/around it) maybe suggest she seek out a professional for support. But I am not sure the extent of her... Well. Its why I said 'if applicable'. Good luck.

And she could really be any type imo... This is fairly general, and it is even harder to tell type if she IS unhealthy.

 

[cascadeco]

Agree with other posters. Also, everything you wrote has nothing to do with Fi.

 

[Qlip]

She's a witch. Burn her!

 

[Galaxy Gazer]

Okay, I think the consensus is "teenage girl with teenage girl problems." I invited her to hang out next week and she perked up a little. I'd still like to type her but it's probably going to be difficult (she got INFP on an unofficial test btw).

 

[Masokissed]

Sounds E.

 

[Thalassa]

I actually was diagnosed with HPD in my 20s and had a history of adult entertainment work and bisexual promiscuity, by SOME PEOPLES STANDARDS (I'm a very nice girl)...I honestly felt my diagnosis was biased because of my sexual past , but I think hypersexuality, or exhibitionism, is one of the symptoms.

People with HPD can actually be very kind and overly loving, with poor boundaries towards people they're attracted to or "no filter" and mildly inappropriate sexual behavior...I honestly think Lana del Rey has HPD which is why I identify with her excessive emotionality.

People with HPD are HIGH EMPATHY, so they're more likely to be the psycho overly attached girlfriend or overly affectionate Barbie woman than mean or backstabbing . I'm definitely mean but it's typically overt and moody rather than back stabbing or fake , which is something I associate with Narcissistic tendencies, or LOW EMPATHY.

All cluster Bs seek external validation, and are co-dependent in some facet of their relationships, but Borderline and Histrionics are more high empathy, ASPD and NPD low empathy - it's confusing polar empathy opposites are grouped together, but they all seek novelty, stimulation, and external validation, are likely the result of uneven or confusing parenting in terms of acceptance and rejection and for which reasons, and all just pathologicallly want you to love them or hate them , just please don't ignore them.

My symptoms used to be a lot worse, I had much more overt attention seeking, exhibitionist, or popularity seeking behaviors than I do now, even compared to five years ago .

But I'll likely always be highly emotional, dramatic and defined by my sexuality in part - I have done HUGE things though, like going 80 percent of the time no make-up, meditation, all that stuff to completely separate from the need for external validation.

People with HPD are often likable and charismatic, like people with mild Bipolar disorder...they are often eccentric though and will clearly annoy or creep out a certain type of person. I remember in high school people said that I "exaggerated" and at that time I wasn't aware of it at all, I genuinely felt that way, I think all people with HPD do, which is one of the reasons I take issue with the "shallow effect" symptom. It's not shallow. I actually feel that way. I think Narcissistic Personlaity Disorder though has shallow effect due to low empathy.

 

[Thalassa]

Sounds E.

Yeah I'm thinking ENFP over INFP.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Crud. I almost have this too.

I think if I had not become such a strong introvert, I might have been this.

It's a lot like borderline, isn't it?
[MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] What does this mean? has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail and displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions

I guess I have a few of these, but it's not enough to qualify as a diagnosis.

 

[Thalassa]

Crud. I almost have this too.

I think if I had not become such a strong introvert, I might have been this.

It's a lot like borderline, isn't it?
[MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] What does this mean? has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail and displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions

I guess I have a few of these, but it's not enough to qualify as a diagnosis.

Well I think recently the DSM considered grouping HPD or NPD with Borderline , like as a branch of Borderline , from what I understand ....but originally I thought they were just accepting Narcissism, and Histrionics, as male and female aspects of normal American culture ...which unsettled me, not because of HPD but because of the low empathy of NPD, that absolutely terrified me. I actually need to look at the most recent DSM.

A style of speech that is excessively impressionistic, and lacking in detail, is something that has interestingly, come to be associated with gay men, or Southern women...like telling people they're FABULOUS, AWESOME, OH HONEY, LOOK SON....a female fictional example is Karen from Will and Grace...like that's great, very nice, seriously?...it's babying or sweetying someone ...tucking people in with emotional words that are full of sugar and rape.

I have never been able to agree with rapidly shifting shallow emotions. My emotions aren't shallow , I really feel that way, but some people believe that people who cry, scream, or laugh easily are fake or shallow.

 

[prplchknz]

Well I think recently the DSM considered grouping HPD or NPD with Borderline , like as a branch of Borderline , from what I understand ....but originally I thought they were just accepting Narcissism, and Histrionics, as male and female aspects of normal American culture ...which unsettled me, not because of HPD but because of the low empathy of NPD, that absolutely terrified me. I actually need to look at the most recent DSM.

A style of speech that is excessively impressionistic, and lacking in detail, is something that has interestingly, come to be associated with gay men, or Southern women...like telling people they're FABULOUS, AWESOME, OH HONEY, LOOK SON....a female fictional example is Karen from Will and Grace...like that's great, very nice, seriously?...it's babying or sweetying someone ...tucking people in with emotional words that are full of sugar and rape.

I have never been able to agree with rapidly shifting shallow emotions. My emotions aren't shallow , I really feel that way, but some people believe that people who cry, scream, or laugh easily are fake or shallow.

I don;t see that as fake, what i see as fake is someone pretending to like you when they don't to get something from you. Of course I cry really easily and yes it's genuine. I actually heard the argument for bpd that they feel way more deeply than the general population, I dunno how true that is, but I believe it. I've not heard anything about that having to do with HPD I just heard they're drama queens.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Well I think recently the DSM considered grouping HPD or NPD with Borderline , like as a branch of Borderline , from what I understand ....but originally I thought they were just accepting Narcissism, and Histrionics, as male and female aspects of normal American culture ...which unsettled me, not because of HPD but because of the low empathy of NPD, that absolutely terrified me. I actually need to look at the most recent DSM.

A style of speech that is excessively impressionistic, and lacking in detail, is something that has interestingly, come to be associated with gay men, or Southern women...like telling people they're FABULOUS, AWESOME, OH HONEY, LOOK SON....a female fictional example is Karen from Will and Grace...like that's great, very nice, seriously?...it's babying or sweetying someone ...tucking people in with emotional words that are full of sugar and rape.

I have never been able to agree with rapidly shifting shallow emotions. My emotions aren't shallow , I really feel that way, but some people believe that people who cry, scream, or laugh easily are fake or shallow.

You are a wealth of knowledge!

Yes, the gay man talk!!! I always knew it had to be something. Now I realize it is just a way they have learned to get attention. (my theory being gay men have lacked their fathers attention, making them subconsciously seek that from men, no offense to anyone who feels gay, just my own observation).

Oh. So maybe the 'shallow emotions' is more an objective impression on the part of an observer versus a subjective feeling on the part of a sufferer? I am kind-of thinking I know what this is. I know a girl (frenemy) who cries at the drop of a hat anytime a situation gets charged with conflict, even minor conflict. Then she attacks me with tears streaming down her face as the perpetrator of her bad feelings. She is also pretty theatrical and trendy, will draw you in like you are her best friend, use you, then stab you in the back and walk away never acting like she did anything wrong. Indeed, she will twist it to make it seem like she is the victim. What does this sound like?

Also, what are narcissistic men like? Just curious.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Well I think recently the DSM considered grouping HPD or NPD with Borderline , like as a branch of Borderline , from what I understand ....but originally I thought they were just accepting Narcissism, and Histrionics, as male and female aspects of normal American culture ...which unsettled me, not because of HPD but because of the low empathy of NPD, that absolutely terrified me. I actually need to look at the most recent DSM.

A style of speech that is excessively impressionistic, and lacking in detail, is something that has interestingly, come to be associated with gay men, or Southern women...like telling people they're FABULOUS, AWESOME, OH HONEY, LOOK SON....a female fictional example is Karen from Will and Grace...like that's great, very nice, seriously?...it's babying or sweetying someone ...tucking people in with emotional words that are full of sugar and rape.

I have never been able to agree with rapidly shifting shallow emotions. My emotions aren't shallow , I really feel that way, but some people believe that people who cry, scream, or laugh easily are fake or shallow.

I don't see HPD emotions as fake. I think they are very real but because they are felt so strongly, there is no balance.

Everything comes at you. ("You" being the other person dealing with a HPD person) and DEMANDS something be done about it. It actually goes past validation to an unhealthy focus on these 'screaming' emotions.

Because not every feeling deserves that response (and healthy people recognize this) in order to get it, HPD exaggerate tremendously.

Sort of the emotional ends justifying the means.

My father had a diagnosis of HPD, NPD and BPD.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't see HPD emotions as fake. I think they are very real but because they are felt so strongly, there is no balance.

Everything comes at you. ("You" being the other person dealing with a HPD person) and DEMANDS something be done about it. It actually goes past validation to an unhealthy focus on these 'screaming' emotions.

Because not every feeling deserves that response (and healthy people recognize this) in order to get it, HPD exaggerate tremendously.

Sort of the emotional ends justifying the means.

My father had a diagnosis of HPD, NPD and BPD.

Yeah that makes sense. I still do it sometimes now, but it's typically due to certain triggers. When I was first diagnosed it was terrible, I'm sure especially for other people around me. Having a relationship with my ex who was BPD and somewhat abusive only exacerbated it.

I'm not disputing what you say about your father, but how could he have high and low empathy at the same time? NPD is distinctive in its low empathy, they often see themselves as "rational" and they are cold people, though they can "love" partners or children for what they are to THEM (but not for themselves). Were these separate doctors diagnosing him, or did he simply have "narcissistic features"?

 

[Thalassa]

You are a wealth of knowledge!

Yes, the gay man talk!!! I always knew it had to be something. Now I realize it is just a way they have learned to get attention. (my theory being gay men have lacked their fathers attention, making them subconsciously seek that from men, no offense to anyone who feels gay, just my own observation).

Oh. So maybe the 'shallow emotions' is more an objective impression on the part of an observer versus a subjective feeling on the part of a sufferer? I am kind-of thinking I know what this is. I know a girl (frenemy) who cries at the drop of a hat anytime a situation gets charged with conflict, even minor conflict. Then she attacks me with tears streaming down her face as the perpetrator of her bad feelings. She is also pretty theatrical and trendy, will draw you in like you are her best friend, use you, then stab you in the back and walk away never acting like she did anything wrong. Indeed, she will twist it to make it seem like she is the victim. What does this sound like?

Also, what are narcissistic men like? Just curious.

I have a friend who cries at anything who isn't a back stabber, she's one of the nicest caring giving people I know, but when I was around her back in the day EVERYTHING made her cry, and her mother had a history of mental illness.

I do think that the shallow emotions is an assessment on the part of the observer, especially very emotionally controlled people will not understand the level of sensitivity. I honestly think the world would be a very boring place without neurotic or disordered people, as they (we) give the world a lot of its art, music, etc...what would Big Bang Theory be without Sheldon? How would Clue the Movie be so hilarious if every single character wasn't a neurotic of some sort? Wuthering Heights never would have been written, and emo wouldn't exist.

I'm thinking your acquaintance you describe might have BPD. It's the worship devaluation that would cause the back stabbing. Love you/hate you. I can't stand my bf's mother and we used to be super close and friendly, but I think she also has narcissistic tendencies. ...she has actually made up entirely fictional stories about me to slander me to mutual acquaintances, and while she's in her 50s, she sees no problem disturbing everyone else in the house to run around screaming at her husband. She seems to have a "script" in her head that she thinks her children should follow, and while she loves them, I don't think she knows who they really are.

Narcissistic men often want "trophy" partners...and this can eventually lead to emotional abuse about weight, appearance, etc, as well as gaslighting, ignoring your needs, stuff like that. It's all about them, you are an extension of them or reflect on them, and if you are no longer useful you are simply dead to them.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I have a friend who cries at anything who isn't a back stabber, she's one of the nicest caring giving people I know, but when I was around her back in the day EVERYTHING made her cry, and her mother had a history of mental illness.

I do think that the shallow emotions is an assessment on the part of the observer, especially very emotionally controlled people will not understand the level of sensitivity. I honestly think the world would be a very boring place without neurotic or disordered people, as they (we) give the world a lot of its art, music, etc...what would Big Bang Theory be without Sheldon? How would Clue the Movie be so hilarious if every single character wasn't a neurotic of some sort? Wuthering Heights never would have been written, and emo wouldn't exist.

I'm thinking your acquaintance you describe might have BPD. It's the worship devaluation that would cause the back stabbing. Love you/hate you. I can't stand my bf's mother and we used to be super close and friendly, but I think she also has narcissistic tendencies. ...she has actually made up entirely fictional stories about me to slander me to mutual acquaintances, and while she's in her 50s, she sees no problem disturbing everyone else in the house to run around screaming at her husband. She seems to have a "script" in her head that she thinks her children should follow, and while she loves them, I don't think she knows who they really are.

Okay. Yes, she may have bpd and I know her mother has bpd. Anyway, I don't really even want to spend time thinking about her.

I agree and have been thinking that God Himself actually has a ton of names He goes by. It is not just the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is also different depending upon what name He is going by, His names mean different things. So, if man is made in the image of God, then it fits that man will have numerous names and faces and facets too.

Narcissistic men often want "trophy" partners...and this can eventually lead to emotional abuse about weight, appearance, etc, as well as gaslighting, ignoring your needs, stuff like that. It's all about them, you are an extension of them or reflect on them, and if you are no longer useful you are simply dead to them.

I see. Yes. There seems to be some of that on this forum, but I don't see anyone fessing up about it.

 

[Thalassa]

Okay. Yes, she may have bpd and I know her mother has bpd. Anyway, I don't really even want to spend time thinking about her.

I agree and have been thinking that God Himself actually has a ton of names He goes by. It is not just the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is also different depending upon what name He is going by, His names mean different things. So, if man is made in the image of God, then it fits that man will have numerous names and faces and facets too.



I see. Yes. There seems to be some of that on this forum, but I don't see anyone fessing up about it.

Oh yesssssss.....I agree with you about the last part. I think it's because the Internet is a good place for NPD to get external validation without having to care or connect in any way, and I think they often - though not always - type themselves as NTs, especially INTJ, giving NTs a bad name in general. But being a bastard who dehumanizes women isn't something inherent to the INTJ type...in fact David Keirsey described INTJ man as likely to feel great relief upon meeting an attractive NF woman who understands or tries to understand him, and is glad to be married or partnered so he does not have to deal with the social stress of dating.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Yeah that makes sense. I still do it sometimes now, but it's typically due to certain triggers. When I was first diagnosed it was terrible, I'm sure especially for other people around me. Having a relationship with my ex who was BPD and somewhat abusive only exacerbated it.

I'm not disputing what you say about your father, but how could he have high and low empathy at the same time? NPD is distinctive in its low empathy, they often see themselves as "rational" and they are cold people, though they can "love" partners or children for what they are to THEM (but not for themselves). Were these separate doctors diagnosing him, or did he simply have "narcissistic features"?

Sorry. His actual diagnosis was "borderline personality disorder with histrionic, anti-social and narcissistic tendencies".

I should have clarified that as they are big differences.

My father lacked the ability to empathize. It wasn't that he had low empathy. The histrionic part kept him imprisoned in his own emotions, while the narcissistic element kept feeding into that.

His case was one where his diagnosis was stacked against him and while BPD, HPD patients can work towards change with help and desire to change, the addition of narcissism and anti-social elements...I don't believe those people can be changed.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Sorry. His actual diagnosis was "borderline personality disorder with histrionic, anti-social and narcissistic tendencies".

I should have clarified that as they are big differences.

My father lacked the ability to empathize. It wasn't that he had low empathy. The histrionic part kept him imprisoned in his own emotions, while the narcissistic element kept feeding into that. He was physically very abusive and cruel.

His case was one where his diagnosis was stacked against him and while BPD, HPD patients can work towards change with help and desire to change, the addition of narcissism and anti-social elements...I don't believe those people can be changed.

I believe everyone can change. I really do. Antisocial is tough stuff, but not as hard as its stigma would imply. It's all about trust and praying and wanting to be healed.

Unfortunately most don't want to be. Like Jesus said, "the road to destruction is wide and there are many who go in by it, but narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it."