Help me determine S/N for an EXTP

[Economica]

Okay, so I am trying to type this guy. He's 29 years old and in the process of acquiring a Ph.D. in economics. We've been Facebooking and here are two of his messages, courtesy of Google Translate with some editing and commenting [] by me:

Do not worry, I will give a briefing, when I know something...

Then you can of course test whether [term for the nationality of our advisor] (or [alternative spelling of that nationality] if you like, if you like modern spelling) also briefs you! I see him not as extraordinarily little service-minded - probably more busy and a little preoccupied, as I think professors are supposed to be...

It is fortunate that the cellar-effect will be defeated by the coffee-supply, from which [the coffee place close to our old offices] certainly could learn something! How goes with the thesis - how long will you be trapped in the basement? When you start a Ph.D. you can probably get an office on the second floor... :-D

P.S.: You do not give freebies, huh? :-D This is something-for-something policy which puts pressure on me this Sunday with a hangover... [<-- He asked me a personal question about an event he had seen I was attending and I replied that I'd satisfy his curiosity if he would satisfy mine.]

Your bid was relatively close [I guessed he was an ENTP] - my type was ESTP according to one of the tests (I managed just to make the one, but it could be that the other would give a different bid). What say you to it - I must be able to expect a comment as a reward for my hard work?

Hehe, perfectionism and 8 missing points - it sounds familiar. Something with an essay in [course we took together], perhaps ...? ;-) [<-- I failed to hand in an essay for a course we took together two years ago due to perfectionism. And apparently I haven't learned from that experience, since the same thing has happened with the thesis I'm now writing. ]

We talked about [student aides] today (in connection with that I have used a lot for [my graduate work]) and [our advisor] did say something about that you should be interpreter [<-- I'll be doing some translation work later this year on a project that he's also attached to.]

I only know a little of the official description of the [satirical term for the well-educated, self-satisfied and politically correct segment of society that I said I figure I belong to except for my politics]. My personal interpretation of the concept is not particularly attractive (it is people who are fans of [local soccer club] and go to [their stadium], if and only if it is good weather and [the soccer club] is to win the championship) so it is not a term I prefer thinking of in connection with the people I actually like... :-D

(and now has the sharp, analytical student probably figured out the passion - or vice if you like - that I suffer from...)

Are you calling me a geek ???!!? :-D

I find it hard to recognize me as one who "seeks thrilling sensory experiences" - perhaps because I am not quite aware of what is meant (sorry...) However, I do feel relatively application-oriented but on the other hand, I have nothing at all against discussions! On the other hand, I do not see myself as a geek (denial is the first sign...)!

I recall that there were some questions à la "When you make a decision, you A) gather information to clarify the issue B) trust that your unique gut instinct gives you the right answer.

In these questions I have probably answered A, but whether it is because that I have learned through education and work, or whether it is because that I AM such, I could not say (although it may be what you want me to do ;-)). Did I answer A because I am [an economist] - or am I [an economist] because I personally prefer A? The chicken or the egg? The questions are many - few are the answers...

Perhaps I should take the second test and see if it gives the same answer (but why should it not? And if it should, why did you send both? ). Until then, feel free to ask more clarifying questions, so you can satisfy your curiosity - although [your thesis buddy] has said that you should stop trying to analyze all the people you meet... ;-)

As for compensation, I have a few hundred questionnaires to be entered... c, ") [<-- Anyone know what that smiley is supposed to signify? ]

Incidentally, it's obviously lost in translation, but his grammar and his spelling are perfect.

 

[Mort Belfry]

The answer is fries.

 

[substitute]

From what I can gather, it's saying N to me. But then, the only ESTP's I've ever known have not been great advertisements for type equality... they've all been no-brain peasants that walk round with shaved heads and bare chests in gangs with lager cans in their hands to football matches or else middle aged con men with several failed marriages...

I did know one that was more intelligent and honourable, but I think his wife trained him

The fact that I allow in my mind for these being not typical or that they're not all like that is me trying really hard not to be typist! But anyway your chap here seems more N than S to me.

 

[mippus]

I'd ENTP him.
Good spelling and grammar don't tell me much in this: SJ's may be great, SP's pragmatic (forgive me this euphemism). Even the ever absent minded INTP can be obsessed with precise language...
The conversationstyle seems ENTP to me (no argumentation, even if it were correct they would challenge it, just for the sake of it)

 

[Economica]

Thanks, substitute and mippus.

I'm still thinking ENTP too, but I didn't want to dismiss the ESTP test result out of hand. Especially since I'm going about the soccer obsession...

Oh, and can anyone tell me what the closing smiley is supposed to signify?

 

[Cimarron]

questionnaires to be entered... c, "

If it's a smiley, I guess it's a kind of "twitchy face". The comma is a nose. The pair of quotation marks on our right side is an eye squinted shut. The letter "c" on our left side is an eye bulging out in amazement. Something like that?

 

[Oberon]

Oh, and can anyone tell me what the closing smiley is supposed to signify?

It signifies "I have spoken an unpleasant truth to you; please don't be angry."

Your boy is a mature, well-balanced ENTP, in my inexpert judgment. Maturity and balance makes individuals harder to pin down.

 

[alicia91]

I don't think there's enough here to decide S or N. The entire conversation seems quite Ti to me, but there really isn't much else that stands out. Do you know the person well enough to look at the Interaction Styles - I often find that helpful when trying to decide between close types?

Take a look here at the In-Charge Promotor-Executor (ESTP) versus Get-Things-Going Explorer-Inventor (ENTP).

Interaction Styles

 

[Economica]

If it's a smiley, I guess it's a kind of "twitchy face". The comma is a nose. The pair of quotation marks on our right side is an eye squinted shut. The letter "c" on our left side is an eye bulging out in amazement. Something like that?

Cimarron, thanks for trying to make it make sense.

It signifies "I have spoken an unpleasant truth to you; please don't be angry."

I don't get it.

Your boy is a mature, well-balanced ENTP, in my inexpert judgment. Maturity and balance makes individuals harder to pin down.

He comes across as pretty ENTP to me, actually (except for the soccer thing and except that I haven't yet spotted the misanthropic/disillusioned streak that I'm used to finding in ENTPs). I'm thinking his S test result could be due to his having compared himself to the ivory tower INTs he's surrounded by (such as our wildly impractical and delusional INTJ professor who suffers from rampant CC ). Thanks for your input, Oberon.

I don't think there's enough here to decide S or N. The entire conversation seems quite Ti to me, but there really isn't much else that stands out. Do you know the person well enough to look at the Interaction Styles - I often find that helpful when trying to decide between close types?

I don't know him well enough to look at interaction styles, no, but then, interaction styles don't make too much sense to me for the people I do know well, so...

Thanks for your two cents, alicia91. As I said above, I'm wary of dismissing the ESTP test result out of hand, especially since I don't know any highly intelligent ESTPs well enough to compare their vibe with the ENTP one.

 

[Cimarron]

It signifies "I have spoken an unpleasant truth to you; please don't be angry."

Oh, so that's the implication here. He's telling you something that you probably don't want to hear, but it's important for you to hear it. Example: I know you told me not to touch your watch, but... (c, ") I did and now it's broken.

Keep going on with the main discussion, too. Don't mind me.

 

[Economica]

Oh, so that's the implication here. He's telling you something that you probably don't want to hear, but it's important for you to hear it. Example: I know you told me not to touch your watch, but... (c, ") I did and now it's broken.

I still don't see it. But I suppose I can always ask him.

 

[Jack Flak]

ENTP. <---That's a period.

 

[Randomnity]

I don't see anything that leads me to lean either way, really. I don't know any ESTPs though, to be fair. You could get him to read a good description for both types and see which one he prefers? It's been my experience that people will tend to test as more "N" than they actually are, but of course there are always exceptions.

 

[proteanmix]

For people that think he's an ENTP what leads you to that conclusion?

That he said he was a perfectionist or his criticism of the soccer people? He seemed to disdain people weren't there for pure love of the game. Is he saying that he doesn't want to connect those thoughts to people he likes? I think when SPs don't identify with the physicality of Se they tend to not believe they're SPs. He tested ESTP; you think ENTP, he's definitely ExTP. So all you have to do is figure out if he uses Se or Ne.

• Ask him to describe a picture or painting and see how he describes it. See if the way he describes is more Se (color, scene, texture, sound) or Ne (sees one or two things and then starts floating off into space).
• How does he order food in a restaurant and when he's trying something new, what makes him decide on one dish over another. Listen to how he describes his process and what he focuses on.
• STs are more practical and realistic than NTs. If he's rattling off a bunch of ideas how does he make his final decision? Is it based on practicality of the present situation or what may be or could happen?
• When he sizes up a situation? Does he zone in on the facts or the possibilities? How quickly does he react and what does he react to?

Also you can look for other functions, but since ETPs have the same guts (Ti/Fe), you'd basically have to look for either Si or Ni. Using the food example, I'd think an ENTP would/would not try something new based on a vague sense they'd had a similar food before and (dis)liked it (Si). I'm not sure how Ni would figure into the picture of an ESTP...maybe them not having it before and knowing with out a doubt they would/wouldn't like it without ever having tasting anything like it before? That prior experience may not be as necessary for an ESTP than an ENTP. I'm not sure.

My impression of ESTPs is that they're sharp and don't miss a beat and very much aware of the most minute body language and interpret quickly and accurately. I'd think ENTPs would be more likely to those kinds of things. I'm not sure whether or not he's ENTP or ESTP and I don't see anything that strongly points in either direction.

Here's something interesting I found about SPs:

In our work, we have found that a vast number of_ S_Ps select "N" responses rather than the "S" responses on the MBTI® , Their behavior and reports have been taken as typical of those with a preference for N. Because of not using the added information in the temperament model or not paying close attention to Jung's definitions and Myers descriptions, the observations of people with _S_P preferences have filtered back into the mainstream definitions of N. When we go back to Jung's descriptions, we find these descriptions have veered off course from the original meaning.

Sources of Confusion
Several descriptors used for iNtuiting misled these individuals to self-report on the MBTI or self-select a preference for "N."

Big Picture - Many Artisans-SPs are interested in the big picture. They say they want all the detail, the whole story. One ESFP selected "spire" over "foundation," saying he saw himself on top of the spire seeing the whole picture.

Pattern - Likewise, most of these Artisans-SPs also indicate they look for patterns. Looking for patterns is different than perceiving the pattern first. The differentiating point is the starting place, not the ending place.

Extraverted Sensing and extraverted iNtuiting are holistic, analogic perceptual modes. In extraverted Sensing, the individual elements, like the trees in the forest, are seen in rich detail, all at once. Thus concrete patterns are quite likely to be perceived along with the discrete sensory information. This pattern is different from the abstract extraverted iNtuiting perception of the relationships and connections of the trees to the rest of the environment. Both pattern and big picture can be on a continuum from concrete to abstract.

Possibilities - These Artisans-SPs frequently respond to "possibilities" as an accurate descriptor. When we probed deeper, they described seeking opportunities for action, usually what to do next and what will work to solve a problem. They like brainstorming and coming up with variations on a theme, until the process goes on and on and on and gets too far away from reality. Those who prefer extraverted iNtuiting are increasingly excited by the ideas sparked in the process regardless of how far abstracted from reality. Both extraverted iNtuiting and extraverted Sensing focus in the here and now and on possibilities and opportunities. The differentiating factor is abstraction or concreteness.

 

[miss fortune]

I would say that he is kind of close to borderline between the two.

How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me

 

[Jeffster]

I would say that he is kind of close to borderline between the two.

How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me

Which one of you is which?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Heh, we are trying to determine type by interpreting two writings that have been translated from another language.

Well, even though you should take all of our opinions with the tiniest grain of salt, I'd say he's ENTP. He's got several places where he uses parentheses to express extra thoughts outside of the normal conversation. I do that all the time, because Ne naturally generates extra thoughts. (I'm not referring to the parentheses due to translation, but the others which express extra ideas tangent to the conversation.)

 

[miss fortune]

Which one of you is which?

I'm known for wearing things that are wrinkled and don't match Her clothes at least appear to go together

 

[Economica]

How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me

Heh, by that criterion Blackwater (a definite ENTP) is an ESTP.

That said, although I'm somewhat oblivious in this area, I rather think the criterion sorts this guy as an ENTP.

I'd say he's ENTP. He's got several places where he uses parentheses to express extra thoughts outside of the normal conversation. I do that all the time, because Ne naturally generates extra thoughts.

I agree with this. (General for N/N dominants though. I know I too overuse parentheses, at any rate.)

Thanks for the input everyone! I'll make him read descriptions.

Hmm, think telling him Obama is an ENTP and Berlusconi is an ESTP in order to illustrate the relative geekiness of an ENTP smooth operator compared to an ESTP smooth operator will make for an unbiased self-identification?

 

[FDG]

If you don't know if somebody is ENTP or ESTP, chances are he's ENTJ.