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  1. #11
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Oh, so that's the implication here. He's telling you something that you probably don't want to hear, but it's important for you to hear it. Example: I know you told me not to touch your watch, but... (c, ") I did and now it's broken.
    I still don't see it. But I suppose I can always ask him.

  2. #12
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    ENTP. <---That's a period.

  3. #13
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't see anything that leads me to lean either way, really. I don't know any ESTPs though, to be fair. You could get him to read a good description for both types and see which one he prefers? It's been my experience that people will tend to test as more "N" than they actually are, but of course there are always exceptions.

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    For people that think he's an ENTP what leads you to that conclusion?

    That he said he was a perfectionist or his criticism of the soccer people? He seemed to disdain people weren't there for pure love of the game. Is he saying that he doesn't want to connect those thoughts to people he likes? I think when SPs don't identify with the physicality of Se they tend to not believe they're SPs. He tested ESTP; you think ENTP, he's definitely ExTP. So all you have to do is figure out if he uses Se or Ne.

    • Ask him to describe a picture or painting and see how he describes it. See if the way he describes is more Se (color, scene, texture, sound) or Ne (sees one or two things and then starts floating off into space).
    • How does he order food in a restaurant and when he's trying something new, what makes him decide on one dish over another. Listen to how he describes his process and what he focuses on.
    • STs are more practical and realistic than NTs. If he's rattling off a bunch of ideas how does he make his final decision? Is it based on practicality of the present situation or what may be or could happen?
    • When he sizes up a situation? Does he zone in on the facts or the possibilities? How quickly does he react and what does he react to?


    Also you can look for other functions, but since ETPs have the same guts (Ti/Fe), you'd basically have to look for either Si or Ni. Using the food example, I'd think an ENTP would/would not try something new based on a vague sense they'd had a similar food before and (dis)liked it (Si). I'm not sure how Ni would figure into the picture of an ESTP...maybe them not having it before and knowing with out a doubt they would/wouldn't like it without ever having tasting anything like it before? That prior experience may not be as necessary for an ESTP than an ENTP. I'm not sure.

    My impression of ESTPs is that they're sharp and don't miss a beat and very much aware of the most minute body language and interpret quickly and accurately. I'd think ENTPs would be more likely to those kinds of things. I'm not sure whether or not he's ENTP or ESTP and I don't see anything that strongly points in either direction.

    Here's something interesting I found about SPs:
    In our work, we have found that a vast number of_ S_Ps select "N" responses rather than the "S" responses on the MBTI , Their behavior and reports have been taken as typical of those with a preference for N. Because of not using the added information in the temperament model or not paying close attention to Jung's definitions and Myers descriptions, the observations of people with _S_P preferences have filtered back into the mainstream definitions of N. When we go back to Jung's descriptions, we find these descriptions have veered off course from the original meaning.
    Sources of Confusion
    Several descriptors used for iNtuiting misled these individuals to self-report on the MBTI or self-select a preference for "N."

    Big Picture - Many Artisans-SPs are interested in the big picture. They say they want all the detail, the whole story. One ESFP selected "spire" over "foundation," saying he saw himself on top of the spire seeing the whole picture.

    Pattern - Likewise, most of these Artisans-SPs also indicate they look for patterns. Looking for patterns is different than perceiving the pattern first. The differentiating point is the starting place, not the ending place.

    Extraverted Sensing and extraverted iNtuiting are holistic, analogic perceptual modes. In extraverted Sensing, the individual elements, like the trees in the forest, are seen in rich detail, all at once. Thus concrete patterns are quite likely to be perceived along with the discrete sensory information. This pattern is different from the abstract extraverted iNtuiting perception of the relationships and connections of the trees to the rest of the environment. Both pattern and big picture can be on a continuum from concrete to abstract.

    Possibilities - These Artisans-SPs frequently respond to "possibilities" as an accurate descriptor. When we probed deeper, they described seeking opportunities for action, usually what to do next and what will work to solve a problem. They like brainstorming and coming up with variations on a theme, until the process goes on and on and on and gets too far away from reality. Those who prefer extraverted iNtuiting are increasingly excited by the ideas sparked in the process regardless of how far abstracted from reality. Both extraverted iNtuiting and extraverted Sensing focus in the here and now and on possibilities and opportunities. The differentiating factor is abstraction or concreteness.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #15
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I would say that he is kind of close to borderline between the two.

    How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

    That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #16
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I would say that he is kind of close to borderline between the two.

    How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

    That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me
    Which one of you is which?
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  7. #17
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Heh, we are trying to determine type by interpreting two writings that have been translated from another language.

    Well, even though you should take all of our opinions with the tiniest grain of salt, I'd say he's ENTP. He's got several places where he uses parentheses to express extra thoughts outside of the normal conversation. I do that all the time, because Ne naturally generates extra thoughts. (I'm not referring to the parentheses due to translation, but the others which express extra ideas tangent to the conversation.)
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  8. #18
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Which one of you is which?
    I'm known for wearing things that are wrinkled and don't match Her clothes at least appear to go together
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #19
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    How does he dress? Does he seem aware of what he's wearing or do you get the feeling that he's merely wearing clothes because he has to and hasn't really put much thought into it?

    That's one of the easiest superficial ways to tell my ESTP friend from me
    Heh, by that criterion Blackwater (a definite ENTP) is an ESTP.

    That said, although I'm somewhat oblivious in this area, I rather think the criterion sorts this guy as an ENTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I'd say he's ENTP. He's got several places where he uses parentheses to express extra thoughts outside of the normal conversation. I do that all the time, because Ne naturally generates extra thoughts.
    I agree with this. (General for N/N dominants though. I know I too overuse parentheses, at any rate.)

    Thanks for the input everyone! I'll make him read descriptions.

    Hmm, think telling him Obama is an ENTP and Berlusconi is an ESTP in order to illustrate the relative geekiness of an ENTP smooth operator compared to an ESTP smooth operator will make for an unbiased self-identification?

  10. #20
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    If you don't know if somebody is ENTP or ESTP, chances are he's ENTJ.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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