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  1. #1
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Default I am my type, but don't "look" it. Why?

    So this has been on my mind ever since the meetup with @Showbread @BadOctopus and @EJCC several weeks ago, and I want to talk it out.

    I am not calling my type into question. I know I am ENFJ, and I also know I am 1w2. The former though is somewhat odd to me. I know I am ENFJ because I definitely work foremost with Fe in my mind, and I supplement it with fairly equal parts Ni and Se (though I did not begin using the latter "right" until this past fall). Though it doesn't always come across that way.

    I don't look like an ENFJ, and I want to understand why.

    Note, I am only pointing out the external differences that most fly counter to what ENFJ usually is: On the surface, I appear like a Te dom, in some situations I sometimes look like an Se dom (though that's uncommon), but I don't really look like an Fe dom, and I am comparing myself to many other Fe doms that I know. There's four of us ENFJ's in my core friend group, and while all of us are very similar and can be "lumped together" there are areas where I am fundementally different with how I externally operate, and I don't know any other ENFJ's that share this. On issues, I actually quite often see eye to eye much more easily with several of my ISTJ friends. First and foremost, I am blunt and straightforward, and I can willingly turn my empathy on and off for many situations. I don't know any other Fe doms that can, or are even willing to do this. For example, if someone around me fucks up and does something wrong, and doesn't care, even if I know them well I will subject them to what the situation deserves, and will very unlikely feel sorry for them.

    I'm also very apt to use "precedent" for solving situations and making judgement calls. My ENFJ friends (and as far as I can tell) most other ENFJ's don't really use that, and it's not their first line to do so. The reason I do so is it's less likely to make error to base something off a known. It's not actually my MO per-say, it's a learned skill. Nevertheless, much like I've learned how to socialize, it's become so ingrained in me that I automatically do it without consciously deciding to do so.

    I don't want to be friends with the world, I want to be friends with people who are worthy. That sounds elitist (and it likely is), but I don't know how to word it otherwise (maybe people I can communicate well with?). Many ENFJ's I know (if not all?) want to be friends with nearly everyone they encounter, want to lift everyone up, and want everyone to be on the same level field. I definitely don't. Many even go out of their way to befriend people who are "broken" or something for the soul reason of feeling "they deserve a friend" or "I can fix that". I do not feel that is my responsibility at all, and I only do that unless there is reason to do so. It's not my MO at all. I associate with people where there is a mutual gain between both parties. Most ENFJ's actively seek the things I go against when it comes to people.

    I can be very driving, very blunt/forceful, and have no issues imposing my will on other people. It doesn't need to be fueled by emotion or subjectivity either. In fact, I am far more comfortable with it when I have a solid external reason, authority, or solid item I can reference in an unambiguous manner. That way if people challenge it, it can't really be debated or pushed back against using a loophole or some bullshit technicality. Most ENFJ's are fairly forward, but aren't directly blunt or actively driving of others. In particular in an unambiguous manner. They tend to do much better when it is based off ambiguity.

    Those are the big ones, I am sure others will come up/come out as the discussion ensues. Still, it's very puzzling to me why have so many atributes that go against what ENFJ's typically are. I know it happens occasionally, but that doesn't make it seem any less bizarre, or potentially invalidating. There's a reason Fe is associated with friendliness and inclusiveness. Just as Ni is associated with going with your gut and not needing a historical backing. I go opposite of those stereotypes. It's just the frequency and level that I go against them is high enough that it almost doesn't fit, despite thinking through those functions.

    Thoughts? Questions? Discuss.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  2. #2
    What Is Life? RobinSkye's Avatar
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    I completely get that. What else would you expect to see externally from an Fe dom? What function do you relate with me externally?
    Ti = Ne > Ni > Si > Te = Fi > Se > Fe
    5w4 - 4w3 - 1w9
    Chaotic-True Neutral.

    My Socionics test result: http://www.sociotype.com/tests/resul....V8bh7vuL.dpuf

  3. #3
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinSkye View Post
    What else would you expect to see externally from an Fe dom?
    Several points that I've noticed.

    + An aptness to root and lite up for the underdog.
    + Disinclination to take a cold rational seriously because it's not tempered (I do this occasionally, but not frequently).
    + Making a concerted effort to make sure others interactions are being productive, even if it doesn't directly effect them.
    + Needs to be busy all the time, but if it's counter-productive that's ok.
    + Displaying their caring aspect in a show-y manner.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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  4. #4
    What Is Life? RobinSkye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Several points that I've noticed.

    + An aptness to root and lite up for the underdog.
    + Disinclination to take a cold rational seriously because it's not tempered (I do this occasionally, but not frequently).
    + Making a concerted effort to make sure others interactions are being productive, even if it doesn't directly effect them.
    + Needs to be busy all the time, but if it's counter-productive that's ok.
    + Displaying their caring aspect in a show-y manner.
    This confirms some of the things I thought I was noticing in Fe users.
    Ti = Ne > Ni > Si > Te = Fi > Se > Fe
    5w4 - 4w3 - 1w9
    Chaotic-True Neutral.

    My Socionics test result: http://www.sociotype.com/tests/resul....V8bh7vuL.dpuf

  5. #5
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinSkye View Post
    This confirms some of the things I thought I was noticing in Fe users.
    They're common. Bare in mind external manifestations of the cognitive functions are not reliable, and there are a number of people that will not fit the classic picture that shows up with high frequency. I mean, you can't readily put 7,000,000,000 people in 16 boxes and expect them to all look very similar to one another in outward apperence. Function manifest in different ways.

    I just appear to be a bit of an outlier in this respect. There are other people here (@Jennifer comes to mind in particular) who are their type, but outwardly run counter to quite a number of the "classic behaviors" of their type. It's been discussed before, but I haven't seen it come up for ENFJ, and I am just now seeing it more clearly for myself. It's further supported by the fact that there's a minority of people here who are *convinced* I am an ESTJ.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

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  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It's hard to explain, but Te in an ESTJ feels detached....when you use it, it feels like it's in service to your personal values and very attached.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, your dad is ESTJ. Perhaps you experienced enough of his Te-dom when you were young that you've incorporated some aspects of it into yourself in whatever way Fe-dom would interpret that?
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #8
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's hard to explain, but Te in an ESTJ feels detached....when you use it, it feels like it's in service to your personal values and very attached.
    This would be accurate, and it bugs the piss out of me. I feel like I shouldn't be attached to them, and I try not to, but it just doesn't work. It's another topic though.

    Would you say this is something readily picked up? Or something that's not noticed until repeated experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    If I remember correctly, your dad is ESTJ. Perhaps you experienced enough of his Te-dom when you were young that you've incorporated some aspects of it into yourself?
    He is (he's also 1w2). I definitely have tried to encorporate several of his traits into myself. Granted, we already do have a decent amount in common. Nevertheless, areas he is better than me at, I try and mirror. Some I have completely integrated, or realized it's been in me all alomg.

    Ironically, I did not like or get along with my dad well until I was around 22.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  9. #9
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    I've known two IT manager types that were ENFJ, I think it's just male gender role stuff and Fe tries to act the part.
    {The Diplomat}
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  10. #10
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    SX last maybe one of the main reasons.

    Or maybe there is an off chance you are not an ENFJ.

    I mean if you don't look like your type for too long for too many people you are probably not one. However, I don't think others are saying you are not a ENFJ, it's just that you don't seem like an ENFJ and you feel this? So lets assume you are indeed an ENFJ.

    Maybe it's the fist reason I mentioned (SX last) or maybe you are depressed about something. Or maybe it's because you are a e1. Have you considered 1w9s? They are way more stone cold than 1w2s.

    Leela from Futurama is an ESTJ 1w2 but she comes across as an ENFJ. I attribute this to her maturity and her 2 wing. So if you are a 1 perhaps you are a 1w9 cus w2s make even TJs come across slightly FJish.
    .
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