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  1. #21
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    Perception in MBTI doesn't mean perception. P is spontaneous.
    Judging in MBTI doesn't mean judging. J is planning.

    INFP is a spontaneous personality,
    and INFJ is a planning personality.
    Yes, perception means perception, ergo perception as a verb is to perceive, and someone who perceives is a perceiver. Being a perceiver isn't equal to being spontaneous, but that spotaneity as a trait is more commonly associated with and is more likely to appear in a perceiver than it is a judger. However, the original definition and why an INFP is called a P or a perceiver type, is because their first extroverted function is Ne which is a perceiving function. Myers thought that people would behave in a way associated with and typical to our first extroverted function as this would be the one that would be primarily observed and manifested in the world, but this is not the basis why an INFP is called an INFP.

    You cannot equal the traits associated with the letter dichotomy code to be equal to the letter dichotomy code, because the traits are results of the dichotomy but are in themselves, not intrinsic to or a actually what defines the dichotomy letter code. This is why the MBTI test stresses clarity as being of importance, because clarity suggests how clear a preference one has towards one of the dichotomies over the other dichotomies, which, in the grand scheme of things, is meant to suggest one's innate preferences. Great clarity is equaled to a greater chance of having that particular dichotomy as one's preference e.g. 80% N means that you are 80% more likely to be an intuitive over a sensor, but it doesn't mean you cannot or are not a sensor.

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  2. #22
    Injustice Needs To stoP RandomINTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    Yes, perception means perception, ergo perception as a verb is to perceive, and someone who perceives is a perceiver. Being a perceiver isn't equal to being spontaneous, but that spotaneity as a trait is more commonly associated with and is more likely to appear in a perceiver than it is a judger. However, the original definition and why an INFP is called a P or a perceiver type, is because their first extroverted function is Ne which is a perceiving function. Myers thought that people would behave in a way associated with and typical to our first extroverted function as this would be the one that would be primarily observed and manifested in the world, but this is not the basis why an INFP is called an INFP. You cannot equal the traits associated with the letter dichotomy code to be equal to the letter dichotomy code, because the traits are results of the dichotomy but are in themselves, not intrinsic to or a actually what defines the dichotomy letter code.
    t's not the dominant function that decides if you're a J or a P. It's the extroverted function that does. So if you're an Introvert, your dominant function is introverted. That means your auxiliary function, which is in that case extroverted, is the function that decides of you're a J or a P. That means the auxiliary function decides if J or P with introverts, because with introverts, the auxiliary function is the dominant extroverted one.

    I have dominant introverted thinking. Thinking is a judging function. I have auxiliary extroverted intuition. Intuition is a percieving function, and therefore, I'm a perciever.

    I believe, @Violet Rose has dominant Ni. that's a percieving function. But she has auxiliary Fe, which is a judging function.
    MBTI:
    Alignment: Chaotic-Neutral
    Sins: Pride > Sloth > Gluttony > Wrath > Greed > Lust > Envy

    "Only two things are infinite. The universe, and human stupidity, but I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
    "You know you're in love when you can't fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams." -Dr. Seuss
    "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -J. K. Rowling

  3. #23
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    t's not the dominant function that decides if you're a J or a P. It's the extroverted function that does. So if you're an Introvert, your dominant function is introverted. That means your auxiliary function, which is in that case extroverted, is the function that decides of you're a J or a P. That means the auxiliary function decides if J or P with introverts, because with introverts, the auxiliary function is the dominant extroverted one.

    I have dominant introverted thinking. Thinking is a judging function. I have auxiliary extroverted intuition. Intuition is a percieving function, and therefore, I'm a perciever.

    I believe, @Violet Rose has dominant Ni. that's a percieving function. But she has auxiliary Fe, which is a judging function.
    Did you even read what I wrote? To quote myself:
    the original definition and why an INFP is called a P or a perceiver type, is because their first extroverted function is Ne which is a perceiving function.
    If you want to prove that the OP is an INFJ, especially if you are going to type her functionally, you need to prove that she is also cognitively oriented by the functions you suggest she's cognitively oriented to, that her thinking reflects a preference towards understanding the world though the lens of Ni and Fe. If you cannot do that, your entire attempt at typing the OP is bunk. If you are typing off the traits associated with the dichotomies, you stick with the dichotomies, because these traits fall apart once one begin to introduce the functions in the mix, since as I already wrote, an INFJ leads with a perceiving function. Ni is, as you wrote, a perceiving function. To quote yourself:

    I believe, @Violet Rose has dominant Ni. that's a percieving function.
    You essentially agree with me that an INFJ is a perceiver as in, they lead with a perceiving function and will as such, not necessarily manifest traits explicitly associated with judgers because they are not judgers first, but perceivers first. That they are called judgers is only because Fe is, as we agreed on, their first extroverted function and is a judging function. Again, the symptom is not the cause but the symptom has a correlation with the cause, but it does not mean that correlation equals to causation.

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  4. #24
    Injustice Needs To stoP RandomINTP's Avatar
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    @Entropic, Challenge accepted.


    • Beauty is subjective and can be found in anything, as long as one looks hard enough. Beauty doesn't necessarily have to be something that is pleasing to the eye, but a romanticized idea, derived possibly from nostalgia, or that with which one can relate to, or find inspiration from etc.
    If this isn't Ni, I don't know what is. It also has a Fe aspect to it with being subjective.

    •To me, love is a feeling that inspires loyalty that has been developed by a connection in which one relates to something else or possibly from respect...
    I personally don't agree with this at all, but since my opinion is irrelevant, I can't say anything to this because I can't relate to it. I'd say Ni/Fe from gut instinct.

    What are your most important values?
    •Integrity, Commitment, Understanding, Dependability, Humbleness, Wisdom, Sincerity.
    Integrity is F in general. Commitment is Fe. Understanding is Ni. Dependability is Se. Now humbleness actually sounds like Fi. Wisdom is Ti. Sincerity is as Fe as it gets.

    • I don't have a particular religion that I affiliate myself with, but I like finding parallels in religion, and wonder if there is some underlying truth to them all in one way or another, in their similarities, or the reasons for which people practice religion.
    Sounds like something I would say. I sense a strong Ti.

    •I don't like war at all. I wish that there was a better way that others would accept to come to a mutual agreement. It makes me sad to know that those opposing each other have their own families and they may misunderstand or even demonize each other by differences in culture or what they have heard from others about a particular race or culture. I think that once a fire had been shot, it can lead to a constant eye for an eye, and bitterness towards the opposition, until one side can now longer go on, with hatred that can last generations.
    This is fucking wisdom in a half. Definitely Ti, Fe would make sense, not sure about N and S.

    •Power is an influence over others.
    Of course it is. That tells us nothing about what she thinks about it. She just stated a fact.

    •I like talking about books, why people do the things they do, I'll have conversation with just about anything, really. I like to read and to overthink everything.
    Another INTP-ish statement. Though interests are subjective, this smells like Ti and Ne.

    •I'm not extremely interested about it. I like guessing what's wrong with people from their symptoms and helping them find an answer, usually resorting to google. I don't like eating foods high in sugar or fat. But I don't really exercise. I don't know, maybe?
    Problem solving is another sign of Ti. The value of helping is rather Fe-based. The rest is all personal.

    •If I get into the groove of doing everything, and keeping up with everything consistently, and not letting it pile up on me, I'm fine. But the moment it goes overboard, I find myself mad at myself for letting it get out of control, and find it hard to get back in the groove, so I try to stay in it.
    This might be due to indeveloped Se, in other words: Inferior Se.

    •My favorite movies are The Lord of the Rings/Hobbit movies., Beauty and the Beast, Harry Potter movies,The Beach, Donnie Darko, The Hours..
    This could all be personal, but Lord of the Rings is something with a very deep and complex plot you could think about for hours. Ti again.
    Harry Potter as well. Something these movies share as well is that they are very expressive. Fe is guaranteed here.

    •Cry: Death of a loved one. Or the feeling of not living up to the standard of what I should be like, and being criticized for it.
    The feeling not living up to a standard is most likely a low self-esteem triggered by Ni, connected to Se, influencing Fe.

    •Smile: little kids, irony, people helping others, old couples opening doors for each other.
    If she was Fi, she would feel happy, but not necessarily show it on the outside. Another proof she's Fe.

    Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
    •With my family.
    Not sure, but this could be a slight Fi.

    What have people seen as your weaknesses?
    •Weakness: I'm a pushover.
    Might be the Ni and Ti combination plus the Fe for being friendly that makes her a pushover.

    •Dislike about myself: Whenever I do anything I think is wrong, I dislike myself for it. My library books are late, therefore I feel like a bad person and it has been eating me alive. I don't really mind that I'm a pushover, because I don't like pushing others around. But I think I lack the ability to put myself out there, as in just accepting a position and staying there instead of trying to 'ladder climb'. I lack the will or the will to care because I don't have a competitive nature. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but will probably hurt me in the long run.
    I mentioned her having a low self-esteem triggered by Ni, Se, influencing Fe. Here, it's more extreme. think she has low self-esteem issues.

    •Strengths: People generally say I'm easy to get along with. That I'm a good person.
    Definitely Fe, and there's also a Se aspect. I believe her inferior se is actually not as bad, but the way the cognitive functions are fighting against each other is a bad thing.

    •Like about myself: That I don't succumb to loosing myself in a group to gain recognition and popularity. That I stay true to myself.
    My NJ dad (sometimes INFJ) is usually always honest. he never lies, and if he wants to hide the truth, he simply doesn't tell me.
    My dad is very true to himself to the point where he sometimes believe I'm not true of myself, but that's not true.

    In what areas of your life would you like help?
    •I need guidance. Someone to manage my finances and tell me exactly how much I should spend on everything. Someone to budget my life. Someone to tell me how to do what I need/want to do.
    Sounds like a lack of Te and underdeveloped Se.

    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    •Sometimes. Usually because of depression and life feeling monotonous. My reaction is to stay in my house and not leave. Pour myself into a book or google.
    Sounds like a routine, something she did before and has done the same way every time. If that isn't extroverted judging (feeling), then I don't know what is.

    •I like people that know what they are doing with confidence. I like people that genuinely try to understand and respect other people ,or that accept others, despite their flaws.
    Total Fe.

    •I dislike people that say things that hurt others feelings just to appease a group, those with poor self-awareness, or that just do things for looks or popularity.
    More Fe, and some Ni.

    How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
    •I think of romance as a commitment to someone I love and respect. Qualities I like are maturity, intelligence, diligence, respectful...someone who knows what they are doing in life.
    Really wise. More Ti and Ni. Fe anyway... Se obviously too since this is sex we're talking about.

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    •That they will always be able to come to me for anything, no matter what. I want then to treat others well by being accepting of others and not a bully. To respect other people.
    Planning your kids' actions, huh? I like the anti-bullying aspect of it. Really Fe.

    A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
    •Inward I'd probably be mad, but try to understand why they might feel that way. It depends what it's about and how strongly I feel about the topic that decides whether I respond to it.
    You'd think being mad inward is introverted feeling, but I can be inward mad, too, and I'm an inferior extroverted feeler.

    Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    •I kind of see myself as outside society. I see people as a whole containing patterns of an underlying truth about humanity, remaining consistent over time, the good and bad.
    That really sounds like an INFJ. Ni, Ti, Fe, and Se.

    •A prevalent social problem is the lack of understanding between people.
    I agree. Cognitive functions aside, that sounds like Enneagram Type 2, sexual variant.

    How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
    •I choose my friends by how interesting, reliable, and accepting they are, and our shared interests. I'm pretty open with my friends, random in conversation, dorky...
    Okay, that does sound like an introvert.

    How do you behave around strangers?
    •I keep a neutral distance and watch them from afar to decide if I'm going to like them or not, evaluating how they act towards others, sometimes. But if they seem open, approachable, and friendly, I'll be friendly back.
    Sounds like an INFJ as well.

    God, finally done. That text was @Hard to type (I mean typing on the keyboard, not typing @Violet Rose)...
    MBTI:
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    "Only two things are infinite. The universe, and human stupidity, but I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
    "You know you're in love when you can't fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams." -Dr. Seuss
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  5. #25
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default What type do you think I am?

    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    I never claimed it's a fact that the OP is an INFP, but I am claiming that it is a fact that the INFP type is actually a judging type first, because Fi is a judging function. That's a big difference.

    Also, traits such as being planning and organized or spontaneous are largely learned. I'm an INTJ but I'm mostly spontaneous as a person. Why? I lead with perception first, and I have inferior Se. /shrug
    That's incorrect INFP is not a judging type first INFP is a perceiving type first. INFP use there N function to engage with the would and there F function silently sits back as the observer. You are most likely correct asserting that the F function for the INFP is Fi and it acts as a judging function, but that to is most likely not quite correct the F function could be said to be Fe because it observes what is taking place and seldom shows up to partake in interactions.

    I think it is best to call infp a type that predominantly utilises the NP functions to interact with the would and some times when moved to by inner forces brings the F function to the forefront in more than one way Fe and Fi depending upon the what is being expressed and I would assert that there is a third expression of F for the INFP and that is F supported by N&S, this form of F is a spontaneous flowing expression as if it is a form of expression that takes a shape of the F being the Hole Brain centre, as in the hole brain thinking model. Where in the F function is at the centre and the quadrants A B C D are like a receptive working of ambidextrous S&N and T&F / I-E and P-J.

    It is difficult to explain but it is as the INFP has moved to a state of sobriety and omits its values clearly as a.form of I Am personal expression. Some what like an action of reconciliation where in Higher Mental Centre and Higher Emotional Centre and the Instinctive Centre are expressed as the law of three hosting the INFP's clarity expressed via function F.

    You could call it I you could call it E you could call it P you could call it J, the fact is it is hard to call because it is taking the for of an expression of a Higher Synergy from within expressed with out biases accumulated.

    There are different degrees of how pure the quality of the expression of the F function can operate within the INFP but I have given you closest to touching upon Essential Nature, Essence.

    The F can be expressed as if gently being balanced between Ni and Ne and Si and Se, that is a more intimate expression of the F freely flowing and utilised by the INFP who trust and seeks to partake in and contribute to the generating of good interpersonal interactions.

    The difference between the two forms as examples I gave is basically the level of Health. The first example was basically level 1 - level 2 the level of liberation the level of phycological capacity.

    The second example is basically level 3 - level 4 the level of social value the level of imbalance.

    INTJ' s can be spontaneous but they need first a plan a form of ordered activity and then that can act spontaneously. INTJ needs to have worked the T function first to allow the N function the freedom for the enactment of perception spontaneity free from free within free along side there inner NT.

    Naturally the activity dose not have to be learnt every time before the activity for the INTJ but if the INTJ has difficulties interpersonally of socially then planing and working through resistance may require a set of judgments to be formed first before allowing the self to partake.

    INTJ's who have learnt the game can act with little planning because they know how to conduct them selves with a balance of I and E and P and J and make good actives and good interaction there goal.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenFly View Post
    That's incorrect INFP is not a judging type first INFP is a perceiving type first. INFP use there N function to engage with the would and there F function silently sits back as the observer. You are most likely correct asserting that the F function for the INFP is Fi and it acts as a judging function, but that to is most likely not quite correct the F function could be said to be Fe because it observes what is taking place and seldom shows up to partake in interactions.

    I think it is best to call infp a type that predominantly utilises the NP functions to interact with the would and some times when moved to by inner forces brings the F function to the forefront in more than one way Fe and Fi depending upon the what is being expressed and I would assert that there is a third expression of F for the INFP and that is F supported by N&S, this form of F is a spontaneous flowing expression as if it is a form of expression that takes a shape of the F being the Hole Brain centre, as in the hole brain thinking model. Where in the F function is at the centre and the quadrants A B C D are like a receptive working of ambidextrous S&N and T&F / I-E and P-J.

    It is difficult to explain but it is as the INFP has moved to a state of sobriety and omits its values clearly as a.form of I Am personal expression. Some what like an action of reconciliation where in Higher Mental Centre and Higher Emotional Centre and the Instinctive Centre are expressed as the law of three hosting the INFP's clarity expressed via function F.

    You could call it I you could call it E you could call it P you could call it J, the fact is it is hard to call because it is taking the for of an expression of a Higher Synergy from within expressed with out biases accumulated.

    There are different degrees of how pure the quality of the expression of the F function can operate within the INFP but I have given you closest to touching upon Essential Nature, Essence.

    The F can be expressed as if gently being balanced between Ni and Ne and Si and Se, that is a more intimate expression of the F freely flowing and utilised by the INFP who trust and seeks to partake in and contribute to the generating of good interpersonal interactions.

    The difference between the two forms as examples I gave is basically the level of Health. The first example was basically level 1 - level 2 the level of liberation the level of phycological capacity.

    The second example is basically level 3 - level 4 the level of social value the level of imbalance.

    INTJ' s can be spontaneous but they need first a plan a form of ordered activity and then that can act spontaneously. INTJ needs to have worked the T function first to allow the N function the freedom for the enactment of perception spontaneity free from free within free along side there inner NT.

    Naturally the activity dose not have to be learnt every time before the activity for the INTJ but if the INTJ has difficulties interpersonally of socially then planing and working through resistance may require a set of judgments to be formed first before allowing the self to partake.

    INTJ's who have learnt the game can act with little planning because they know how to conduct them selves with a balance of I and E and P and J and make good actives and good interaction there goal.
    Have you read anything by Carl Jung? Do you know the difference between rationality and irrationality? F regardless if it's Fi or Fe is a rational function. It seeks to organize and structure the world. Feeling does that by evaluating things based on how something feels judging things on a matter of values. This is why Jung speaks of the rational type as striving for and trying to create a utopia. This is because when one is leading with a judging function, structuring and making sense of impressions and experiences take precedence over understanding the experiences in themselves. Experience is made to fit into an ideal of how the world should be like instead of accepting it as a place of irrational facts. Perception deals with the world as it is, but judgement how it should be. Just because the MBTI tries to de-emphasize the judging elements of Ji in the IxxP, it doesn't mean that they are actually irrational types in the strict Jungian sense. I think the MBTI places too much emphasis on the auxiliary in introverts. INTJs often sound more like introverted ENTJs than people would lead with introverted perceptio, because I there is more emphasis placed on Te than Ni. I think socionics got the temperaments more right than the MBTI is this regard, that distinguishes between IP and IJ.

    The rest that you write honestly sounds like really shallow MBTI lingo that doesn't really say anything about people. I'm an INTJ and I don't relate to what you write I should be like. Having auxiliary Je doesn't make you into a Je dom. If anything, I relate far more to the socionics IP temperament description of being overly passive and just letting life fly me by, often feeling kind of lethargic and lacking in energy in the sense that it's easier to sit and observe how things are developing than routinely chasing after new experience.

    This is the problem I have with you INTP type 5s. You rather sit and intellectually masturbate over the logical definitions of what things are instead of you know, go and actually observe real people and the world around you. This is exactly why Jung notes that rational types strive to reach a utopia, because the logical construct and how to make the world fit the rules take precedence over actually observing the world in and of itself. Of course I know you won't understand anything I just wrote and will interpret my disagreement as being the expression of that we simply misunderstand each other and you weren't originally articulate enough so you will attempt to rephrase yourself by regurgitating the same information by dressing it up in new clothing and hope that I will now want to buy it because I can recognize the "newness." Nope, I won't. Try to meet me halfway and see from the perspective I'm coming from first, that I'm being very purely Jungian and I don't endorse the shallowness of the MBTI that you are propagating here.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    @Entropic, Challenge accepted.

    • Beauty is subjective and can be found in anything, as long as one looks hard enough. Beauty doesn't necessarily have to be something that is pleasing to the eye, but a romanticized idea, derived possibly from nostalgia, or that with which one can relate to, or find inspiration from etc.
    If this isn't Ni, I don't know what is. It also has a Fe aspect to it with being subjective.
    Your idea of Ni seems poor. This doesn't fit the definition of Ni. There is no focus on perspectives, on understanding something from a different point of view, on the actual symbolic action of love. The only thing that could be loosely correlated to Ni here is the suggestion that beauty is subjective, but if anything, suggesting that one can find love anywhere suggests that one views love as an essential quality which points far more to Ji and in particular, Fi. Fi views feelings such as love as essential concepts. Fe doesn't see concepts subjectively because it is an extroverted function so it therefore seeks to understand things objectively, because it's oriented to the object and the object world.

    •To me, love is a feeling that inspires loyalty that has been developed by a connection in which one relates to something else or possibly from respect...
    I personally don't agree with this at all, but since my opinion is irrelevant, I can't say anything to this because I can't relate to it. I'd say Ni/Fe from gut instinct.
    This is a very Fi-derived sentiment, because it seems to take on the outlook of the subject trying to understand how the subject relates to the object. It's also focused on attraction-repulsion and seems to make a lot of understated personal value judgements i.e. this is what I feel.

    What are your most important values?
    •Integrity, Commitment, Understanding, Dependability, Humbleness, Wisdom, Sincerity.
    Integrity is F in general. Commitment is Fe. Understanding is Ni. Dependability is Se. Now humbleness actually sounds like Fi. Wisdom is Ti. Sincerity is as Fe as it gets.
    Integrity as a value is unrelated to any function. Anyone can value integrity and the real question that shows someone's type here would be why they value it. The same goes for all the other values here. You seem to make a lot of shitty post hoc connections as if wisdom is somehow exclusive to Ti. You don't even know what kind of wisdom she's talking about and why she values it. Anyone can value wisdom.

    • I don't have a particular religion that I affiliate myself with, but I like finding parallels in religion, and wonder if there is some underlying truth to them all in one way or another, in their similarities, or the reasons for which people practice religion.
    Sounds like something I would say. I sense a strong Ti.
    Jeez. This is so Fi, especially the part in bolded. First of all she states a personal preference, a focus on like-dislike, and it veers into unconscious Te i.e. how or why people perform in such a way. Nothing Ti about this. There's no focus on logical consistency and so on.

    •I don't like war at all. I wish that there was a better way that others would accept to come to a mutual agreement. It makes me sad to know that those opposing each other have their own families and they may misunderstand or even demonize each other by differences in culture or what they have heard from others about a particular race or culture. I think that once a fire had been shot, it can lead to a constant eye for an eye, and bitterness towards the opposition, until one side can now longer go on, with hatred that can last generations.
    This is fucking wisdom in a half. Definitely Ti, Fe would make sense, not sure about N and S.
    This is extremely Fi. She's talking about how she's feeling about something, and she's doing that based on her own subjective understanding which points towards introversion. It's Fi paired with intuition. We know it's intuition because she's looking at how people will behave, what it leads to, what comes next. If it was sensation she would connect it to be more tangible and observable world, instead of a "what could be."

    •Power is an influence over others.
    Of course it is. That tells us nothing about what she thinks about it. She just stated a fact.
    What function is associated with stating facts? Te.

    •I like talking about books, why people do the things they do, I'll have conversation with just about anything, really. I like to read and to overthink everything.
    Another INTP-ish statement. Though interests are subjective, this smells like Ti and Ne.
    It's Fi, again talking about personal sentiments of like/dislike, how she personally feels about something.

    •I'm not extremely interested about it. I like guessing what's wrong with people from their symptoms and helping them find an answer, usually resorting to google. I don't like eating foods high in sugar or fat. But I don't really exercise. I don't know, maybe?
    Problem solving is another sign of Ti. The value of helping is rather Fe-based. The rest is all personal.
    Again, Fi, talking about personal like/dislike and how she feels about it. It's not like problem-solving is explicit to Ti. Te is actually far better at problem-solving because Te is concerned about logical outcomes, what something results in. Ti is not so much. Also, anyone can desire to help another human being. That's not explicit to Fe. Your idea of Fe is really poor and stereotype.

    •If I get into the groove of doing everything, and keeping up with everything consistently, and not letting it pile up on me, I'm fine. But the moment it goes overboard, I find myself mad at myself for letting it get out of control, and find it hard to get back in the groove, so I try to stay in it.
    This might be due to indeveloped Se, in other words: Inferior Se.
    Sounds more like weak ST qualities, something that isn't unique or explicit to INFJs. INFPs also have inferior ST qualities, being an NF type as well.

    •My favorite movies are The Lord of the Rings/Hobbit movies., Beauty and the Beast, Harry Potter movies,The Beach, Donnie Darko, The Hours..
    This could all be personal, but Lord of the Rings is something with a very deep and complex plot you could think about for hours. Ti again.
    Harry Potter as well. Something these movies share as well is that they are very expressive. Fe is guaranteed here.
    You need to stop project yourself onto the OP, lol. You are not them and their motivations are not shared by you. Just because you can relate it doesn't mean they think or understand things the same way you do. It's a very consistent pattern that makes you honestly, a very poor typer, because you are typing yourself, not the OP. There's nothing about these movies that necessarily suggest much as to what type the OP could be, but the OP does seem to favor stories that are Ne-derived e.g. Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. Has nothing to do with the supposed complexity of the plot. You need to stop projecting.

    •Cry: Death of a loved one. Or the feeling of not living up to the standard of what I should be like, and being criticized for it.
    The feeling not living up to a standard is most likely a low self-esteem triggered by Ni, connected to Se, influencing Fe.
    Except she's talking about a feeling, being oriented by the feeling function, how things feel to her. It's very Fi, especially inferior Te, the fear of being criticized of not living up to standards, because Fi types often have struggles with feeling that they don't perform as well as they should but they have issues evaluating how well they actually perform.

    •Smile: little kids, irony, people helping others, old couples opening doors for each other.
    If she was Fi, she would feel happy, but not necessarily show it on the outside. Another proof she's Fe.
    Except she's not talking about how she's showing it, she's talking about what she is reacting to, what things may elicit a smile in her. She's not many any allusions how she's smiling or when she smiles. Only that these things make her smile. Very Fi, talking more about the subjects that she personally feels towards. Also, of course Fi types can smile. I mean, really? Do you honestly think Fi types can't smile?

    Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
    •With my family.
    Not sure, but this could be a slight Fi.
    Doesn't say anything.

    What have people seen as your weaknesses?
    •Weakness: I'm a pushover.
    Might be the Ni and Ti combination plus the Fe for being friendly that makes her a pushover.
    No. If anything, this suggests weak and/or devalued Se, which is supportive of the INFP typing in that INFPs often struggle with asserting themselves.

    •Dislike about myself: Whenever I do anything I think is wrong, I dislike myself for it. My library books are late, therefore I feel like a bad person and it has been eating me alive. I don't really mind that I'm a pushover, because I don't like pushing others around. But I think I lack the ability to put myself out there, as in just accepting a position and staying there instead of trying to 'ladder climb'. I lack the will or the will to care because I don't have a competitive nature. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but will probably hurt me in the long run.
    I mentioned her having a low self-esteem triggered by Ni, Se, influencing Fe. Here, it's more extreme. think she has low self-esteem issues.
    This is very Fi, talking about how she personally feels about things.

    •Strengths: People generally say I'm easy to get along with. That I'm a good person.
    Definitely Fe, and there's also a Se aspect. I believe her inferior se is actually not as bad, but the way the cognitive functions are fighting against each other is a bad thing.
    Seems more Te, relaying a factual nugget others have observed about her.

    •Like about myself: That I don't succumb to loosing myself in a group to gain recognition and popularity. That I stay true to myself.
    My NJ dad (sometimes INFJ) is usually always honest. he never lies, and if he wants to hide the truth, he simply doesn't tell me.
    My dad is very true to himself to the point where he sometimes believe I'm not true of myself, but that's not true.
    Except this isn't about your dad and your relationship to him. This is about the OP and she is not your dad. Seems very Fi, again expressing a personal value or sentiment.

    In what areas of your life would you like help?
    •I need guidance. Someone to manage my finances and tell me exactly how much I should spend on everything. Someone to budget my life. Someone to tell me how to do what I need/want to do.
    Sounds like a lack of Te and underdeveloped Se.
    Yes, it's lack of Te, and it seems like she also seeks Te help, so in a socionics sense, she's actually Te-seeking, placing Te in super-id. Also sounds more DS, the way she emphasizes this need for overt help, which again points towards INFP or EII, not INFJ or IEI. They got Te super-ego and are thus not very appreciative of Te.

    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    •Sometimes. Usually because of depression and life feeling monotonous. My reaction is to stay in my house and not leave. Pour myself into a book or google.
    Sounds like a routine, something she did before and has done the same way every time. If that isn't extroverted judging (feeling), then I don't know what is.
    Except again, she's talking about how she personally feels about something, so Fi, not Fe.

    •I like people that know what they are doing with confidence. I like people that genuinely try to understand and respect other people ,or that accept others, despite their flaws.
    Total Fe.
    Really? It's totally Te DS, admiring people who experience themselves as competent and know how to come across as competent. She finishes this off with another Fi sentiment, what she likes or how she personally feels about something.

    •I dislike people that say things that hurt others feelings just to appease a group, those with poor self-awareness, or that just do things for looks or popularity.
    More Fe, and some Ni.
    This is very Fi, again talking about personal like/dislike and making subjective value judgements.

    How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
    •I think of romance as a commitment to someone I love and respect. Qualities I like are maturity, intelligence, diligence, respectful...someone who knows what they are doing in life.
    Really wise. More Ti and Ni. Fe anyway... Se obviously too since this is sex we're talking about.
    Not really. Again Fi, talking about like/dislike.

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    •That they will always be able to come to me for anything, no matter what. I want then to treat others well by being accepting of others and not a bully. To respect other people.
    Planning your kids' actions, huh? I like the anti-bullying aspect of it. Really Fe.
    No, again, it's Fi. This statement here fits Lenore Thomson's definition of Fi very well:

    Proposed definition #1
    Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude that everything that is manifest (apparent, observable, described) is the expression of a soul or life force, in terms of which everything ultimately makes sense. Everything that happens is the result of a soul expressing its unique nature.

    From this attitude, each living thing is completely unique, and has unique needs. Every living thing needs to express itself and grow in its unique way. None of this can be put into categories or measurements, at least not without blotting out that utter uniqueness of each living thing. Because we are all living things, even though each of us is unique we can still connect to the life force as it exists in others. From an Fi standpoint, the way to respond to things is in a way that is faithful to that underlying life force.

    Proposed definition #2
    Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude of judging things good or bad based on how they harmonize or clash with a living being's inner essence. That inner essence or soul, and how things in the environment get along with it or conflict with it, is knowable only first-hand--ultimately, only by that soul. It is known by attending to one's own emotions in response to things. What you like is good--for you, not necessarily good for others. What you don't like is bad--for you, not necessarily bad for others. Anything outside your own soul is irrelevant to evaluating anything or choosing your course in life.
    A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
    •Inward I'd probably be mad, but try to understand why they might feel that way. It depends what it's about and how strongly I feel about the topic that decides whether I respond to it.
    You'd think being mad inward is introverted feeling, but I can be inward mad, too, and I'm an inferior extroverted feeler.
    And again, this isn't about you but it's about her. If you can't type someone else without first trying to refer to how you yourself would understand something, you are a very bad typer. It's Fi not because her reaction is inwards, but it's Fi because she's talking about how she would personally feel about the situation and that she recognizes the "life force" of other people and that she recognizes and understand that people come from different situations and that what is true for one person is not true for another.

    Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    •I kind of see myself as outside society. I see people as a whole containing patterns of an underlying truth about humanity, remaining consistent over time, the good and bad.
    That really sounds like an INFJ. Ni, Ti, Fe, and Se.
    No, it's very Fi. She's recognizing essential values and qualities of humanity, which is far more reminiscent of how Fi is understood as static in socionics than Fe which is dynamic. Fe is context-oriented, it is entirely defined by the context. Fe does not make essential judgements about good/bad because to Fe, what is good in one situation is bad in another depending on how the environment judges good and bad. It does not operate on consistent definitions of good/bad and applies it evenly across the board that Fi does.

    •A prevalent social problem is the lack of understanding between people.
    I agree. Cognitive functions aside, that sounds like Enneagram Type 2, sexual variant.
    This has nothing to do with type 2. Type 2 has issues pertaining to want to be loved, they want to feel lovable by others. This is a very NF thing to say, though.

    How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
    •I choose my friends by how interesting, reliable, and accepting they are, and our shared interests. I'm pretty open with my friends, random in conversation, dorky...
    Okay, that does sound like an introvert.
    Sounds more like Fi, basing how she chooses friends on how she feels about them, whether she's attracted/repulsed by their character. Seems more Ne in how she suggests she's "open" and "random in conversation," including the term "dorky." Se with Fi is much more serious.

    How do you behave around strangers?
    •I keep a neutral distance and watch them from afar to decide if I'm going to like them or not, evaluating how they act towards others, sometimes. But if they seem open, approachable, and friendly, I'll be friendly back.
    Sounds like an INFJ as well.
    This is so Fi, again referring to how Fi understands things based on attraction/repulsion. This is what Augusta wrote about it when she defined Fi for socionics:

    White (introverted) ethics Fi
    This is the subjective relationship between two carriers of potential or kinetic energy that shows the level of attraction (or repulsion) between one object or subject and another object or subject. Thanks to this IM element a person feels which objects attract him and which repel him. You might say that this perceptual element conveys information about objects' need or lack of need of each other and about the presence or absence of mutual or one-way needs.
    Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.

    When this perceptual element is in the leading position, the individual possesses the innate ability to perceive and evaluate wishes/desires — both his own and others'. He always knows who wants what from whom. He is able to set his awareness of subjective reality and his wishes in opposition to those of others. He has the ability to mould and perfect both his own and others' wishes. He possesses both the ability to provide himself with necessary relationships with others and confidence in his capacity to influence other people. His correct perception of human needs allows him to avoid risky collisions when satisfying his own needs. This engenders the ability to manipulate people's attachments, and the ability and desire to influence people's ethical feelings and bring these feelings closer to societal ideals.
    God, finally done. That text was @Hard to type (I mean typing on the keyboard, not typing @Violet Rose)...
    Yeah, good riddance, no offense, but you are really bad typer because you can't even distance yourself from the person you are typing, constantly projecting yourself onto them. As such you don't end up typing them anymore, but yourself. Furthermore, your understanding of the theory is really weak, not seemingly to know even the basic definitions of the functions and how to recognize them in other people. I really hope people don't take your drivel to heart because this is such serious misinformation if I've ever run across it.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default What type do you think I am?

    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    Have you read anything by Carl Jung? Do you know the difference between rationality and irrationality? F regardless if it's Fi or Fe is a rational function. It seeks to organize and structure the world. Feeling does that by evaluating things based on how something feels judging things on a matter of values. This is why Jung speaks of the rational type as striving for and trying to create a utopia. This is because when one is leading with a judging function, structuring and making sense of impressions and experiences take precedence over understanding the experiences in themselves. Experience is made to fit into an ideal of how the world should be like instead of accepting it as a place of irrational facts. Perception deals with the world as it is, but judgement how it should be. Just because the MBTI tries to de-emphasize the judging elements of Ji in the IxxP, it doesn't mean that they are actually irrational types in the strict Jungian sense. I think the MBTI places too much emphasis on the auxiliary in introverts. INTJs often sound more like introverted ENTJs than people would lead with introverted perceptio, because I there is more emphasis placed on Te than Ni. I think socionics got the temperaments more right than the MBTI is this regard, that distinguishes between IP and IJ.

    The rest that you write honestly sounds like really shallow MBTI lingo that doesn't really say anything about people. I'm an INTJ and I don't relate to what you write I should be like. Having auxiliary Je doesn't make you into a Je dom. If anything, I relate far more to the socionics IP temperament description of being overly passive and just letting life fly me by, often feeling kind of lethargic and lacking in energy in the sense that it's easier to sit and observe how things are developing than routinely chasing after new experience.

    This is the problem I have with you INTP type 5s. You rather sit and intellectually masturbate over the logical definitions of what things are instead of you know, go and actually observe real people and the world around you. This is exactly why Jung notes that rational types strive to reach a utopia, because the logical construct and how to make the world fit the rules take precedence over actually observing the world in and of itself. Of course I know you won't understand anything I just wrote and will interpret my disagreement as being the expression of that we simply misunderstand each other and you weren't originally articulate enough so you will attempt to rephrase yourself by regurgitating the same information by dressing it up in new clothing and hope that I will now want to buy it because I can recognize the "newness." Nope, I won't. Try to meet me halfway and see from the perspective I'm coming from first, that I'm being very purely Jungian and I don't endorse the shallowness of the MBTI that you are propagating here.
    Well what can I say to Entropic, It's not my job to mend and bridge your de fisheries and provided clarity.

    The MBTI is like the enneagram there are many layers that have different patterns.

    Tri-type , Tri-fix , 18 subtypes , 9 energies , three triangles , I'd , ego , supper ego,... And it goes on.

    I don't care what you think about INFP's ; F , Fi , Fe and your understanding or take on the P function your personal difficulties are not my business.

    Good luck with your explorations.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenFly View Post
    Well what can I say to Entropic, It's not my job to mend and bridge your de fisheries and provided clarity.

    The MBTI is like the enneagram there are many layers that have different patterns.

    Tri-type , Tri-fix , 18 subtypes , 9 energies , three triangles , I'd , ego , supper ego,... And it goes on.

    I don't care what you think about INFP's ; F , Fi , Fe and your understanding or take on the P function your personal difficulties are not my business.

    Good luck with your explorations.
    Lel. And I can't say I care for your attempt to lay out these supposed intricate connections to me, that simply read as not understanding the system that well yourself.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #30
    Member avaxtskyr's Avatar
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    The bullets before the answers rekt my soul.


    I won't provide reasoning as to why:

    INFP

    because others have already hit the nail on the head.

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