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Thread: Please type my best guy friend!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    No. Not as much as those who have Fe. Contrast any person with Fi in their first 4 functions between anyone with Fe in their first 4 functions and you'll see how much less seriously the ones with Fi take the worlds problems into account of their own. Fe is much more worldly and Fi is much more personal. Fe is more about values for the better of the world and the people around them and Fi is more about values of self and for their own betterment, although the Fi can manifest as caring about social justice, it most likely won't. As I previously said, Fi can be into social justice, but they won't be actively fighting for it or dramatize it as much as an Fe would unless it is indeed a personal value of theirs and even then it would still be less abundant than in those with Fe.



    Yes, I spend a lot of time alone for an extrovert, but my thoughts are always out there. I insert my opinion where I truly believe it's better and can help, but unlike someone with Fe, it would probably be excessively blunt. I have had a couple of moments where I stand up for people, it's a feel-good moment, I suppose. Most people take me for being a real big jerk, though, but at the same time most of them respect me even though they may talk behind my back and not to my face. So who's winning?



    There's only a "divide" between the two when the person doesn't discern the noticeably discernible. I highly doubt she's an ENFP. If she's an ENFP then I'm an ESFJ. She's most likely an ENFJ, it's not that hard to distinguish the functions, but when one skews them into their own definition, sure, it is. Vibes mean absolutely nothing when there's actually material to work with.

    DJArendee may have gotten banned, but I can say he was more useful than the kids who just like to bicker and stroke their e-ego with useless posts and meaningless interactions.
    I am taking no sides in this. Everyone is valid and I'm just here for a morale booster. I don't participate in any arguments that I don't need to be in unless they are hurting myself, others, or the world.
    "...Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.
    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."
    -The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mychemicalkilljoy View Post
    I am taking no sides in this. Everyone is valid and I'm just here for a morale booster. I don't participate in any arguments that I don't need to be in unless they are hurting myself, others, or the world.
    @Mychemicalkilljoy Fe in a nutshell.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    No. Not as much as those who have Fe. Contrast any person with Fi in their first 4 functions between anyone with Fe in their first 4 functions and you'll see how much less seriously the ones with Fi take the worlds problems into account of their own. Fe is much more worldly and Fi is much more personal. Fe is more about values for the better of the world and the people around them and Fi is more about values of self and for their own betterment, although the Fi can manifest as caring about social justice, it most likely won't. As I previously said, Fi can be into social justice, but they won't be actively fighting for it or dramatize it as much as an Fe would unless it is indeed a personal value of theirs and even then it would still be less abundant than in those with Fe.
    ....
    General definitions and understanding of ENFP and Fi disagree. Also my personal experience disagrees with this. Fi is personally informed, but it is not inherently selfish. It's precisely that it focuses on personal experience that it is more likely to lead to being active in social justice. Fe tends towards shepherding the 'greater good', which is often at the expense of the marginalized. The answer to those who have no voice from a Fe perspective is 'join up'. Fi tends to recognize the marginalized and champion them at the expense of social harmony.

    As I have mentioned, it's generally accepted that ENFP = activist.

    From Leonore Thomson:
    As a Secondary Function, Fi typically leads EFPs to tune into the unmet needs and callings of others--as an avenue to making a sale, as a way to intuit what would entertain people, as a channel to political gain by demonstrating that you understand people's pain (e.g. Bill Clinton), as a way to chart a course through life based on a calling felt to be unique to them. Sometimes it leads them to sense a higher calling to answer to, a sense that their actions have cosmic meaning by virtue of how they aid or hinder life.
    The ENFP nicknames are: "Champion", "Advocate", "Crusader", we go into action when our values, the value of the individual are seen violated. The whole counter-culture movement which propelled the Civil Rights movement was characterized by Fi values of individual expression at the expense of social unrest. Here's a nice little article.

    ENFP the Champion and INFP the Healer

    ENFP the Champion

    The Champion (ENFP): It's interesting that ENFPs are said to be rare with only two or three per cent in the population; however, I know quite a few of them. And, I also have an ability to spot them out. If you're an ENFP & I don't know it & we begin talking, or I'm observing you in a group, I can identify you. ENFPs are loving, charismatic, people attractors, & fierce in their beliefs. They believe that nothing is done without significance (which they can tend to overanalyze as a result) or has a hidden meaning. They certainly don't want to miss out in experiencing this hidden meaning or significance either.

    Their experiences in life are detrimental in the way they use themselves, which is primarily their voice to speak out or against or for what they know is right or wrong. They can make blanket statements rather easy without thinking of it's consequence. But, they do this not out of spite or to hurt someone, but because they feel in their gut that what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.

    I like what Keirsey says of them,

    "This strong drive to speak out on social events can make these Champions tireless in conversing with others, like fountains that bubble and splash, spilling over their own words to get it all out."

    Champions have this knack & enthusiasm above all types to inspire others to join their cause. They have a magnetic personality that makes people to want to be around them. Part of this enthusiasm is due towards ENFPs fulfillment over the dramatic & emotional experience, which they find essential for full life. They can also become bored rather easily, as their emotions & sense of novelty is so broad. They don't want to live through the same experience twice, but have each experience to be new & fresh.

    They are fiercely independent, repudiating any subordination in themselves or to others. Unfortunately for them, people look to them as leaders of the cause & want to be under subordination to them as they look for wisdom & insight. This dependency can weigh on ENFPs, because they don't want to do anything simply out of obligation. One of the main reasons for this is because they strongly value & strive a spontaneous personal authenticity, which they communicate non-verbally. This however, attracts people towards them as well. Too often, Champions fall short in this quest for authenticity & they quickly become aware of it. It's as if they look into the proverbial mirror & see their unauthenticity spewing on them. This leads them to beat themselves up, or belittle in a sense for the slightest self-conscious role-playing.

    They are also the most astute at observing their environment. Their "P" isn't necessarily about being messy or disorganized, but partly due to them probing the people around them to see what lies beneath. They are fully aware that life has good & evil and it's "pregnant with possibilites" for such; hence, they are the most observant & skilled at picking this up in others. They are actually hypersensitive to it, which can cause for muscle tension.

    They have phenomenal intuitive powers & often find themselves trying to figure out what is going on inside others. They read their hidden motives or give special meaning to words or actions. These interpretations can be accurate; yet, it can also be very negative as it introduces something toxic into the relationship when they project false ideals on someone in authority over them. They see what they want to see in their insight and make serious mistakes as a result.

    Although they make occasional misinterpretations, they are congenial, warm, skilled in handling people, fun to be around & very likeable. Their public role tends to be well developed & their capacity for spontaneity & the dramatic. They are very optimisitc in their outlook, and surprised when events don't turn out as such. They have a big imagination & their need to be given a job with more open-endedness allows for them to thrive. Routinization can stifle these bubbly Advocates, even if they enjoy the job at first. They enjoy the creative process of creating a project or gathering people together, but don't like the follow through & details that comes with it.

    As mates they are appealing, sympathetic & non-conformists. And since they need to seek out new avenues for inspirations, their mates should prepare for surprises. Their mates become accustomed to not nail down the first thing that comes out of their mouth, but to see where it goes. As parents, they are devoted, but somewhat unpredictable in handling situations. They shift between role of friend in need to stern authority figure. They also tend to voice strong opinions on discipline, but not willing to enforce it. They are creative parents who provide their children with fun experiences.

  4. #34
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    @Mychemicalkilljoy And I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable, but I can't let ENFP misconceptions go unanswered. I'm not actually arguing over your type, just bringing to light information about Fi.

  5. #35
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    @Qlip Then wouldn't that simply be characteristic of an NF rather than the use of the feeling function? Either way, NFP are more "selfish" than NFJ. Contrast say Mark Twain, alleged ENFP to Plato, alleged INFJ. What you just said basically even agreed with all that I've said, Fi is more individualized and has a lesser scope than Fe so therefore they would be less prone to general activism although they may be more prone to fighting for a specific cause. Regardless, this is trivial and you're arguing my point by agreeing which is redundant. You're trying to make out Fi as more universally caring than Fe when it's really not, obviously one will care more about certain issues more than the other and so prevalence of their opinion and input would be more common. It's not difficult to understand, I don't know why it needs to be discussed. You will notice more Fi in personalized works of art more and you will notice Fe fighting for issues of the world more. The word "more" isn't absolute. Also why does that article mention "P"? Are we going by individual letters now?

    "They have phenomenal intuitive powers & often find themselves trying to figure out what is going on inside others. They read their hidden motives or give special meaning to words or actions. These interpretations can be accurate; yet, it can also be very negative as it introduces something toxic into the relationship when they project false ideals on someone in authority over them. They see what they want to see in their insight and make serious mistakes as a result."

    Isn't this more characteristic of stronger Ni than Ne?

    "They are also the most astute at observing their environment."
    Isn't this more characteristic of Se than Si?

    "Although they make occasional misinterpretations, they are congenial, warm, skilled in handling people, fun to be around & very likeable. Their public role tends to be well developed & their capacity for spontaneity & the dramatic. They are very optimisitc in their outlook, and surprised when events don't turn out as such. They have a big imagination & their need to be given a job with more open-endedness allows for them to thrive. Routinization can stifle these bubbly Advocates, even if they enjoy the job at first. They enjoy the creative process of creating a project or gathering people together, but don't like the follow through & details that comes with it.
    As mates they are appealing, sympathetic & non-conformists. And since they need to seek out new avenues for inspirations, their mates should prepare for surprises. Their mates become accustomed to not nail down the first thing that comes out of their mouth, but to see where it goes. As parents, they are devoted, but somewhat unpredictable in handling situations. They shift between role of friend in need to stern authority figure. They also tend to voice strong opinions on discipline, but not willing to enforce it. They are creative parents who provide their children with fun experiences."
    Sounds more like Fe than Fi. Te-Fi has a way of being more reclusive so I don't see how this exactly fits as ENFP among extroverts are known for being among the more elusive.
    But hey, maybe my understanding of all of the functions is wrong and the article that discusses on the basis of "P" is right.

    @Mychemicalkilljoy All you've said is quite characteristic of someone with dominant Fe as you quickly mention expression of emotion and lack thereof in your friend. Adventurous and more inclined to fashion and the fact that you do not bring up much of the past shows a stronger Se. You finding him smart which in turn leads to your fascination and intrigue of the topics he talks about shows Ni, mostly since the topics you mention he talks about seem to be focused and not in a tremendous variety as Ne would. Poking fun at his fun with math and his use of logic and pointing it out seems in an attempt to contrast with yourself which would be Ti. However as the other guy said, your typing is ultimately up to you and this is just for sport. Getting into relationships doesn't break friendships, ignorance does.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    @Qlip Then wouldn't that simply be characteristic of an NF rather than the use of the feeling function? Either way, NFP are more "selfish" than NFJ. Contrast say Mark Twain to Plato and I'm going by celebritytypes here although I disagree with quite a few of their typings, but I can see where these would come from.
    Once again, I do see how Fi can seem 'selfish' and it's this association is what's misleading you. Fi isn't 'selfish' though, it's individualistic. It's not only concerned with it's own individuality, but the individuality of EVERYBODY. This is what leads it to social activism and justice, both of those subject are about identifying with the plight of the individual, the minority vs the harmony of the majority.

    In my quick research it seems that Plato's conception was more about Social Order than Social Justice. I'll have to read more about it. This is not generally what we refer to as Social Justice now a-days, we're usually talking about equality and fair distribution of opportunity. Here's an except from Wikipedia about Mark Twain who was a well known humanist and was outspoken for the marginalized:

    Civil rights
    Twain was an adamant supporter of the abolition of slavery and emancipation of slaves, even going so far to say "Lincoln's Proclamation ... not only set the black slaves free, but set the white man free also".[95] He argued that non-whites did not receive justice in the United States, once saying "I have seen Chinamen abused and maltreated in all the mean, cowardly ways possible to the invention of a degraded nature ... but I never saw a Chinaman righted in a court of justice for wrongs thus done to him".[96] He paid for at least one black person to attend Yale Law School and for another black person to attend a southern university to become a minister.[97]

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Once again, I do see how Fi can seem 'selfish' and it's this association is what's misleading you. Fi isn't 'selfish' though, it's individualistic. It's not only concerned with it's own individuality, but the individuality of EVERYBODY. This is what leads it to social activism and justice, both of those subject are about identifying with the plight of the individual, the minority vs the harmony of the majority.

    In my quick research it seems that Plato's conception was more about Social Order than Social Justice. I'll have to read more about it. This is not generally what we refer to as Social Justice now a-days, we're usually talking about equality and fair distribution of opportunity. Here's an except from Wikipedia about Mark Twain who was a well known humanist and was outspoken for the marginalized:
    Alright, I see your point, but I'm not mislead. I just said that Fe was more prone to general activism and the dramatics of some of them rather than fighting for specific causes that would inherently affect one with Fi and light a spark. However, it goes both ways, fighting against equality, supporting equality, but Fe would be more outwardly opinionated about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    the NFJ would endorse equality, transvestism, gender pronoun hullabaloo, consider themselves activists even though they may not treat individual people as well even though they want to serve the whole of humanity for the greater good. That's not to say NTJ wouldn't support those endeavors, they just wouldn't be actively fighting for it as much as NFJs would, they'd much rather seek intellectual pursuits or things which would individually benefit them.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    Alright, I see your point, but I'm not mislead. I just said that Fe was more prone to general activism and the dramatics of some of them rather than fighting for specific causes that would inherently affect one with Fi and light a spark. However, it goes both ways, fighting against equality, supporting equality, but Fe would be more outwardly opinionated about it.
    I disagree for aforementioned reasons. Fi empathy isn't near as hit and miss as you'd think, there are always general themes, the same 'sparks' tend to get lit in Fi-ers. Anyway, most of that is in the materials I've posted, so I'll leave it here.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I disagree for aforementioned reasons. Fi empathy isn't near as hit and miss as you'd think, there are always general themes, the same 'sparks' tend to get lit in Fi-ers. Anyway, most of that is in the materials I've posted, so I'll leave it here.
    Okay, what are you even trying to argue? Are you saying that what I'm saying is that Fi is emotionless and therefore doesn't care about anyone, but themselves hence your use of the word selfish? That's not the point I'm trying to make. Whatever your point is goes right over my head because it feels like I've explained it well enough already and you're grabbing at straws trying to debunk whatever I've said that you agree with, but you say you don't perhaps simply for the sake of talking to talk and to skew functions for more personalized reasons which isn't exactly helpful as it is detrimental. Gray areas aren't at all helpful when one is trying to type themselves or another and including them as variables that occur every now and then shouldn't be incredibly relevant. You're trying to find a balance, a 50/50 where there really shouldn't be. You're saying Fi users in general care about everyone's individuality, what aren't their own problems and the individualized efforts and expression of others more than their own? I don't think so. I'm quite sure that's Fe, actually. If Fi were concerned with everyones individuality then why are the most self-expressive painters, artists, writers introverted feelers who come from somewhere within rather than what's around them? Fi is more prone to care more about their own individuality before anybody elses and Fe would probably be those who are superficial and complain about superficiality seeking individuality and fairness for all. Tell me I'm wrong again, though.

    Nelson Mandela, MLK vs the ENFP who fight for or endorse more specific, much more centralized causes.

    Disagree with me all you may, but that's how I see it and unless you want to discuss for hours, I don't think I'll change that. As Ne is considered scattered, Ni is focused and as Fe is the feelings I'm surrounded by and show, Fi is my feelings and values within which are generally held. As Se is every sense that everyone can experience, Si is experience that one himself has experienced. Te is the worlds logic, Ti is their "logic".
    Then there's Se-Ti and Se-Fi capable of looking like Te and Fe and every other combination in between.
    Maybe it's how it manifests in an ENFP, Ne-Fi looking like Fe therefore all the "activism" you mention which I don't see to be incredibly prevalent as much as their interest in personalized arts much like Fe-Ni's heightened interest in activism rather than personalized arts.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00c View Post
    Okay, what are you even trying to argue? Are you saying that what I'm saying is that Fi is emotionless and therefore doesn't care about anyone, but themselves hence your use of the word selfish? That's not the point I'm trying to make. Your point goes over my head because it feels like I've explained it well enough already and you're grabbing at straws.
    I'm saying that Fi-ers, especially ENFPs, tend to be outgoing activists and are actually naturally and more primarily predisposed to be interested and involved and outspoken in Social Justice and Activism. It's a a common association and one I agree with.

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