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  1. #21
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I can see where he's coming from though. The op sounds rather Fi to me as well. It's not the experience the op is describing which sounds Fi (those could just as easily be INFJ as INFP) so much as the description itself of that experience- it's chocked with 'I/me language'. While an INFJ may be just as preoccupied with chasing pristine integrity for its own sake (and to have guilt complexes), we're more apt to present our thoughts about it in a 'we' language.
    The OP comments are no different than conversations I've had with female NFJs, and they don't speak in "we" language. There are, however, a few so-called INTJs in this forum who speak in "we" language. I find it odd, to say the least.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I can see where he's coming from though. The op sounds rather Fi to me as well. It's not the experience the op is describing which sounds Fi (those could just as easily be INFJ as INFP) so much as the description itself of that experience- it's chocked with 'I/me language'. While an INFJ may be just as preoccupied with chasing pristine integrity for its own sake (and to have guilt complexes), we're more apt to present our thoughts about it in a 'we' language.
    Right. And it's not about the guilt per se - it could be any emotion - it's about questioning the self and consequences for the self and its core values. Guilt just happens to be one of the most common emotional manifestations for the super-conscientious INFP type. Lacking concern over tradition and being unconventional sometimes gets them in trouble with authority figures. INFPs want to be good people and are well-intentioned. Authority figures don't understand why they don't simply follow the rules they are given and this leads to conflict with the INFP's individualistic, non-authoritarian values.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    INFPs make decisions based on their personal values. That means an INFP could fly an airliner right into a building or strap grenades to his/her chest and blow up a hotel lobby, all in the name of their personal values. No one said the values had to make sense, only that they be personal. What is viewed as "good" to one, may be viewed as insane to another. Blowing up a lab where animals are caged - a person values the rights of animals and doesn't give a hoot about the methods employed to save the animals, even if it means breaking the law. I chased an activist down Michigan Ave. in Chicago who threw red paint on a woman for wearing a mink coat. All that mattered was his personal values and he didn't care he was committing a crime or causing distress to someone else. The motto: "It's all about me" applies, and everything else be damned. One INFP can differ greatly from another INFP; their personal values can easily be in direct conflict with one another. Furthermore, a personal value need not be out of step or in direct conflict with larger societal values. So if someone's personal values appear consistent with social norms, it doesn't mean they prefer Fe over Fi. It's still their own personal values.

  4. #24
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Right. And it's not about the guilt per se - it could be any emotion - it's about questioning the self and consequences for the self and its core values. Guilt just happens to be one of the most common emotional manifestations for the super-conscientious INFP type. Lacking concern over tradition and being unconventional sometimes gets them in trouble with authority figures. INFPs want to be good people and are well-intentioned. Authority figures don't understand why they don't simply follow the rules they are given and this leads to conflict with the INFP's individualistic, non-authoritarian values.

    Okay, well then actually- while we are agreeing that the op sounds Fi-ish- we are giving different reasons for why the op sounds Fi-ish. I don't think the experience being described is necessarily more INFP than INFJ- but the way it's being expressed sounds more Fi to me.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Okay, well then actually- while we are agreeing that the op sounds Fi-ish- we are giving different reasons for why the op sounds Fi-ish. I don't think the experience being described is necessarily more INFP than INFJ- but the way it's being expressed sounds more Fi to me.
    It is, at least, far and away from being Ni as in INFJ. So you could just as well use a process of elimination.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Te is associated with traditional logic. As for sp/sj/nf/nt, that categorization system is no different from, let's say, sf/st/nf/nt or some other combinations. The difficulty comes when Keirsey claims his temperaments can be used to predict human behavior. This idea is completely unscientific and unfounded.
    SF/NT vs. ST/NF determines Democratic vs. Aristocratic in Socionics.


    SP/SJ/NF/NT is only logically incorrect because it groups the Sensors by J/P and the Intuitives by T/F. SP/SJ is fishing out for a single cognitive function and acting like anyone with Se will behave a certain way, but if you're, say, the Intuitive counterpart the ESFP, the ENFP, your behavior won't be likened to an Fi-creative like they both are -- the ESFP will be likened to all Extroverted Sensors while the ENFP will be likened to all iNtuitive Feelers.

    That completely ignores key cognitive function similarities and differences between types. The similarity between ESFP and ESTP is not parallel to the similarity between an ENFP and an ENFJ. Ya can't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    It is very indicative of Fi. You can see that the OP is primarily concerned with the "self," not with the "other."

    "So, I asked the instructor to take marks off of my assessment card too, because I felt guilty and I would have probably worried about not being punished for my mistakes."

    "So even though he told me the right answer, I left the question blank because I couldn't write the answer or else I would have felt guilty."

    These are beautiful, clear-cut examples of Fi cognition.
    Not all guilt is Fi, I could easily see this as Ni anticipating an Fe-prick and acting on it; a sense of external duty. Isn't Fi more focused on preserving one's own inner emotional state, while keeping a careful emotional distance from those in the environment, rather than attempting to morally compensate as OP does?


    This could just as easily be Fi as it could Fe. Doesn't sound informative at all.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    SF/NT vs. ST/NF determines Democratic vs. Aristocratic in Socionics.


    SP/SJ/NF/NT is only logically incorrect because it groups the Sensors by J/P and the Intuitives by T/F. SP/SJ is fishing out for a single cognitive function and acting like anyone with Se will behave a certain way, but if you're, say, the Intuitive counterpart the ESFP, the ENFP, your behavior won't be likened to an Fi-creative like they both are -- the ESFP will be likened to all Extroverted Sensors while the ENFP will be likened to all iNtuitive Feelers.

    That completely ignores key cognitive function similarities and differences between types. The similarity between ESFP and ESTP is not parallel to the similarity between an ENFP and an ENFJ. Ya can't do that.



    Not all guilt is Fi, I could easily see this as Ni anticipating an Fe-prick and acting on it; a sense of external duty. Isn't Fi more focused on preserving one's own inner emotional state, while keeping a careful emotional distance from those in the environment, rather than attempting to morally compensate as OP does?


    This could just as easily be Fi as it could Fe. Doesn't sound informative at all.
    I stated in another post that guilt isn't the primary factor with Fi but it is a factor in this case.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #28
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    Yeah I totally agree. It is kinda hard to tell at first though.
    "...Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.
    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."
    -The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost

  9. #29
    Member Daydreaming Swan's Avatar
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    A strong system of personal values and ideals is an Fi thing
    4w5 so/sp - 5w4 so/sx - 9w1 sp/so
    Fi > Ne > Ni > Fe > Si > Ti > Se > Te
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