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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rhonorix's Avatar
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    Default Please help me! (ISFJ or INFJ)

    First of all, hello to everyone -- I recently joined this forum and it's the very first forum I have ever been a part of, so I'm sorry if I'm a total noob!

    Anyway, here is my main issue. I had a girlfriend a few years ago that brought me deeper into the subject of psychology. Unfortunately, we broke up before I had the opportunity to ask all the questions I had about the whole new idea of "personality types".. And since then I have been endlessly stuck between INFJ and ISFJ.

    I understand most of what their differences are ... In fact, I decided to dive into the subject again three days ago when I realized I hadn't found the answer when I was a lot younger. I got closer this time -- except for this one tiny detail: abstract and tangible. What exactly even is that? Regardless of how much I research and try to come up with the answer on my own, I'm not sure how to find out how .. Or what.

    I'm sorry that this is so long -- I was very anxious and unsure about even joining. But I am endlessly curios about my type and I really just exhausted all the other possibilities and ways.

    Thank you! ^.^

    [Edit]
    I'm also really confused about the memory thing ISFJ has -- my memory is really bad. Like, so bad I forget I've watched a certain movie or met a certain person. But I do remember a lot of intense moments too, but doesn't everyone? Is there a specific kind of "memory" that ISFJ has? -- or better yet, can an ISFJ have a bad memory?

  2. #2
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    No, Introverted Sensing isn't about having good memory.

    Here is a description about Introverted Sensing; you'll need to click on the spoiler link to open the passage:

    You are so arbitrary.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    That was a long "spoiler" tag essay.

    Introverted Sensing is a feeling-tone that accompanies thoughts and images from the unconscious mind, but which were aroused by concrete events. The thought and/or image is then substituted for the concrete event such that the two are then perceived as equivalent in the mind of the Introverted Sensor. Things that bring up a feeling-tone of fear in the Introverted Sensors mind are to be objectively feared, even if nobody else feels the same way. The Introverted Sensor then subconsciously projects traits upon the object which help "explain" the fear to the conscious mind. The same could be said of the feeling-tone of love or hate.

    Introvert Intuition is much the same as Introverted Sensing, only the subconscious content differs in quality. The subconscious of the Introverted Intuitive does not react to objects so much as to concepts and ideas, philosophies and religions. But as with the Introverted Sensor, the feeling-tone that results is of a black-and-white nature: concepts (instead of things) are automatically considered to be worthy of love or hate, fear, and other passions of the soul, even including a vast indifference toward certain ideas. The feelings run deep, and as with the Introverted Sensor the type is accompanied with the idea of being sui generis, one of a kind. But the Ni type is very concerned with the idea of individualism, both personally and on a world-wide scale. And although their ideas are clearly subjective, both types claim to have an objective basis for their beliefs.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    Member Unionruler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonorix View Post
    [Edit]
    I'm also really confused about the memory thing ISFJ has -- my memory is really bad. Like, so bad I forget I've watched a certain movie or met a certain person. But I do remember a lot of intense moments too, but doesn't everyone? Is there a specific kind of "memory" that ISFJ has? -- or better yet, can an ISFJ have a bad memory?
    Sorry I'm not really clear what you were asking in the main chunk of text but I'll answer this segment from my POV in layman terms.

    ISFJs have very good people memory, we can store away experiences, and particularly snapshots of moments which may be innocuous (like what you were wearing, how you laugh/frown etc.) or significant (if you violated/demonstrated a value of ours).

    Other than that I have very good memories for specific things. Chinese, muscle memory for playing piano, regulations...but notably I don't have good general memory so I can't brute force memorize stuff for exams as well as other Asian Chinese kids.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Rhonorix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post

    Introverted Sensing is a feeling-tone that accompanies thoughts and images from the unconscious mind, but which were aroused by concrete events. The thought and/or image is then substituted for the concrete event such that the two are then perceived as equivalent in the mind of the Introverted Sensor. Things that bring up a feeling-tone of fear in the Introverted Sensors mind are to be objectively feared, even if nobody else feels the same way. The Introverted Sensor then subconsciously projects traits upon the object which help "explain" the fear to the conscious mind. The same could be said of the feeling-tone of love or hate.

    Introvert Intuition is much the same as Introverted Sensing, only the subconscious content differs in quality. The subconscious of the Introverted Intuitive does not react to objects so much as to concepts and ideas, philosophies and religions. But as with the Introverted Sensor, the feeling-tone that results is of a black-and-white nature: concepts (instead of things) are automatically considered to be worthy of love or hate, fear, and other passions of the soul, even including a vast indifference toward certain ideas. The feelings run deep, and as with the Introverted Sensor the type is accompanied with the idea of being sui generis, one of a kind. But the Ni type is very concerned with the idea of individualism, both personally and on a world-wide scale. And although their ideas are clearly subjective, both types claim to have an objective basis for their beliefs.
    Okay, since this is my last shot at figuring this whole deal out before I just give up, I'm gonna do my best... My first language isn't english, I'm fluent and understand it because I lived in USA for the most part, but things like the long spoiler tag thing can get confusing to me (or maybe I'm just really 'slow' and it has nothing to do with the language). I'd much rather you explain in metaphors! What I understood is that Introvert Sensing is more likely to feel deep emotions such as fear towards an object, and Introvert Intuition would fear an idea more? As in, the idea of God punishing me for a sin because of my religion can cause an emotional response stronger than the image of a man running at me with a knife? -- I'm almost 100% sure I misinterpret what you meant -- I've been doing so much research on this subject that I feel my brain turned to mush.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Rhonorix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unionruler View Post
    Sorry I'm not really clear what you were asking in the main chunk of text but I'll answer this segment from my POV in layman terms.

    ISFJs have very good people memory, we can store away experiences, and particularly snapshots of moments which may be innocuous (like what you were wearing, how you laugh/frown etc.) or significant (if you violated/demonstrated a value of ours).

    Other than that I have very good memories for specific things. Chinese, muscle memory for playing piano, regulations...but notably I don't have good general memory so I can't brute force memorize stuff for exams as well as other Asian Chinese kids.

    I'm having a hard time explaining what is confusing me about this because I'm not even sure where to start But you did help me clear up a lot about what they meant with them having a good memory!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonorix View Post
    Okay, since this is my last shot at figuring this whole deal out before I just give up, I'm gonna do my best... My first language isn't english, I'm fluent and understand it because I lived in USA for the most part, but things like the long spoiler tag thing can get confusing to me (or maybe I'm just really 'slow' and it has nothing to do with the language). I'd much rather you explain in metaphors! What I understood is that Introvert Sensing is more likely to feel deep emotions such as fear towards an object, and Introvert Intuition would fear an idea more? As in, the idea of God punishing me for a sin because of my religion can cause an emotional response stronger than the image of a man running at me with a knife? -- I'm almost 100% sure I misinterpret what you meant -- I've been doing so much research on this subject that I feel my brain turned to mush.
    Ni is more influenced by abstract concepts and principles than by reality because the latter (reality) fades into relative unimportance. The idea of God punishing me for a sin is too literal to be an intuition. Perhaps I should have used the word "abstraction." Another good word is "worldly." Ni will be more interested in religion as a general abstract concept, and will think about it in terms of religions world-wide rather than specific religions.

    Si is more influenced by concepts of literal things rather than abstractions. Si may become interested in abstractions but only to the extent that they further their specific real-world goals. Si is not interested in world-wide religions or religion in general but only in particular religions, particularly their own. You may get the impression from an Si type that their religion is "good" while other religions are "evil," although such black-and-white thinking may not be obvious to others because they tend to keep it to themselves.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #8
    Junior Member Rhonorix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Ni is more influenced by abstract concepts and principles than by reality because the latter (reality) fades into relative unimportance. The idea of God punishing me for a sin is too literal to be an intuition. Perhaps I should have used the word "abstraction." Another good word is "worldly." Ni will be more interested in religion as a general abstract concept, and will think about it in terms of religions world-wide rather than specific religions.

    Si is more influenced by concepts of literal things rather than abstractions. Si may become interested in abstractions but only to the extent that they further their specific real-world goals. Si is not interested in world-wide religions or religion in general but only in particular religions, particularly their own. You may get the impression from an Si type that their religion is "good" while other religions are "evil," although such black-and-white thinking may not be obvious to others because they tend to keep it to themselves.

    Okay, now this is exactly the problem ^ using that example, I'm going to explain to you what I remember I did and let you decide whether it was Ni or Si. When I began searching and learning about religion I chose only a few to start wth, which were Judaism, Buddhism and Islam. I wanted to understand their differences were and learn exactly what the religions even believed in and followed, etc.. In fact, I usually study about specifics, like how I began studying about the personality types and the temperaments. That suggests I'm a Si, right? Because I would rather become somewhat of an "expert" in certain subjects? Like what happened during WW2 in each side of it? -- though, you said Si is only interested in their own religion (mostly)? And what if I DON'T assume mine is right and theirs is wrong? I usually research because I want new points of view to consider -- in fact, if I knew someone who liked discussing these subjects, I'd spend my entire day talking about everything as in depth as I can.

  9. #9
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    That was a long "spoiler" tag essay.

    Introverted Sensing is a feeling-tone that accompanies thoughts and images from the unconscious mind, but which were aroused by concrete events. The thought and/or image is then substituted for the concrete event such that the two are then perceived as equivalent in the mind of the Introverted Sensor. Things that bring up a feeling-tone of fear in the Introverted Sensors mind are to be objectively feared, even if nobody else feels the same way. The Introverted Sensor then subconsciously projects traits upon the object which help "explain" the fear to the conscious mind. The same could be said of the feeling-tone of love or hate.

    Introvert Intuition is much the same as Introverted Sensing, only the subconscious content differs in quality. The subconscious of the Introverted Intuitive does not react to objects so much as to concepts and ideas, philosophies and religions. But as with the Introverted Sensor, the feeling-tone that results is of a black-and-white nature: concepts (instead of things) are automatically considered to be worthy of love or hate, fear, and other passions of the soul, even including a vast indifference toward certain ideas. The feelings run deep, and as with the Introverted Sensor the type is accompanied with the idea of being sui generis, one of a kind. But the Ni type is very concerned with the idea of individualism, both personally and on a world-wide scale. And although their ideas are clearly subjective, both types claim to have an objective basis for their beliefs.
    Wut? You trying to confuse her/him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonorix View Post
    First of all, hello to everyone -- I recently joined this forum and it's the very first forum I have ever been a part of, so I'm sorry if I'm a total noob!

    Anyway, here is my main issue. I had a girlfriend a few years ago that brought me deeper into the subject of psychology. Unfortunately, we broke up before I had the opportunity to ask all the questions I had about the whole new idea of "personality types".. And since then I have been endlessly stuck between INFJ and ISFJ.

    I understand most of what their differences are ... In fact, I decided to dive into the subject again three days ago when I realized I hadn't found the answer when I was a lot younger. I got closer this time -- except for this one tiny detail: abstract and tangible. What exactly even is that? Regardless of how much I research and try to come up with the answer on my own, I'm not sure how to find out how .. Or what.

    I'm sorry that this is so long -- I was very anxious and unsure about even joining. But I am endlessly curios about my type and I really just exhausted all the other possibilities and ways.

    Thank you! ^.^

    [Edit]
    I'm also really confused about the memory thing ISFJ has -- my memory is really bad. Like, so bad I forget I've watched a certain movie or met a certain person. But I do remember a lot of intense moments too, but doesn't everyone? Is there a specific kind of "memory" that ISFJ has? -- or better yet, can an ISFJ have a bad memory?
    ISFJs and INFJs can look kind of similar from the outside but are very very different on the inside. An INFJ leads with introverted intuition and the ISFJ leads with introverted sensing. Both share extraverted feeling as an auxiiary function. It makes me realize we really need a clear description of each of the eight cognitive functions on the site. Think of it this way:

    Introverted Sensing (Si) - perceptions derived from your personal subjective experiences in the past; you compare things now to your previous experience
    • Verifying using personal memory
    • Validating the actuality
    • Reliving the emotions in sequence

    Introverted Intuition (Ni) - perceptions derived from a collection of data points you cannot easily describe; like a metaperspective; more focused on what will happen in the future
    • Knowing based on trusted insight
    • Visualizing the essence
    • Synthesizing the whole

    This guy's videos are normally pretty good. Maybe it will help.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...php?tubeid=114

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  10. #10
    Junior Member Rhonorix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Wut? You trying to confuse her/him?



    ISFJs and INFJs can look kind of similar from the outside but are very very different on the inside. An INFJ leads with introverted intuition and the ISFJ leads with introverted sensing. Both share extraverted feeling as an auxiiary function. It makes me realize we really need a clear description of each of the eight cognitive functions on the site. Think of it this way:

    Introverted Sensing (Si) - perceptions derived from your personal subjective experiences in the past; you compare things now to your previous experience
    • Verifying using personal memory
    • Validating the actuality
    • Reliving the emotions in sequence

    Introverted Intuition (Ni) - perceptions derived from a collection of data points you cannot easily describe; like a metaperspective; more focused on what will happen in the future
    • Knowing based on trusted insight
    • Visualizing the essence
    • Synthesizing the whole

    This guy's videos are normally pretty good. Maybe it will help.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...php?tubeid=114
    That was the perfect example and explanation -- even with images and metaphors and whatnot. I pretty much immediately knew I was ISFJ when he explained the whole "zooming in" part, because I had /just/ explained that it is what I do when I become interested in a subject .. Thank you so much, to all of you! You've finally brought peace to the subject that had been bothering me since I was about 14.. I finally know my type! ^.^

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