Please help me! (ISFJ or INFJ)

[Coriolis]

Also, I didn't make a "sexist" comment, you may want to look up the meaning of that word before you attempt to use it again. I'm actually talking about the reenforcing aspect society plays on the different negative/positive aspects of MBTI types based on gender, it does the same thing to female IxFJs as it does to male ExTPs. I'm in no way discriminating against an entire gender nor am I saying either is superior though I do think that secondary Fe comes close to qualifying as a disability after seeing some of the conclusions it jumps to.

As a side note, really if you use the word "sexist" you're a sexist as it's a sexist word in that it relates to a mans attitude or thinking towards a woman, sexist!

"Sexist" relates to making assumptions about someone because of their sex, unless it is a matter of biology where one really can generalize. Both women and men can be sexist. Typology lends itself to generalizations, too, but it is likely to tell more about what a person is really like than simple reference to which set of genitalia/chromosomes they have. In my experience, people of different sex but same type are much more similar than those with different type but same sex. So, if we are going to generalize, best to do it using a more informative measure.

Yes, there is an interplay between type and sex, including the degree to which sex/gender stereotypes reinforce or go against type characteristics, but this comes from external pressures, not who we each are inside.

MBTI is functional for some things, for others it is not, for dating it isn't, for determining how smart a person is, again, it isn't helpful. It doesn't work for figuring out if you will feel a connection or chemistry, have good sex, lie, cheat, it doesn't work for determining if you'll be a good couple, do well in school, be a good driver.

It is helpful in understanding what you will enjoy about chemistry, in what circumstances you might lie or cheat, and what you will appreciate or dislike about a potential partner. It says much less about what we do than about why and how we do it.

 

[Samvega]

"Sexist" relates to making assumptions about someone because of their sex, unless it is a matter of biology where one really can generalize.

I got ya, so if I say men are more violent then women, more likely to get in a car accident, are more into sports. Or, that women are better at multitasking, have a higher pain tolerance, are more nurturing or more likely to have body image issues (due to sexist advertising). Those are all sexist statements? I thought sexist was thinking one gender was superior to the other or had more value.

Anyway, I'm a total sexist if so as I believe all of the above statements to be more accurate than odds would dictate based on gender statistics. It also seems women are some of the most sexist people I know (am I sexist for saying that or is that not sexist because it's a personal experience). Hell, look at makeup companies, I never see them advertising makeup for men, they just assume women are going to wear it, sexists!

 

[Coriolis]

I got ya, so if I say men are more violent then women, more likely to get in a car accident, are more into sports. Or, that women are better at multitasking, have a higher pain tolerance, are more nurturing or more likely to have body image issues (due to sexist advertising). Those are all sexist statements? I thought sexist was thinking one gender was superior to the other or had more value.

Anyway, I'm a total sexist if so as I believe all of the above statements to be more accurate than odds would dictate based on gender statistics. It also seems women are some of the most sexist people I know (am I sexist for saying that or is that not sexist because it's a personal experience). Hell, look at makeup companies, I never see them advertising makeup for men, they just assume women are going to wear it, sexists!

Women have been raised for generations to value their appearance, and often to value it more than their intelligence, strength, wisdom, kindness, or other qualities. Cosmetics marketing both takes advantage of this conditioning and reinforces it. Sexism at heart is the assumption that women and men are so different that it is OK to have double standards, even when that flies in the face of reality. Statistics may support generalizations about the sexes with regard to measurable events like violence and car accidents, though much of that, as with cosmetics and sports, may come from conditioning and not the inherent nature of men or women. None of this is a justification for making assumptions about an individual, though. Individuals are not statistics, and sex-based differences often take a back seat to the many other ways in which individuals differ one from another.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

Women have been raised for generations to value their appearance, and often to value it more than their intelligence, strength, wisdom, kindness, or other qualities.

Women from which culture(s)?

 

[Thalassa]

You did take note that I applied the same thinking to ExTP males (of which I am) correct? So, if I'm applying how something impacts a gender and applying it equally to both genders, how is that sexist exactly? Have you looked at the meaning of the word? Would you be willing to quote what I said and a definition of "sexist" so that I can better understand what you're seeing that's sexist?

MBTI is functional for some things, for others it is not, for dating it isn't, for determining how smart a person is, again, it isn't helpful. It doesn't work for figuring out if you will feel a connection or chemistry, have good sex, lie, cheat, it doesn't work for determining if you'll be a good couple, do well in school, be a good driver. It's a good mirror to see areas that may be blind spots, it's useful to better understand how somebody else may see something, how their perspective may differ. I have learned there is little value in knowing I'm an ENTP, in fact, maybe more harm has come of it in the affirmation I once found for the areas I needed to grow. MBTI is great to learn, know, and read about the 15 types you are not.

Anyway, stereotypes will always be, I would type a 28 year old virgin, vegetarian with a cat as an INFP, tell me they ran the 100 meter in under 10 seconds and I would add that they're both a male and black, would that make me both sexist and racist? These are things that just apply more often than not so they're fair to deduce, they don't however always apply and there's a danger in thinking they will.

So 30s slut vegetarian with cats and predilection towards art and ecology is ISFP right? The difference between N and S is sexuality (actually, this is possible, but more likely in comparison of INXJ (Se inferior) v. ISXP (Se aux).... anyway, you didn't make minor distinction like that, you actually said all IXFJ female are insane and that Fe aux in general may be a disability. That's quite a bit different, you surely exaggerated.

 

[Coriolis]

Women from which culture(s)?

Every culture of which I am aware, though standards of beauty will differ.

If you know of cultures where this is not true, please share. The comparison would be interesting and instructive.

 

[Ene]

Women have been raised for generations to value their appearance, and often to value it more than their intelligence, strength, wisdom, kindness, or other qualities. Cosmetics marketing both takes advantage of this conditioning and reinforces it. Sexism at heart is the assumption that women and men are so different that it is OK to have double standards, even when that flies in the face of reality. Statistics may support generalizations about the sexes with regard to measurable events like violence and car accidents, though much of that, as with cosmetics and sports, may come from conditioning and not the inherent nature of men or women. None of this is a justification for making assumptions about an individual, though. Individuals are not statistics, and sex-based differences often take a back seat to the many other ways in which individuals differ one from another.

Excellent post, Coriolis. I was thinking about this very topic earlier today. I agree with your last sentence especially.

 

[Riva]

Women from which culture(s)?

@ the question - Seriously?

 

[chubber]

Well, since you mentioned it, this reminds me of a normal interaction with my ex-wife who was an ISFJ, we had non-stop issues with her not getting my foolish humor and taking everything so personally, arrrggg, seemed exhausting to me. The reality is that type doesn't matter, just be the best you that you can be. If you're a RN or a school teacher, many ISFJs lean in that direction, INFJs tend to have more existential angst and confusion relating to careers.

There is humor in much of this, we're in a forum for a system meant to stereotype but in a way we're accepting of yet if I say something "sexist" that's an issue?

Also, I didn't make a "sexist" comment, you may want to look up the meaning of that word before you attempt to use it again. I'm actually talking about the reenforcing aspect society plays on the different negative/positive aspects of MBTI types based on gender, it does the same thing to female IxFJs as it does to male ExTPs. I'm in no way discriminating against an entire gender nor am I saying either is superior though I do think that secondary Fe comes close to qualifying as a disability after seeing some of the conclusions it jumps to.

As a side note, really if you use the word "sexist" you're a sexist as it's a sexist word in that it relates to a mans attitude or thinking towards a woman, sexist!

I think the bold you are referring to isn't the Aux Fe but rather what [MENTION=13589]Mal12345[/MENTION] explained earlier. The inferior Ne that is negative.

That was a long "spoiler" tag essay.

Introverted Sensing is a feeling-tone that accompanies thoughts and images from the unconscious mind, but which were aroused by concrete events. The thought and/or image is then substituted for the concrete event such that the two are then perceived as equivalent in the mind of the Introverted Sensor. Things that bring up a feeling-tone of fear in the Introverted Sensors mind are to be objectively feared, even if nobody else feels the same way. The Introverted Sensor then subconsciously projects traits upon the object which help "explain" the fear to the conscious mind. The same could be said of the feeling-tone of love or hate.

Introvert Intuition is much the same as Introverted Sensing, only the subconscious content differs in quality. The subconscious of the Introverted Intuitive does not react to objects so much as to concepts and ideas, philosophies and religions. But as with the Introverted Sensor, the feeling-tone that results is of a black-and-white nature: concepts (instead of things) are automatically considered to be worthy of love or hate, fear, and other passions of the soul, even including a vast indifference toward certain ideas. The feelings run deep, and as with the Introverted Sensor the type is accompanied with the idea of being sui generis, one of a kind. But the Ni type is very concerned with the idea of individualism, both personally and on a world-wide scale. And although their ideas are clearly subjective, both types claim to have an objective basis for their beliefs.

 

[Mal12345]

With regard to Ne inferior, as with ANY inferior, it is not "MY" weakness, it is "YOUR" weakness, or problem, or whatever. Even if we do see that we have a problem, we unconsciously send that problem into the external realm. For example, I know that socializing is an issue for me, and that I would be happier if I were able to socialize better; but still, I can't help but think in terms of FUCK SOCIETY.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

Women have been raised for generations to value their appearance, and often to value it more than their intelligence, strength, wisdom, kindness, or other qualities.

This part.
I personally were not raised this way and I see the same for many others.

 

[Coriolis]

This part.
I personally were not raised this way and I see the same for many others.

Are you sure? How did your upbringing compare with that of boys in your family, neighborhood, or culture, on matters of appearance?

No matter, though. The generalization holds true, despite the many individuals who were raised otherwise.

 

[Pionart]

Wut? You trying to confuse her/him?

I personally thought his descriptions were excellent, one of the best I've read. Maybe because it fits with my own ideas. It seems to really get to what the functions are at their most fundamental.

 

[highlander]

I personally thought his descriptions were excellent, one of the best I've read. Maybe because it fits with my own ideas. It seems to really get to what the functions are at their most fundamental.

I don't think the Ni description was good at all. Confusing, convoluted not to mention wrong. The Si one wasn't as bad but still confusing.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

Are you sure? How did your upbringing compare with that of boys in your family, neighborhood, or culture, on matters of appearance?

No matter, though. The generalization holds true, despite the many individuals who were raised otherwise.

You're right, I myself have seen far too many young girls and women who are pretentious, self-serving, superficial and shallow. I have seen far too many men who go after these superficial but pretty looking women.

It's really all a part of the demand and supply curve. If there are more men who think "Okay, so your tits are big and you will look banging from behind, you giggle real cute and you know how to boost my ego with compliments. What ELSE that truly matter do you have?", there will be more women telling themselves, "shit, I gotta spend more time getting some brain and a decent piece of soul". Similarly, if there are more women that take to heart Shania Twain's "That don't impress me much", there will be less men who think being a dick with lots of money and a nice car will get him anything (mostly the female counterparts).

Recently I talked to a friend who admitted that he's been unconsciously trying to go on dates with these gorgeous, interesting but obnoxious ladies because somehow getting their attention makes him feel as if he wins something, as if he's validated, though he doesn't really care for them. Results? These girls know they're hot catches alright, and they hurt his starving ego by letting him down easy, though he's quite a lad. And you know what, he's bitter, saying "people are assholes". C'mon, it's the exact demographic you've sadly chosen to sink your teeth into. Sometimes it's just you who want to be abused.

What can I say other than that generalization is disheartening for every single wonderful woman or man out there whose goodness is ignored and discredited because of the ordinary assholes. When there are more shit than gold around you, go look hard for the gold that is left, not sitting with face in palms saying "generally there are only different kinds of shit regardless of the fact there are still gold out there". Sort of, not a very fancy analogy, but.

 

[Coriolis]

You're right, I myself have seen far too many young girls and women who are pretentious, self-serving, superficial and shallow. I have seen far too many men who go after these superficial but pretty looking women.

Exactly. It takes two to tango. This is why I place (almost) as much blame on women as men for the overemphasis on physical appearance as well as other forms of gender bias.