Need help determining my instinctual variant; also, tritype

[Doctor Cringelord]

Instinctual variant is that one aspect of the enneagram where my knowledge is the weakest.

I tentatively put Sp in my profile because I am the type of person with a good eye for potential dangers where others see no danger. Despite being a fairly impulsive risk-taker, I constantly evaluate a new situation (consciously, unconsciously, or both), scanning and analyzing every apparent variable and determining safety/danger. I won't necessarily back down from potential dangers, both physical and social, but I will always keep my eyes open, metaphorically speaking. But maybe that's actually Ne and I'm an NP in SP clothing.

I am 95% certain I am a 9w8, but everything beyond that is a mystery.

The more I read about 7, the more I identify with that type over 6 and 5, despite the fact that 7 is said to correlate mostly with extraverted MBTI types. However I think there are a great deal of misconceptions surrounding the 7 type--the philosophical party animal, for instance--although that summed me up from my late teens to my mid twenties.

I think having an 8 wing for both 7 and 9 might explain where some of my more aggressive, dominating tendencies might come from. That seems to be one of the supposed contradictions about me in general: the passive, easy-going diplomat who occasionally becomes quite confrontational and will take charge of a group in a heartbeat if he sees no one else rising to that challenge. I probably resemble a meek, phlegmatic type more than I'd like, but at times I am anything but that.

However, I've been wrong before.

(Self-analysis seems to be an endless cycle around this forum.)

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Ene]

I wish I could be of more help, but I'm sort of weak on tri type stuff, meaning that I haven't studied it and know very little about it. I do know that when I tested, I tested as a 9w8 with 5w4 being my next highest type and then I think it was a 3, but I can't remember for sure.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I wish I could be of more help, but I'm sort of weak on tri type stuff, meaning that I haven't studied it and know very little about it. I do know that when I tested, I tested as a 9w8 with 5w4 being my next highest type and then I think it was a 3, but I can't remember for sure.

Could be. I think a lot of INFJs have 9 and 5 in their tritypes.

 

[EJCC]

Introverts with 7 fixes aren't unheard of at all -- I believe [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] is one, though I could be imagining that. So if you identify most with 9w8/7w8/XwX then that seems fair to me. I'd thought you seemed more 5-ish, than 7-ish, but some of that could be you being ISTP, and IxTP being so heavily associated with 5.

As for your heart fix, I'd definitely lean towards 3, over 2 or 4. Not sure about instinctual variants.

 

[The Great One]

Instinctual variant is that one aspect of the enneagram where my knowledge is the weakest.

I tentatively put Sp in my profile because I am the type of person with a good eye for potential dangers where others see no danger. Despite being a fairly impulsive risk-taker, I constantly evaluate a new situation (consciously, unconsciously, or both), scanning and analyzing every apparent variable and determining safety/danger. I won't necessarily back down from potential dangers, both physical and social, but I will always keep my eyes open, metaphorically speaking. But maybe that's actually Ne and I'm an NP in SP clothing.

I am 95% certain I am a 9w8, but everything beyond that is a mystery.

The more I read about 7, the more I identify with that type over 6 and 5, despite the fact that 7 is said to correlate mostly with extraverted MBTI types. However I think there are a great deal of misconceptions surrounding the 7 type--the philosophical party animal, for instance--although that summed me up from my late teens to my mid twenties.

I think having an 8 wing for both 7 and 9 might explain where some of my more aggressive, dominating tendencies might come from. That seems to be one of the supposed contradictions about me in general: the passive, easy-going diplomat who occasionally becomes quite confrontational and will take charge of a group in a heartbeat if he sees no one else rising to that challenge. I probably resemble a meek, phlegmatic type more than I'd like, but at times I am anything but that.

However, I've been wrong before.

(Self-analysis seems to be an endless cycle around this forum.)

Thoughts, anyone?

Ok man, I'm gonna come out and say it; I think you are mistyped 6w7 whom is sexual/self-preservation with social last. You fit the description to a T. After, all you talk about how you are always afraid and always scanning the environment for potential dangers, and this is self-preservation 6 as hell. The self-preservation 9 almost doesn't look like a self-preservation type at all. Self-preservation 9's are really chill. In fact, if you want me to paint a picture of the classic self-preservation 9, think of like the stoner guy on his couch eating Cheetos. Self preservation 9's are very calm, cool, and collect and tend to really not worry very much. To tell the truth, you really don't seem like a self-preservation 9 at all.

On the contrary, you do seem like a classic sexual 6 with strong self-preservation secondary instinct. You tend to be very contradictory like a sx/sp 6; the sx/sp 6 tends to be naturally aggressive and that is how the sexual variant manifests itself in the 6. Sexual 6's tend to be very controlling, confrontational, dominant, and can often times want to be the guy that takes charge. However, you seem to have strong secondary self-preservation as well. The self-preservation 6's tend to have a defense mechanism of acting warm, friendly, and diplomatic towards others. So therefore, this creates an extremely conflicted type.

Also, I think that the reason that you relate to 7 so much is because you are a 6w7 with a strong 7 wing. In addition, the sexual 6's often times tend to be much more worldly and hedonistic like 7's.

Introverts with 7 fixes aren't unheard of at all -- I believe [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] is one, though I could be imagining that. So if you identify most with 9w8/7w8/XwX then that seems fair to me. I'd thought you seemed more 5-ish, than 7-ish, but some of that could be you being ISTP, and IxTP being so heavily associated with 5.

As for your heart fix, I'd definitely lean towards 3, over 2 or 4. Not sure about instinctual variants.

Istp's with 7 fixes and that are core 7's aren't really that rare. 7's want to constantly experience new things, which is very congruent with his auxiliary function of Se.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Self-pres/Sexual

This subtype is self-effacing also, but is generally more assertive. They may be the subtype of Nine which is most aware of the boundaries between themselves and others and at the same time, possibly the most frustrated when those boundaries are violated. They can be aware of being walked over and they might even be aware of the anger it causes, but they become frustrated with their seeming inability to control this pattern. This is true, to some degree, of all Nines, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, there seems to be a complex and interesting balance between the withdrawing energy caused by the dominant self-pres instinct and the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. This combination seems to raise consciousness of this dynamic.

Getting healthy for this subtype, and for all Nines, involves becoming aware of this dynamic and realizing they do have the power to control their boundaries. Part of this must come from the realization on the part of the Nine that they have invited this overstepping of their boundaries from others by not defining them.
Close relationships will usually work or not for this subtype depending on how well they deal with this issue.

Sexual/Self-pres

The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion – they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.

Sexual/Social

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and “zoning out” tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct’s pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

The central conflict for these Nines will still be in the realm of close intimate relationships and these Nines will have many of the same issues and challenges as the sexual/self-pres Nines.

1.(Personally, I agree with your current instinctual variant stacking from what I remember. Your energy seems largely insulated. This is the one I agree with.)
2.(Perhaps the self perceived adventurous 7-ish flavor, is actually a product of this stacking.)
3.(As for the last, if I recall correctly, you once typed as a 5, yes? Which integrates towards 8...this one seems the least likely imo, as I said, insulated. But I thought I'd throw it in regardless.)

Just thought I'd drop those here for your consideration. Options are always nice.

Anyway, contrary to disgusting stereotypes popular belief I see sp 9's as the most 6-ish 9's not at all exempt from mistyping as such(I do remember a certain someone doing that...). We're more nervous and wary(honestly, most sp firsts would be 6's if that alone constituted an e6) than the other 9 subtypes and only 2nd to the sx dom 9's, who give off a very 3 flavor due to a strong link to 3, as one of the least 9-like 9's. Succinctly, sp instinct begets a stronger link to 6 in 9's.

When most think 9, I feel they erroneously elect to represent the entirety of 9 via social 9's or even sp/so 9's(who can look like p6's) to an extent. Couple this with some of the odder, highly unrepresentative stereotypes of sp doms as lackadaisical materialists, and thus the sp 9 "stoner"(Pfft, hardly.) is born. I never do grow tired of hearing that.

As for your type, I never really did interact with you too much, but from what I witnessed, 9w8 seems correct for your core, as does the heart fix you currently display and I could perhaps see 6w5 as your head fix. Though 5w6 appears viable as well. I can't see 7 being as probable as either of those however.

In regards to the instinctual variants, I prefer to treat them and the core type as a unit. If you're interested in that sort of take this is where I pulled the 3 descriptions above from: Nine Stacks | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

 

[Evee]

Also, I think that the reason that you relate to 7 so much is because you are a 6w7 with a strong 7 wing. In addition, the sexual 6's often times tend to be much more worldly and hedonistic like 7's.

I suggested that as his core as well.

 

[The Great One]

I suggested that as his core as well.

This guy isn't a 7, that's for sure.

 

[The Great One]

Self-pres/Sexual

This subtype is self-effacing also, but is generally more assertive. They may be the subtype of Nine which is most aware of the boundaries between themselves and others and at the same time, possibly the most frustrated when those boundaries are violated. They can be aware of being walked over and they might even be aware of the anger it causes, but they become frustrated with their seeming inability to control this pattern. This is true, to some degree, of all Nines, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, there seems to be a complex and interesting balance between the withdrawing energy caused by the dominant self-pres instinct and the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. This combination seems to raise consciousness of this dynamic.

Getting healthy for this subtype, and for all Nines, involves becoming aware of this dynamic and realizing they do have the power to control their boundaries. Part of this must come from the realization on the part of the Nine that they have invited this overstepping of their boundaries from others by not defining them.
Close relationships will usually work or not for this subtype depending on how well they deal with this issue.

Sexual/Self-pres

The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion – they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.

Sexual/Social

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and “zoning out” tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct’s pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

The central conflict for these Nines will still be in the realm of close intimate relationships and these Nines will have many of the same issues and challenges as the sexual/self-pres Nines.

1.(Personally, I agree with your current instinctual variant stacking from what I remember. Your energy seems largely insulated. This is the one I agree with.)
2.(Perhaps the self perceived adventurous 7-ish flavor, is actually a product of this stacking.)
3.(As for the last, if I recall correctly, you once typed as a 5, yes? Which integrates towards 8...this one seems the least likely imo, as I said, insulated. But I thought I'd throw it in regardless.)

Just thought I'd drop those here for your consideration. Options are always nice.

Anyway, contrary to disgusting stereotypes popular belief I see sp 9's as the most 6-ish 9's not at all exempt from mistyping as such(I do remember a certain someone doing that...). We're more nervous and wary(honestly, most sp firsts would be 6's if that alone constituted an e6) than the other 9 subtypes and only 2nd to the sx dom 9's, who give off a very 3 flavor due to a strong link to 3, as one of the least 9-like 9's. Succinctly, sp instinct begets a stronger link to 6 in 9's.

When most think 9, I feel they erroneously elect to represent the entirety of 9 via social 9's or even sp/so 9's(who can look like p6's) to an extent. Couple this with some of the odder, highly unrepresentative stereotypes of sp doms as lackadaisical materialists, and thus the sp 9 "stoner"(Pfft, hardly.) is born. I never do grow tired of hearing that.

As for your type, I never really did interact with you too much, but from what I witnessed, 9w8 seems correct for your core, as does the heart fix you currently display and I could perhaps see 6w5 as your head fix. Though 5w6 appears viable as well. I can't see 7 being as probable as either of those however.

In regards to the instinctual variants, I prefer to treat them and the core type as a unit. If you're interested in that sort of take this is where I pulled the 3 descriptions above from: Nine Stacks | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

That website's description of a 9 sounded more like a self-preservation 6 to me.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Introverts with 7 fixes aren't unheard of at all -- I believe [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] is one, though I could be imagining that. So if you identify most with 9w8/7w8/XwX then that seems fair to me. I'd thought you seemed more 5-ish, than 7-ish, but some of that could be you being ISTP, and IxTP being so heavily associated with 5.

As for your heart fix, I'd definitely lean towards 3, over 2 or 4. Not sure about instinctual variants.

I've never ruled out 5 completely, but I arbitrarily typed myself as a 5 before I had a strong working knowledge of enneagram theory. This was around the same time I was mistyping as INFJ and INTP, incidentally.

Ok man, I'm gonna come out and say it; I think you are mistyped 6w7 whom is sexual/self-preservation with social last. You fit the description to a T. After, all you talk about how you are always afraid and always scanning the environment for potential dangers, and this is self-preservation 6 as hell. The self-preservation 9 almost doesn't look like a self-preservation type at all. Self-preservation 9's are really chill. In fact, if you want me to paint a picture of the classic self-preservation 9, think of like the stoner guy on his couch eating Cheetos. Self preservation 9's are very calm, cool, and collect and tend to really not worry very much. To tell the truth, you really don't seem like a self-preservation 9 at all.

On the contrary, you do seem like a classic sexual 6 with strong self-preservation secondary instinct. You tend to be very contradictory like a sx/sp 6; the sx/sp 6 tends to be naturally aggressive and that is how the sexual variant manifests itself in the 6. Sexual 6's tend to be very controlling, confrontational, dominant, and can often times want to be the guy that takes charge. However, you seem to have strong secondary self-preservation as well. The self-preservation 6's tend to have a defense mechanism of acting warm, friendly, and diplomatic towards others. So therefore, this creates an extremely conflicted type.

Also, I think that the reason that you relate to 7 so much is because you are a 6w7 with a strong 7 wing. In addition, the sexual 6's often times tend to be much more worldly and hedonistic like 7's.



Istp's with 7 fixes and that are core 7's aren't really that rare. 7's want to constantly experience new things, which is very congruent with his auxiliary function of Se.

Outwardly, most people who know me see a somewhat lackadaisical, laid back dude who tends to go with the flow more often than not. I never said I was afraid, I just tend to be a lot more aware of my surrounding environment than people realize. For instance, I can be in conversation with someone and appear detached, yet repeat everything back to the other person. This happens a lot with my wife--she'll yell at me for not listening, but then I'll repeat what she just said. "Oh...well you didn't look like you were paying attention"

I'm not saying you're wrong and I do appreciate your analysis, btw.

Another thing--if and when I act warm and diplomatic toward people, its not defensively. That's always been my natural way of interacting with people, although there is a slightly cold, calculated side to me that also shows often--I am a walking contradiction in that regard.

I also wouldn't say aggression comes naturally to me. I can be forceful and persuasive when I need to, but usually aggression, whether physical or verbal, is not my primary approach to people and the world around me. Take charge? Yes, as I said earlier, I can and will, but usually only when no one else has stepped up to lead. I'd still much rather say in the background doing my own thing.

I don't think 6 is my core, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Self-pres/Sexual

This subtype is self-effacing also, but is generally more assertive. They may be the subtype of Nine which is most aware of the boundaries between themselves and others and at the same time, possibly the most frustrated when those boundaries are violated. They can be aware of being walked over and they might even be aware of the anger it causes, but they become frustrated with their seeming inability to control this pattern. This is true, to some degree, of all Nines, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, there seems to be a complex and interesting balance between the withdrawing energy caused by the dominant self-pres instinct and the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. This combination seems to raise consciousness of this dynamic.

Getting healthy for this subtype, and for all Nines, involves becoming aware of this dynamic and realizing they do have the power to control their boundaries. Part of this must come from the realization on the part of the Nine that they have invited this overstepping of their boundaries from others by not defining them.
Close relationships will usually work or not for this subtype depending on how well they deal with this issue.

Sexual/Self-pres

The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion – they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.

Sexual/Social

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and “zoning out” tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct’s pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

The central conflict for these Nines will still be in the realm of close intimate relationships and these Nines will have many of the same issues and challenges as the sexual/self-pres Nines.

1.(Personally, I agree with your current instinctual variant stacking from what I remember. Your energy seems largely insulated. This is the one I agree with.)
2.(Perhaps the self perceived adventurous 7-ish flavor, is actually a product of this stacking.)
3.(As for the last, if I recall correctly, you once typed as a 5, yes? Which integrates towards 8...this one seems the least likely imo, as I said, insulated. But I thought I'd throw it in regardless.)

Just thought I'd drop those here for your consideration. Options are always nice.

Anyway, contrary to disgusting stereotypes popular belief I see sp 9's as the most 6-ish 9's not at all exempt from mistyping as such(I do remember a certain someone doing that...). We're more nervous and wary(honestly, most sp firsts would be 6's if that alone constituted an e6) than the other 9 subtypes and only 2nd to the sx dom 9's, who give off a very 3 flavor due to a strong link to 3, as one of the least 9-like 9's. Succinctly, sp instinct begets a stronger link to 6 in 9's.

When most think 9, I feel they erroneously elect to represent the entirety of 9 via social 9's or even sp/so 9's(who can look like p6's) to an extent. Couple this with some of the odder, highly unrepresentative stereotypes of sp doms as lackadaisical materialists, and thus the sp 9 "stoner"(Pfft, hardly.) is born. I never do grow tired of hearing that.

As for your type, I never really did interact with you too much, but from what I witnessed, 9w8 seems correct for your core, as does the heart fix you currently display and I could perhaps see 6w5 as your head fix. Though 5w6 appears viable as well. I can't see 7 being as probable as either of those however.

In regards to the instinctual variants, I prefer to treat them and the core type as a unit. If you're interested in that sort of take this is where I pulled the 3 descriptions above from: Nine Stacks | The Enneagram ...info from the underground.

Everything I bolded in that quote almost perfectly describes me.

Thank you for the link.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Another thing about me:

I will avoid decision making and leave it to others (most of the time), but when I do make up my mind on a course of action, I can be very forceful and persuasive in getting others to agree, not backing down easily.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

That website's description of a 9 sounded more like a self-preservation 6 to me.

Yes...that's more or less quite literally the point (should anyone be so insistent on having one). I pointed the like out in my original post.

I do wonder what definition of "sp 6" you're working off of as judging by that portrayal of a "typical sp 9"...well, to be accurate it would make me wonder, but based off that I've a feeling I already know the answer.

 

[HongDou]

I think 9w8 sp/sx sounds good from what I've seen. And the 973 tritype sounds like you too. From my experience, people with heart fixes that are hard to determine most often end up being 3-fixed. I think it's because 3s don't like to discuss their vulnerabilities and would rather emphasize their strengths, while 2s and 4s wear their heart on their sleeve more.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think 9w8 sp/sx sounds good from what I've seen. And the 973 tritype sounds like you too. From my experience, people with heart fixes that are hard to determine most often end up being 3-fixed. I think it's because 3s don't like to discuss their vulnerabilities and would rather emphasize their strengths, while 2s and 4s wear their heart on their sleeve more.

Yes. I never really could identify with 4s and 2s, even when I briefly mistyped as 4w5.

 

[EJCC]

I think 9w8 sp/sx sounds good from what I've seen. And the 973 tritype sounds like you too. From my experience, people with heart fixes that are hard to determine most often end up being 3-fixed. I think it's because 3s don't like to discuss their vulnerabilities and would rather emphasize their strengths, while 2s and 4s wear their heart on their sleeve more.

Hadn't noticed this, but you're totally right. I think that's why I'm a 3 fix as well.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Hadn't noticed this, but you're totally right. I think that's why I'm a 3 fix as well.

Would you say there is a strong correlation between 3 and ESTJ?

I've seen a lot of that in my father--the confidant ESTJ who will talk your head off about his strong qualities and achievements but quickly change the subject or even become defensive if someone points out any weaknesses or faults.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he were a 3w4....4 wing because he definitely has an artsy, independent side somewhat contradictory to popular, often false notions of ESTJs as unoriginal conformists...

 

[HongDou]

Hadn't noticed this, but you're totally right. I think that's why I'm a 3 fix as well.

Would you say there is a strong correlation between 3 and ESTJ?

I've seen a lot of that in my father--the confidant ESTJ who will talk your head off about his strong qualities and achievements but quickly change the subject or even become defensive if someone points out any weaknesses or faults.

I think a lot of ESTJs can be core 3s or 3-fixed. But I think a lot of ESTJs (especially women) can be 2-fixed as well. One of my best friends is an ESTJ 8w7 and she's most likely 827 and has a very strong connection to 2. A lot of women at least in western culture are socialized as children into learning the importance of being loved so I wouldn't be surprised how much it would stick with an ESxJ.

IMO 3 you can expect most often in IxTx tritypes (like you could most often expect 2 in an ExFx tritype). I could see a few 4 fixes (especially in INTs) or the rare 2 (probably more in ISTs), but I think for the most part the whole suppression of feeling and desire for competency fits nicely with IxTx types. I used to know an INTJ 6w5 sx/so who was 4-fixed and he was probably one of the most emotionally unstable people I've ever met, but otherwise any IxTx types I know tend to see 2 and 4 concerns as arbitrary while they firmly believe that appearing impressive can be very important to get by in life. My ISTJ 5w6 dad is 3-fixed and I can get that lecture from him sometimes too.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think a lot of ESTJs can be core 3s or 3-fixed. But I think a lot of ESTJs (especially women) can be 2-fixed as well. One of my best friends is an ESTJ 8w7 and she's most likely 827 and has a very strong connection to 2. A lot of women at least in western culture are socialized as children into learning the importance of being loved so I wouldn't be surprised how much it would stick with an ESxJ.

IMO 3 you can expect most often in IxTx tritypes (like you could most often expect 2 in an ExFx tritype). I could see a few 4 fixes (especially in INTs) or the rare 2 (probably more in ISTs), but I think for the most part the whole suppression of feeling and desire for competency fits nicely with IxTx types. I used to know an INTJ 6w5 sx/so who was 4-fixed and he was probably one of the most emotionally unstable people I've ever met, but otherwise any IxTx types I know tend to see 2 and 4 concerns as arbitrary while they firmly believe that appearing impressive can be very important to get by in life. My ISTJ 5w6 dad is 3-fixed and I can get that lecture from him sometimes too.

Yes, especially bolded part. Call me shallow or whatever term you want to use, but I don't like talking about feely shit and I especially don't like it if I am perceived as incompetent or overly dependent on others' help

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=19700]Starcrash[/MENTION]

Outwardly, most people who know me see a somewhat lackadaisical, laid back dude who tends to go with the flow more often than not. I never said I was afraid, I just tend to be a lot more aware of my surrounding environment than people realize. For instance, I can be in conversation with someone and appear detached, yet repeat everything back to the other person. This happens a lot with my wife--she'll yell at me for not listening, but then I'll repeat what she just said. "Oh...well you didn't look like you were paying attention"

I'm not saying you're wrong and I do appreciate your analysis, btw.

Another thing--if and when I act warm and diplomatic toward people, its not defensively. That's always been my natural way of interacting with people, although there is a slightly cold, calculated side to me that also shows often--I am a walking contradiction in that regard.

I also wouldn't say aggression comes naturally to me. I can be forceful and persuasive when I need to, but usually aggression, whether physical or verbal, is not my primary approach to people and the world around me. Take charge? Yes, as I said earlier, I can and will, but usually only when no one else has stepped up to lead. I'd still much rather say in the background doing my own thing.

I don't think 6 is my core, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Then I misunderstood you then.

 

[The Great One]

Another thing about me:

I will avoid decision making and leave it to others (most of the time), but when I do make up my mind on a course of action, I can be very forceful and persuasive in getting others to agree, not backing down easily.

Another classic 6 move. Sp 6's don't trust themselves to make important decisions many times.

Yes...that's more or less quite literally the point (should anyone be so insistent on having one). I pointed the like out in my original post.

I do wonder what definition of "sp 6" you're working off of as judging by that portrayal of a "typical sp 9"...well, to be accurate it would make me wonder, but based off that I've a feeling I already know the answer.

I'm working off of Naranjo's definition of type 6, who is one of the most respected enneagram authors out there.