Second Attempt

[Lain]

The responder is foul-mouthed as all "fuck."

Lol

And he has confused tertiary Ti with something Te-ish about your post. Fe is also structured and ordered, while Ti is internally structured and ordered. You have merely reflected your Ti internal structuring in your post.

Ah okay

 

[Mal12345]

But since that Reddit post about INTJ I'm really confused.

"But internally they are very independent."

Ah, okay.

Yes. For example, an INFJ may pursue a career in art in an effort to create something never seen before, but which comes from someplace deep inside them that they want other people to understand. In doing so, the INFJ's art may fly in the face of all art tradition, so this makes them seem like the independent artist type. The problem is, how is the INFJ going to obtain financial independence while bucking tradition?

 

[Lain]

Yes. For example, an INFJ may pursue a career in art in an effort to create something never seen before, but which comes from someplace deep inside them that they want other people to understand. In doing so, the INFJ's art may fly in the face of all art tradition, so this makes them seem like the independent artist type. The problem is, how is the INFJ going to obtain financial independence while bucking tradition?

Want to be an author, and I have no idea either.

 

[Mal12345]

Want to be an author, and I have no idea either.

Do some mundane work to support yourself.

 

[Lain]

Do some mundane work to support yourself.

Yeah that is the plan. Going for a degree starting next term.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

To OP: age and mental health indeed influence your answers tremendously. Your answers if accompanied by the background stories of what have made you who you are today, and how you were before all this might help. That is only if you're willing to share that much.

I still have questions about some of your responses, such as, "In what areas of your life would you like help? Confidence, independence, socialization, and how to properly complete mundane tasks." This sounds more INFP to me, simply because lacking things like confidence an independence is more of an INFP quality, while INFJs aren't lacking in independence.

That is one dead wrong stereotype of INFPs. I know some somewhat "unhealthy" (hurt/suffer from depression/take medication) and, still, there's one thing nobody can take away from us - independence. We are extremely independent in the way we think and how we choose to deal with something. We work great alone but know how to support others in a team. We don't ask for help or advice, and we strive for physical independence too (move out early as a youngster/crave traveling).

We don't walk around as if we're not confident either. In fact, we're very very good at acting like we are.
If one is INFP e4, confidence is something we can put on like a costume because that's what it takes to be a part of all this, but of course we're constantly aware of our defects. For INFPs, having money, looking beautiful, having cool friends, living in a nice house, etc. do NOT necessarily bring us the "confidence" deep down inside, but definitely the social standard confidence on the outside. For most, being accepted by your society gives you confidence. For us, only until we can fully accept ourselves that we can say we're happy with ourselves.
But INFP e4 hate alpha type, confident, ego-stroking hungry folks anyway

 

[Mal12345]

To OP: age and mental health indeed influence your answers tremendously. Your answers if accompanied by the background stories of what have made you who you are today, and how you were before all this might help. That is only if you're willing to share that much.



That is one dead wrong stereotype of INFPs. I know some somewhat "unhealthy" (hurt/suffer from depression/take medication) and, still, there's one thing nobody can take away from us - independence. We are extremely independent in the way we think and how we choose to deal with something. We work great alone but know how to support others in a team. We don't ask for help or advice, and we strive for physical independence too (move out early as a youngster/crave traveling).

We don't walk around as if we're not confident either. In fact, we're very very good at acting like we are.
If one is INFP e4, confidence is something we can put on like a costume because that's what it takes to be a part of all this, but of course we're constantly aware of our defects. For INFPs, having money, looking beautiful, having cool friends, living in a nice house, etc. do NOT necessarily bring us the "confidence" deep down inside, but definitely the social standard confidence on the outside. For most, being accepted by your society gives you confidence. For us, only until we can fully accept ourselves that we can say we're happy with ourselves.
But INFP e4 hate alpha type, confident, ego-stroking hungry folks anyway

If something I stated was a stereotype, that means it must have been stated by others often enough that it became a stereotype. But I for one haven't read anything about it before I stated it here.

I'll restate my point to you using THE most accurately descriptive term possible. Ni-dominant is an individualistic type. Ni-doms are individualists.

As such, Ni-doms hold to the principles of individualism in their own lives as well as globally. That doesn't mean that Ni-doms are necessarily independent and self-reliant, just that they believe strongly in such for themselves and others. In this, Ni-doms will resist efforts by others to control them and their lives, giving the appearance of independence even if it doesn't in fact exist in their lives. The Ni-dom believes, and that's all that matters. So, while seeming somewhat out of touch with reality around them, the Ni-dom has faith (but not of the organized religious kind), and this is sustained by what the future holds in their idealistic view of that future.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

If something I stated was a stereotype, that means it must have been stated by others often enough that it became a stereotype. But I for one haven't read anything about it before I stated it here.

I'll restate my point to you using THE most accurately descriptive term possible. Ni-dominant is an individualistic type. Ni-doms are individualists.

As such, Ni-doms hold to the principles of individualism in their own lives as well as globally. That doesn't mean that Ni-doms are necessarily independent and self-reliant, just that they believe strongly in such for themselves and others. In this, Ni-doms will resist efforts by others to control them and their lives, giving the appearance of independence even if it doesn't in fact exist in their lives. The Ni-dom believes, and that's all that matters. So, while seeming somewhat out of touch with reality around them, the Ni-dom has faith (but not of the organized religious kind), and this is sustained by what the future holds in their idealistic view of that future.

Why are we analysing Ni-dom in a conversation about INFP?

 

[Mal12345]

Why are we analysing Ni-dom in a conversation about INFP?

I'm thinking ahead.

 

[Lain]

People, people please. There is plenty of Lain to go around. No need to fight over me.

 

[Mal12345]

People, people please. There is plenty of Lain to go around. No need to fight over me.

It's not an INFP thread anyway. If you're an iNFJ, then it's an INFJ thread.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

We're not fighting [MENTION=22175]Lain[/MENTION]. I just spot some description of my own type that doesn't fit with my own experience and my observation of other INFPs and I thought I deserve to justify.
What you could probably get from this is that it is extremely hard to type somebody. With personality still settling and troubles in life, it's even harder. Don't try to put yourself in a box. A type should be your inner home that at some point you just comfortably belong to.

 

[Mal12345]

To OP: age and mental health indeed influence your answers tremendously. Your answers if accompanied by the background stories of what have made you who you are today, and how you were before all this might help. That is only if you're willing to share that much.



That is one dead wrong stereotype of INFPs. I know some somewhat "unhealthy" (hurt/suffer from depression/take medication) and, still, there's one thing nobody can take away from us - independence. We are extremely independent in the way we think and how we choose to deal with something. We work great alone but know how to support others in a team. We don't ask for help or advice, and we strive for physical independence too (move out early as a youngster/crave traveling).

We don't walk around as if we're not confident either. In fact, we're very very good at acting like we are.
If one is INFP e4, confidence is something we can put on like a costume because that's what it takes to be a part of all this, but of course we're constantly aware of our defects. For INFPs, having money, looking beautiful, having cool friends, living in a nice house, etc. do NOT necessarily bring us the "confidence" deep down inside, but definitely the social standard confidence on the outside. For most, being accepted by your society gives you confidence. For us, only until we can fully accept ourselves that we can say we're happy with ourselves.
But INFP e4 hate alpha type, confident, ego-stroking hungry folks anyway

As for this, you're describing all INFPs as if you've met all INFPs.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

If I have example of 4 mature INFPs that don't fit a description, I can say that description isn't precise. At least that description may not help spot an INFP.

The way you picked a theoretical description of INFP and argue that it is right sounds like you've met all INFPs too.

It is good to know the theory, but always leave room for errors.

 

[Mal12345]

If I have example of 4 mature INFPs that don't fit a description, I can say that description isn't precise. At least that description may not help spot an INFP.

The way you picked a theoretical description of INFP and argue that it is right sounds like you've met all INFPs too.

It is good to know the theory, but always leave room for errors.

That's another thread. But INFP is not a person, it's a type. I have never seen INFP in reality, have you? That's because Fi is a pure function, not a person. I'm also betting you've never seen pure red in reality, or a perfect square or circle.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

That's another thread. But INFP is not a person, it's a type. I have never seen INFP in reality, have you? That's because Fi is a pure function, not a person. I'm also betting you've never seen pure red in reality, or a perfect square or circle.

We've been trying to describe what an INFx would be like. And so there are descriptions that doesn't reflect personality of many INFPs, hence those descriptions need to be reconsidered.

You quoted something about INFP that I found utterly unfamiliar, taking into consideration that I am one and I know some other. That is all I've been trying to say. Period.

And yeah, the pure red, perfect square or circle thing, graphic designers can tell you they know one when they see one.

 

[Mal12345]

We've been trying to describe what an INFx would be like. And so there are descriptions that doesn't reflect personality of many INFPs, hence those descriptions need to be reconsidered. Period.

You quoted something about INFP that I found utterly unfamiliar, taking into consideration that I am one and I know some other. That is all I've been trying to say. Period.

And yeah, the pure red, perfect square or circle thing, graphic designers can tell you they know one when they see one.

Here is one of 3,000,000 pages that exist on this subject.
Do perfect circles exist in our universe? | Stuff to Blow Your Mind

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

Here is one of 3,000,000 pages that exist on this subject.
Do perfect circles exist in our universe? | Stuff to Blow Your Mind

"Perfect" is a relative term. Nothing is perfect that is right, just perfect enough for the purpose that something serves.

I get it, you might be a purist.
But that square circle talk is absolutely irrelevant to what I've been trying to say here. Types are forms not contents. Every INFP or INFJ or any other type is different but the same among themselves. Why, because there are other factors, such as age, upbringing, psychological health, culture, living condition, etc. I've met absolutely INFP-like INFJs, and extremely INFJ-like INFPs, or INFJ-like ESFJs, or ISTJ-like INFPs, or ENFJ-like INFPs, simply because many of their behaviors fit the descriptions of the types they seem like. But it takes a lot more to see their core, definitely not by answering a few questions or look at them through type-related description lense.

 

[Mal12345]

"Perfect" is a relative term. Nothing is perfect that is right, just perfect enough for the purpose that something serves.

I get it, you might be a purist.

I'm not any "ist." Concepts are pure ideas or forms. I'm talking about the concept of INFP. My personality inventory, which I developed by the way, has revealed that there is no pure type in reality. Surprised? I'm not. My point was to prove exactly what you're trying to tell me.

However, the fact that reality does not provide us with a pure and perfect example of type does not prevent me from talking about pure and perfect types, conceptually speaking. Mathematicians talk about pure forms of things all the time. But that doesn't make a mathematician a purist or "a" anything beyond mathematician. On the other hand, some of the things you've stated indicate that you are a relativist. For example, the first sentence of your post.

But that square circle talk is absolutely irrelevant to what I've been trying to say here. Types are forms not contents. Every INFP or INFJ or any other type is different but the same among themselves. Why, because there are other factors, such as age, upbringing, psychological health, culture, etc. I've met absolutely INFP-like INFJs, and extremely INFJ-like INFPs, or INFJ-like ESFJs, or ISTJ-like INFPs, or ENFJ-like INFPs, simply because their many of their behaviors fit the descriptions of the types they seem like. But it takes a lot more to see their core, definitely not by answering a few questions or look at them through type-related description lense.

In psychology, having a predominance of traits from a standardized test determine type, or illness, or whatever. If you go to a doctor with symptoms, those symptoms determine your illness [edit - this should say "diagnosis" not "illness"]. If your doctor wants to find out if you may be depressed, he or she will ask you about 6 questions. You don't have to say 'yes' to all 6 questions to indicate depression. In the same vein, you don't have to score 100% on a certain scale in a typology test to be that type. You just have to have a predominance of the traits from that type.

For example, a friend of mine who is aware of the MBTI asked me why he feels like he might be an ENFP. I gave him my inventory to take, and his top scores, at least 10 points above the rest, were ENTP and INFP, ENTP being slightly higher than INFP.

Many people on this forum have taken this test to finally end their confusion over their type. Most of them expected to have a single high score, but this is a rare result. The reason they were so confused was that their various personality traits matched those from many types. So while my inventory may not always tell people "The Truth" about their MBTI type, it will show them the source of their confusion. And that is, people are mixtures of many different types, usually with one of them predominating over the others.

 

[Lain]

A couple more posts from Reddit:

You might be right. I was Seeing Fe based on being a people pleaser, but the answers were stated in a very Te way.

And also, if Ni is dominant, Se is inferior, not Si. Basically I went with the inferior function to figure out whether P or J was the first function.

I got strong Ni, and so I figured it was either the auxilary or the dominant. And since the S was obviously repressed or neglected, I figured it would probably be Se inferior.

I think the INT is pretty clear, but this

"I like surreal works. I'm not very attached to reality, yet I do live in it."

INTP. Full stop. We are never attached to reality like INTJs are.

Am I missing something?