• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Need a bit of help (re)typing myself

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
Most online tests type me as an INTJ and, for a couple years, I thought I was one. Sure, my J/P preference was very slight, but I did recognize myself in INTJ descriptions. And I still do. That's mostly because I am driven and ambitious (but I later realised I focus them internally) and let's just say I can give the INTJ vibe (just as their famous stare of death), and people have noticed that. I honestly don't know what arguments to give in favour of being an INTJ at this point, other than testing as one, which is, more often than not, worthless.

However, as of late, I got more doubtful. The problem with INTJ was mostly its cognitive functions. Reasons why I'm probably an INTP:

- I procrastinate. I am driven, as I said, but I often ask myself what the point of doing it (whatever "it" is) would be and I fall back in my nihilistic pit (it could be blamed on my self-diagnosed depression, though)
- I love analysing things, entertaining multiple possibilities/trying to find multiple interpretations (Ne?), being a little philosopher
- I feel that Ti is my bro-function, I identify with it the most. The problem is, my Te is very developed too, and, generally, if I merely take a test, they score pretty close. So do Ne and Ni, and sometimes I get typed as an INTJ
- I enjoy finding logical inconsistencies and pointing them out

Someone recently told me I struck them as an INFJ in a Ni-Ti loop that suppresses her feelings. I was a bit amazed, but the INFJ description does fit me too. The problem is that I'm not people-oriented. Despite this:

- I can read/understand people and their intentions (INTPs don't seem as good at this)
- I am interested (objectively) in religions, symbolism, archetypes. I am not spiritual myself.
- I do feel kind of alien and disconnected usually
- I can be very affectionate (with my partner, for instance - I just alternate that with being very cold)


I'd say I'm an INTP, but I read that a high Ti can block out Fe, and so can my desire to be objective/unbiased and realistic.

What do INFJ in Ni-Ti loops typically behave like? Could I be one, despite my NT-ish traits? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 

Amalie Muller

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
119
MBTI Type
ENTP
Most online tests type me as an INTJ and, for a couple years, I thought I was one. Sure, my J/P preference was very slight, but I did recognize myself in INTJ descriptions. And I still do. That's mostly because I am driven and ambitious (but I later realised I focus them internally) and let's just say I can give the INTJ vibe (just as their famous stare of death), and people have noticed that. I honestly don't know what arguments to give in favour of being an INTJ at this point, other than testing as one, which is, more often than not, worthless.

However, as of late, I got more doubtful. The problem with INTJ was mostly its cognitive functions. Reasons why I'm probably an INTP:

- I procrastinate. I am driven, as I said, but I often ask myself what the point of doing it (whatever "it" is) would be and I fall back in my nihilistic pit (it could be blamed on my self-diagnosed depression, though)
- I love analysing things, entertaining multiple possibilities/trying to find multiple interpretations (Ne?), being a little philosopher
- I feel that Ti is my bro-function, I identify with it the most. The problem is, my Te is very developed too, and, generally, if I merely take a test, they score pretty close. So do Ne and Ni, and sometimes I get typed as an INTJ
- I enjoy finding logical inconsistencies and pointing them out

Someone recently told me I struck them as an INFJ in a Ni-Ti loop that suppresses her feelings. I was a bit amazed, but the INFJ description does fit me too. The problem is that I'm not people-oriented. Despite this:

- I can read/understand people and their intentions (INTPs don't seem as good at this)
- I am interested (objectively) in religions, symbolism, archetypes. I am not spiritual myself.
- I do feel kind of alien and disconnected usually
- I can be very affectionate (with my partner, for instance - I just alternate that with being very cold)


I'd say I'm an INTP, but I read that a high Ti can block out Fe, and so can my desire to be objective/unbiased and realistic.

What do INFJ in Ni-Ti loops typically behave like? Could I be one, despite my NT-ish traits? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I've never seen any good reasons to believe in the existence of dom-ter loops. Not saying they don't, merely that I'm unconvinced.

I don't think there's enough info here to say whether you're INTJ or INTP (or anything else).
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
Any particular questions I could answer (or aspects I should pay attention to) in order to figure myself out?
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Any particular questions I could answer (or aspects I should pay attention to) in order to figure myself out?

You can take my personality inventory, via PM on this forum, and then PM the results to me for scoring.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Most online tests type me as an INTJ and, for a couple years, I thought I was one. Sure, my J/P preference was very slight, but I did recognize myself in INTJ descriptions. And I still do. That's mostly because I am driven and ambitious (but I later realised I focus them internally) and let's just say I can give the INTJ vibe (just as their famous stare of death), and people have noticed that. I honestly don't know what arguments to give in favour of being an INTJ at this point, other than testing as one, which is, more often than not, worthless.

However, as of late, I got more doubtful. The problem with INTJ was mostly its cognitive functions. Reasons why I'm probably an INTP:

- I procrastinate. I am driven, as I said, but I often ask myself what the point of doing it (whatever "it" is) would be and I fall back in my nihilistic pit (it could be blamed on my self-diagnosed depression, though)
- I love analysing things, entertaining multiple possibilities/trying to find multiple interpretations (Ne?), being a little philosopher
- I feel that Ti is my bro-function, I identify with it the most. The problem is, my Te is very developed too, and, generally, if I merely take a test, they score pretty close. So do Ne and Ni, and sometimes I get typed as an INTJ
- I enjoy finding logical inconsistencies and pointing them out

Someone recently told me I struck them as an INFJ in a Ni-Ti loop that suppresses her feelings. I was a bit amazed, but the INFJ description does fit me too. The problem is that I'm not people-oriented. Despite this:

- I can read/understand people and their intentions (INTPs don't seem as good at this)
- I am interested (objectively) in religions, symbolism, archetypes. I am not spiritual myself.
- I do feel kind of alien and disconnected usually
- I can be very affectionate (with my partner, for instance - I just alternate that with being very cold)


I'd say I'm an INTP, but I read that a high Ti can block out Fe, and so can my desire to be objective/unbiased and realistic.

What do INFJ in Ni-Ti loops typically behave like? Could I be one, despite my NT-ish traits? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

If you're really an introvert, then Fe, as an extroverted type, is not going to find a large place in your personality vocabulary. In other words, it's not going to be expressed as a socially interactive function, but one that plays a role in determining the purpose your Ni intuitions play. In your case, if you're an INFJ, then you will be a societal visionary, someone who can somehow see the direction in which society as a whole is flowing into the future.

As for Ni-Ti loops, they exist because the INFJ is not prone to acting on his or her visions and falls back on objectively intellectual methods of internal discourse.
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
I am, indeed, very introverted. Do "individual" intuitions count too, as opposed to them being related to society as a whole? Mostly, being able to predict what this or that person is likely to do or how they are likely to approach a problem. I am interested in the future development of society and I do think about it, though admittedly less than about deciphering more and more truths related to human condition.

I see what is generally called the "human condition" as a way of objectifying people, in a sense, since I pay no attention to them subjectively. Would a psychological or philosophical interest in society (one that does not involve growing attached to it, but using intellectual methods in an attempt to make sense of it) be common in INFJs?
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I am, indeed, very introverted. Do "individual" intuitions count too, as opposed to them being related to society as a whole? Mostly, being able to predict what this or that person is likely to do or how they are likely to approach a problem. I am interested in the future development of society and I do think about it, though admittedly less than about deciphering more and more truths related to human condition.

I see what is generally called the "human condition" as a way of objectifying people, in a sense, since I pay no attention to them subjectively. Would a psychological or philosophical interest in society (one that does not involve growing attached to it, but using intellectual methods in an attempt to make sense of it) be common in INFJs?

Taking an interest in society is common to many types. But if you are an Ni-dom, especially with Fe-aux, then you will be more profound and visionary in your ideas about society.

Taking an objective approach with individuals is what I call the social risk-aversion approach. There will be a tendency to place "something" between yourself and other, in contrast with your tendency to be very much in touch with yourself. Your communications with others will be indirect, through some sort of medium such as art. You, as a (possible) INFJ, desire to be understood and appreciated, but you won't believe that direct communication with others will ever get you there but will be doomed to failure.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The reason is that the INFJ's visions are very real and personal to them, while directly communicating those visions conceptually to others will likely result in a skeptical response. An INTJ has conceptual ideas about the future, and they are less profound than the INFJs because INTJ's Te gives it a certain capacity for filtering out ideas via self-skepticism or self-questioning, whereas Fe is not a skeptical function.

The INFJ's desire to understand others on an individual (although not very personal) level gives them a feeling of social control that they otherwise lack.
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
Is the desire to be appreciated strictly seen as a means to connect and communicate or as a natural part in self-develeopment (e.g. painting because you want to become someone and therefore associate yourself with a form of immortality)? I care quite a bit for improving myself, but it doesn't always happen through means that give the possibility to connect to other people. For instance, I take an interest in drawing, but it is on par with my interest in Norse mythology, or quantum physics, which will never provide me with a medium for communication. I've seen this before as a manifestation of the INTP tendency of taking up many things at once and having various hobbies.

I've read a bit on the difference between Ni and Ne. Ni users supposedly experience sudden realizations (which I do not) and are more focused than I typically am. They tend to generate one idea and stick to it instead of many. If I am given a piece of poetry, for instance, or a metaphor, I will try to find more interpretations to it, even though they would lack the same depth. This is my (not so good) understanding of the functions, so I might be entirely wrong.

EDIT: Both my Fe and Fi (not as relevant here) are very, very, low, acccording to cognitive functions tests (I once got a negative number for Fi, hah). This is part of what fuels my skepticism towards INFJ.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is the desire to be appreciated strictly seen as a means to connect and communicate or as a natural part in self-develeopment (e.g. painting because you want to become someone and therefore associate yourself with a form of immortality)? I care quite a bit for improving myself, but it doesn't always happen through means that give the possibility to connect to other people. For instance, I take an interest in drawing, but it is on par with my interest in Norse mythology, or quantum physics, which will never provide me with a medium for communication. I've seen this before as a manifestation of the INTP tendency of taking up many things at once and having various hobbies.

I've read a bit on the difference between Ni and Ne. Ni users supposedly experience sudden realizations (which I do not) and are more focused than I typically am. They tend to generate one idea and stick to it instead of many. If I am given a piece of poetry, for instance, or a metaphor, I will try to find more interpretations to it, even though they would lack the same depth. This is my (not so good) understanding of the functions, so I might be entirely wrong.

EDIT: Both my Fe and Fi (not as relevant here) are very, very, low, acccording to cognitive functions tests (I once got a negative number for Fi, hah). This is part of what fuels my skepticism towards INFJ.

"Sudden realizations," in other words, flashes of inspiration and insight, are a key Ni trait. Consider Ni-dom Carl Jung, who saw WWI in a vision a few years before it happened, and then, just before he died, he saw the world erupting in flames.

If you don't have these types of experiences, then Ni-dom hardly seems to be the right function for you. But Ni doesn't always have visions. With INTJ, it is more often a conceptual idea that results from a synthesis of the past with the present and creates an idea about the future. This is not a speculative idea, but one that the INTJ treats as real.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is the desire to be appreciated strictly seen as a means to connect and communicate or as a natural part in self-develeopment (e.g. painting because you want to become someone and therefore associate yourself with a form of immortality)? I care quite a bit for improving myself, but it doesn't always happen through means that give the possibility to connect to other people. For instance, I take an interest in drawing, but it is on par with my interest in Norse mythology, or quantum physics, which will never provide me with a medium for communication. I've seen this before as a manifestation of the INTP tendency of taking up many things at once and having various hobbies.

With Fe-inferior and Fi as a shadow type, INTP is of all the types least interested in making their ideas known or felt to others. Although they may feel, and often are, misunderstood, it will often be given up as a lost cause. Or the INTP will congregate with other INTPs who are like-minded in their ideas. An interest in doing art is, of course, not limited in type, but as I said for the INFJ (being Fe-aux) there is a desire to communicate to others. The Ti-tertiary of the INFJ gives it an air of logical authority and independence that belies their true personality. Getting to know the INFJ better will reveal otherwise. This sheltered person has no real desire to be sheltered, but feels it is necessary due to the extremely personal (and often dark) nature of the internal state.
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
Oh, another question, is deductive reasoning considered a way to achieve such visions? I suppose it's not, as I'd assume it involves Thinking more than iNtuition.

Let us suppose I am not a Ni-dom type, which is rather likely now. I am thinking of a topic and have in mind a certain direction in which to canalize my resources. I am looking for a specific answer, not merely giving general considerations, in other words. I get to the same conclusion a Ni-dom does, but they do it more intuitively and I do it for a list of reasons that I am aware of and that, given a particular premise, lead to that outcome. I can explain how or why I think it will be so. It is -not- a vision, right? Because this type of process is what I'd more likely engage in.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Oh, another question, is deductive reasoning considered a way to achieve such visions? I suppose it's not, as I'd assume it involves Thinking more than iNtuition.

Let us suppose I am not a Ni-dom type, which is rather likely now. I am thinking of a topic and have in mind a certain direction in which to canalize my resources. I am looking for a specific answer, not merely giving general considerations, in other words. I get to the same conclusion a Ni-dom does, but they do it more intuitively and I do it for a list of reasons that I am aware of and that, given a particular premise, lead to that outcome. I can explain how or why I think it will be so. It is -not- a vision, right? Because this type of process is what I'd more likely engage in.

Some visions are more controlled while others are spontaneous. The truly spontaneous visions belong to the INFJ, while the INTJ has visions determined by a thought-process, that is, they occur via a process which, as I said before, conceptually unites past and present into the future.

This future will regard something external, it has nothing to do with predicting the internal outcomes of Ti sorts of theories such as QM, because these outcomes are purely theoretical.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Or to put it another way, a vision is literally a vision - as in an internal perception. As such, it is a product of imagination, and it can be produced either through an explicit conceptual process or as the result of an unconscious flash of intuition that produces a vision.

As an INTP, I've had flashes of ideas, theories, new ideas. But that road doesn't, of itself, lead to any externalized ideas regarding (as with Te and Fe) ordering the external world. I don't wish to change society but merely to subjectively please myself, that is, to satisfy my desire to come up with something novel in the realm of theories.
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
With Fe-inferior and Fi as a shadow type, INTP is of all the types least interested in making their ideas known or felt to others. Although they may feel, and often are, misunderstood, it will often be given up as a lost cause.

This is part of why I switched to thinking of myself as an INTJ to INTP-ing around. INTJs seem to want the external world to be in a way that is in conformity with their ideas. I do not really care much about how it is organized. If someone is doing their job well, I don't care if they're doing it differently than I am. Nor do I care if someone pertains to a system of belief that's nothing but logical inconsistencies. I will want to give arguments against it and debunk it if it's a close friend, for instance, and someone in whose intellectual abilities I believe. However, for the most part, I'll leave them to their flawed opinions and nurture some condescending thoughts to feed my misanthropia.

I like debates on the internet, though. They seem a bit more factual and, once someone is engaging in them, you can have the certainty that they are either open to other opinions, or well-versed in supporting theirs. Which is no so true about real life.
 
Last edited:

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This is part of why I switched to thinking of myself as an INTJ to INTP-ing around. INTJs seem to want the external world in a way that is in conformity with their ideas. I do not really care much about how it is organized. If someone is doing their job well, I don't care if they're doing it differently than I am. Nor do I care if someone pertains to a system of belief that's nothing but logical inconsistencies. I will want to give arguments against it and debunk it if it's a close friend, for instance, and someone in whose intellectual abilities I believe. However, for the most part, I'll leave them to their flawed opinions and nurture some condescending thoughts to feed my misanthropia.

I like debates on the internet, though. They seem a bit more factual and, once someone is engaging in them, you can have the certainty that they are either open to other opinions, or well-versed in supporting theirs. Which is no so true about real life.

The orderly ideas of the INTJ, it must be remembered, come from the external realm. And INTJ intends that the external realm stay that way. So they are very conservative in maintaining their ideas externally. Ti is a shadow type for the INTJ, and as such, logical systems are not very important except to the extent that logical systems help maintain and organize certain of their ideas. But the INTJ isn't very good at maintaining the Ti rigor of this internal order very well by itself, and is more prone to irrational flights of fancy in the internal realm, theories based in such things as a stern belief in the supernatural that the Ti-dom would consider ridiculous. But such ideas are often founded in the external realm, society (e.g., religious organizations).
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yet the ideas of the external organization, for both the INTJ and INFJ, remain in the theoretical realm. These types are not interested in the literal social aspects, that is, the blending in and merging with tribes of people. That they may do so is not the point, which is that they are not interested in it for its own sake.

The INTJ and INFJ may retain a chameleon-like feigning of interest that the INTP type would less likely engage in. The INTP would much rather stay in the corner of the social gathering and mull over things of personal interest (the same can be said for the INFP, although this type is more likely to engage others in terms of finding a partner).
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This is part of why I switched to thinking of myself as an INTJ to INTP-ing around. INTJs seem to want the external world to be in a way that is in conformity with their ideas. I do not really care much about how it is organized. If someone is doing their job well, I don't care if they're doing it differently than I am. Nor do I care if someone pertains to a system of belief that's nothing but logical inconsistencies. I will want to give arguments against it and debunk it if it's a close friend, for instance, and someone in whose intellectual abilities I believe. However, for the most part, I'll leave them to their flawed opinions and nurture some condescending thoughts to feed my misanthropia.

I like debates on the internet, though. They seem a bit more factual and, once someone is engaging in them, you can have the certainty that they are either open to other opinions, or well-versed in supporting theirs. Which is no so true about real life.

As a bit more of an advanced notion, engaging others intellectually, whether in a forum debate or a game of chess, allows the INTP to exercise the shadow-opposite of Ti which is Te. A chess game or a game of Risk is, in a figurative sense, a mere shadow of a real war in which a Te general would engage.

On the other hand, a battle gives the Te general an opportunity to exercise his Ti shadow-opposite in terms of how to logically counter an enemy's moves. But the Te general is well aware that life does not conform to rules as a chess game does. Thus, for him, the Ti is a shadow type in which its pure theory cannot keep up with the reality of the moment.
 
Top