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Thread: xSTP or xNTP?

  1. #11
    Junior Member Witch's Avatar
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    @skylights If I have Fe in tertiary that would make me an ExTP... Which sounds fine with me. I'm really extraverted but I need a lot of time on my own to recharge. @AmalieMuller skylights is actually right. You can't switch functions on and off, because they don't work alone but instead form a pattern. For example Se works with Ni, and Ne with Si. Also this is the very right place for having this discussion because I'm no beginners I understand very well the MBTI system. You have 4 kinds of functions: P(i) (Si, Ni)/ P(e) (Se,Ne)/ J(i) (Ti, Fi)/ J(e) (Te, Fe). We call J types the 'judging' types because they have a J(e) function in their dominant stack, so as their dominant or auxiliary function. Following the logic we call P types Perceiving because they have a P(e) function in their dominant stack.
    I'll repeat myself know sensors can be as smart as intuitive, but it's not the same type of intelligence. When I think of Ne I see quick comprehension of broad knowledge, you link everything together.
    @fia Sizing people up is a ENFP/ENTP/ESTP thing first I believe. They are the most observant types. How would you describe the INFJ way of 'sizing up' ?

  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    @Witch

    Portrait of an INFJ
    "INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them. As an extreme example, some INFJs report experiences of a psychic nature, such as getting strong feelings about there being a problem with a loved one, and discovering later that they were in a car accident. This is the sort of thing that other types may scorn and scoff at, and the INFJ themself does not really understand their intuition at a level which can be verbalized. Consequently, most INFJs are protective of their inner selves, sharing only what they choose to share when they choose to share it. They are deep, complex individuals, who are quite private and typically difficult to understand. INFJs hold back part of themselves, and can be secretive."

    I would personally describe it as Ni providing a primarily intuitive perception of reality that is internally organizing into core concepts, and Fe takes in all the external, subjective data about people. If the INFJ has a Ni that is calibrated well enough to reality, then they can be unusually accurate in sizing up people. I would say that one thing that helps me to achieve accuracy in responding sizing up people is my reluctance to start with specificity and to get a generalized impression of the person that gradually moves toward specificity. I am comfortable dealing in approximations.

    I think the main difference between INFJ Ni-dom intuition and ENXP Ne-dom is that the INFJ is more inclined towards an empathetic, experiential insight into others, rather than a cognitive one. I don't notice if someone is anxious, I feel it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #13
    Junior Member Witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    @Witch

    Portrait of an INFJ
    "INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them. As an extreme example, some INFJs report experiences of a psychic nature, such as getting strong feelings about there being a problem with a loved one, and discovering later that they were in a car accident. This is the sort of thing that other types may scorn and scoff at, and the INFJ themself does not really understand their intuition at a level which can be verbalized. Consequently, most INFJs are protective of their inner selves, sharing only what they choose to share when they choose to share it. They are deep, complex individuals, who are quite private and typically difficult to understand. INFJs hold back part of themselves, and can be secretive."
    Yeah I knew that, I asked for a more personal vision hehe ExTP types will size people up from actual facts, appearances, all the details of a person forming 'a vibe' (I do this very quiclky, I used to be a real social chameleon and get people essences in a second). Well that's how I would describe it...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Amalie Muller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch View Post
    @skylights If I have Fe in tertiary that would make me an ExTP... Which sounds fine with me. I'm really extraverted but I need a lot of time on my own to recharge. @AmalieMuller skylights is actually right. You can't switch functions on and off, because they don't work alone but instead form a pattern. For example Se works with Ni, and Ne with Si. Also this is the very right place for having this discussion because I'm no beginners I understand very well the MBTI system. You have 4 kinds of functions: P(i) (Si, Ni)/ P(e) (Se,Ne)/ J(i) (Ti, Fi)/ J(e) (Te, Fe). We call J types the 'judging' types because they have a J(e) function in their dominant stack, so as their dominant or auxiliary function. Following the logic we call P types Perceiving because they have a P(e) function in their dominant stack.
    I'll repeat myself know sensors can be as smart as intuitive, but it's not the same type of intelligence. When I think of Ne I see quick comprehension of broad knowledge, you link everything together.
    @fia Sizing people up is a ENFP/ENTP/ESTP thing first I believe. They are the most observant types. How would you describe the INFJ way of 'sizing up' ?
    I have no reply to your reference to me, as it seems pretty obvious.

    When it comes to sizing people up, you are right to say ENTPs, ENFPs, and ESTPs are very skilled at this. However, you miss out the other EP type, the ESFPs. ESFPs are just as socially intelligent as the other three.
    @fia is correct to say Ni doms are also skilled at sizing people up. However, their Ni is not always very reliable, though the INJ is not naturally inclined to question their insights (they can keep believing a person is the way they originally thought, no matter what the new evidence says). EPs tend not to fall into this trap so much. So yes, INJs can and do have quick insights into people that can border on genius at times -- but this is at best a sometimes thing, as their intuitions are pretty hit-or-miss.

    Also, dominant F types with intuition can be exceptionally good at sizing people up -- ENFJs and INFPs. Though each in very different ways.

  5. #15
    Junior Member Witch's Avatar
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    Well ESFPs are socially intelligent too but I noticed their Se is more oriented on fun and their environnement, they are not really prone to analysis. ENFPs and ENTPs are the best at it, ESTP are great too because of their auxiliary Ti... *imo

  6. #16
    Senior Member Amalie Muller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch View Post
    Well ESFPs are socially intelligent too but I noticed their Se is more oriented on fun and their environnement, they are not really prone to analysis. ENFPs and ENTPs are the best at it, ESTP are great too because of their auxiliary Ti... *imo
    Anti-ESFP stereotype nonsense.

    What you just said about Se could relate equally to ESTPs, not to mention ENPs (in a different way).

    Ti-Fe doesn't give you an advantage for understanding/analyzing people over Fi-Te.

  7. #17
    Junior Member Witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalie Muller View Post
    Anti-ESFP stereotype nonsense.

    What you just said about Se could relate equally to ESTPs, not to mention ENPs (in a different way).

    Ti-Fe doesn't give you an advantage for understanding/analyzing people over Fi-Te.
    Woah there, that was not Anti-ESFP at all. I am just expressing my opinion which is that Se and Fi together is not prone to objective analysis. There is some ESFPs who like doing it but I noticed MOST OF THEM are subjective because they are Feelers. That is not a bad or good thing... Yes Se is BASICALLY oriented toward the environnement and in some ways, having fun, but ESTPs have auxiliary Ti which is more objective than Fi. Every trait we've been talking about could be referred as stereotypes...

  8. #18
    Senior Member Amalie Muller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch View Post
    Woah there, that was not Anti-ESFP at all. I am just expressing my opinion which is that Se and Fi together is not prone to objective analysis. There is some ESFPs who like doing it but I noticed MOST OF THEM are subjective because they are Feelers. That is not a bad or good thing... Yes Se is BASICALLY oriented toward the environnement and in some ways, having fun, but ESTPs have auxiliary Ti which is more objective than Fi. Every trait we've been talking about could be referred as stereotypes...
    ESTPs and ESFPs are both equally objective, because they have Se as a dominant function (which is very objective). Ti and Fi are both very subjective functions. So, for example, the average ESFPs worldview is more "objective" than the average INTPs worldview, even though the INTP is a dominant Thinking type.

    Fi and Ti are both subjective-analytical functions, they just analyze different things for different criteria.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amalie Muller View Post
    ESTPs and ESFPs are both equally objective, because they have Se as a dominant function (which is very objective). Ti and Fi are both very subjective functions. So, for example, the average ESFPs worldview is more "objective" than the average INTPs worldview, even though the INTP is a dominant Thinking type.

    Fi and Ti are both subjective-analytical functions, they just analyze different things for different criteria.
    I agree with everything you just said. Ti and Fi are both subjective function but I see Ti as more detached than Fi and for me, it is necessary for good analysis. Thank you for discussing with me that was interesting

  10. #20
    Senior Member Amalie Muller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch View Post
    I agree with everything you just said. Ti and Fi are both subjective function but I see Ti as more detached than Fi and for me, it is necessary for good analysis. Thank you for discussing with me that was interesting
    No problem.

    I still don't think ESTPs have an advantage over ESFPs when it comes to understanding people though. They just approach it in VERY different ways (it's actually a question of Ti-Fe vs. Fi-Te more than anything else).

    Ti-Fe seeks to find commonalities and patterns between all kinds if people, to understand humanity as a whole. These types go for BREADTH of human understanding, and the masters of this are the ENFJs.

    Fi-Te seeks very personal knowledge of what it is to be a human being, and leads to you trying to get a very deep understanding of yourself, and the people you find important (not necessarily because you like them). Fi-Te is extremely individualistic, and develops an understanding of humanity by looking into a few cases in great DEPTH, and using this as a foundation. The masters of this style are the INFPs.

    I don't really want to write a longer post in my phone, so I'll leave it there haha.

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