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  1. #71
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    I am reviving this thread. I received some good feedback from @Starry and a guy – who is obviously well read on it - I was chatting with online who got me thinking or trying to self analyze.

    In very very very short and probably missing quite a few steps of the exact conversation, this is the conversation I had with him:

    From the beginning he was quite sure I am not an e9 – just like most people on vent who doesn’t seem to think I am an e9 - though I was insisting on it, and said that I am probably an e3.

    There were a few things that got highlighted when he asked more and more questions from me. One of which was that I ‘constantly – which means every fucking day – tries to create a personality that is more efficient/better equipped/competent to deal with ALL things that I deem important ‘without losing touch with who I REALLY am.’ Note that I want to change but I don’t want to stray too far away from who I really am because it would feel unnatural to me and maybe even hard to maintain.

    He pointed out that E9s unknowingly merge – please note that these weren’t his exact words – with personalities that are stronger than theirs, whereas E3s intentionally put on a personality they believe is attractive. So if by any chance that an e9 merges with a personality trait it would be unintentionally. However, e3s create intentionally.

    Since I was insisting that I enjoy creating traits intentionally and I think about this constantly he pointed out that I am more an E3 than E9 since it was more of an e3 characteristic.

    Add to the above since I am comfortable receiving attention we settled down on e3 (E9s avoid attention). But then again 9s have a likable vibe that lightens up people’s moods. I know one ISFP 9w1 who becomes a victim of attention constantly (in a good way).

    However, settling down on e3 lasted only for a few days. Because if I am an e3 something was quite off since I really don’t try to accomplish to impress and I definitely do not form my identity around my accomplishments. So I assumed maybe I am an e3 disintegrated into an e9 or was simply unhealthy. However, when reading the descriptions of e3s being unhealthy I realized that I definitely can’t be an unhealthy e3 because I DO NOT BRAG. Yes I do brag but probably with the intention of sharing my good fortunes, having something to talk about and lightning up the mood – all of which is done in a way that people feel that I was happy go lucky and sharing my happiness - whereas e3s brag with the intention of differentiating themselves from others (to form an identity perhaps, which has elitist vibes).

    Unhealthy e3s falsify things I read and have noticed if they feel that they have underachieved. If I believe I have underachieved I either say I fucked things up or avoid those question – but definitely not while having my chest held high like an e3 would. E3 personalities are painfully obvious to me. I think even before reading about enneagrams I managed to note them and categorize them. (I didn’t even manage to categorize e8s, which probably means I am not a 5w6 :P.)

    When 3w2s open their mouths it sounds as though they are beating their chests and asking everyone to suck their dicks for being such an achiever. They have a ‘my, I did, I have’ sentence structures. And there is something in me that want to scream out and laugh at them. I manage to hold myself back only with great restraint. However, their image consciousness could be used as a tool to manipulate them I’ve noticed which probably means they aren’t aware of how they are coming across as to others (He also pointed this out). It’s that painfully obvious to me. (Which is why I think Franks Underwood is a 8w7 over 3w2 dear @Southern Kross – yes I am dragging you back to this thread.)

    Introverted 3w4s are equally annoying once I get to know them because they have a ‘fake I am made of plastic’ vibe. Once you notice this about them it’s hard to ignore it. Extroverted 3w4s have the same braggishness 3w2s seem to have but they also seem to have an emo side. They get deeply emotional sometimes. However, I am not sure whether I am confusing them with actual 3w2s.

    Anyway after sharing these obvious points with him we realized I am probably not an e3. He also pointed out that if I am an e3 I wouldn’t notice or wouldn’t silently laugh at e3 branded bragging – this is of course an off hand comment by him.

    We went back to e9 and then he brought up e7.

    I am more comfortable typing myself as an e9 over e7. The main reasons being:
    I am quite physically grounded (gut center?), I like routine (gut center?), I am not flighty at all (e7s are fucking flighty), due to being physically grounded I am more introverted than extroverted, I can relate to e3 (e9s integrate to e3) and last but not least I have that bottled up 9w8 anger burst moments (however, I am more like a pendulum of being pissed off and happy than feeling bottled up).

    However 9w8s don’t seem animated at all. Even when excited it last for only a few seconds. It’s as if they don’t want to feel excited fearing they would burst like a balloon. They do have the same type of annoyed aggression/bottle up anger I share but I only have these bottled up anger moments at home and only under situations where there is no opportunity to express it. This is quite evident when dealing with my ESTJ 8w7 father. They know how to make you feel pushed against a wall – though are excellent parents. However, I would say I more often say/imply people to fuck off than to bottle things up. Also I think I have become more expressive as I have matured.

    This got me wondering what happens to e7s when they disintegrate to e1s? Unfortunately he hasn’t met or noticed what happens to them when they do so and there aren’t that many articles to read on it. Also I know very little about e1s to get an idea of it. Feeling judgmental or judging others are something that probably happens to them he assumed but I don’t think he was entirely sure about it.

    If anyone knows what happens to e7 when disintegrating towards e1s please do share!

    So finally – could it be that what I am seeing in myself as an e9 is what is happening to me under stressful situations – perhaps an e7 disintegrating towards a e1? Or am I a 9w8 and these obvious extroversions I see in myself especially when interacting with groups of people is me integrating towards e3? However, I don’t become a perfectionist as an e1 would sadly. I become more of a slacker.

    (Note – I inquired him whether it is possible that I am a 9w8 integrated towards 3 which is what is making me intentionally create attractive/efficient/competent traits to which he replied that it doesn’t work that way since if your core is e9 it would unintentionally merge and that enneagrams don’t stray too far away from the core.)

    But if I am a 7 I have to theoretically be a w8 over w6. I just can’t relate to the nervous energy of e6s, I am seldom nervous, seldom flighty and I am quite physically grounded. I clearly can see the difference between a 7w6 and I.

    So am I a 7w8 or 9w8? I am currently reluctantly leaning towards 7w8. Maybe if I know what happens to them when they disintegrate I could relate.

    By Starry -



    Gulp at 9s fear that they lack identity. When you say ‘they obtain one through merging with others’ do you think they do so intentionally? (If so Starry, I am back on the e9 wagon.)

    I don’t know whether I fear I lack identity or whether I fear the identity I have formed isn’t attractive/competent enough. It is possible it is the latter or it is even possible that I initially feared the lack of identity, then I started forming one and now I am currently filling in the blanks.

    By Starry -



    I think it’s safe to say that I am a TP . I think I should stay away from trying to type my MTBI type for now, because for me the enneagram type is currently more important .
    .

  2. #72
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
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    From my understanding, 9s are largely unaware of their lack of identity. They subconsciously try to fill the void by growing attached to stronger, more robust personalities and begin to take on their characteristics by induction ... but once again, this is apparently something they're not aware of.

    This is what I have heard anyway. I self-typed as a 9 for a while but was told that real 9s probably would not express conscious fears of lacking a real, recognizable, unique identity.

    So if the same applies to you (and it seems that you want to forge your identity consciously as opposed to already identifying strongly with an identity that you haven't even realized isn't your own) ... core 9 may be less likely than 7.

    But yeah, 7 is a head type ... what do you mean when you say you feel grounded? How do you experience that?

  3. #73
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    From my understanding, 9s are largely unaware of their lack of identity. They subconsciously try to fill the void by growing attached to stronger, more robust personalities and begin to take on their characteristics by induction ... but once again, this is apparently something they're not aware of.

    This is what I have heard anyway. I self-typed as a 9 for a while but was told that real 9s probably would not express conscious fears of lacking a real, recognizable, unique identity.

    So if the same applies to you (and it seems that you want to forge your identity consciously as opposed to already identifying strongly with an identity that you haven't even realized isn't your own) ... core 9 may be less likely than 7.

    But yeah, 7 is a head type ... what do you mean when you say you feel grounded? How do you experience that?
    These are good points. 9s tend to end up being a little like every type, unintentionally chameleon-like. That's why they're called the crown of the Enneagram.

    @riva I'm tempted to start at square one because things are getting so confused. Let's strip it back to fundamental driving forces.

    Which is more of a primary concern to you?

    - How you are perceived (through your self, your acts, your means of expression)?
    - Whether you have sufficient control (over your impulses, your environment, your boundaries)?
    - Dealing with the dangers, uncertainties and difficulties in life (by avoiding them, overcoming them, being properly prepared/equipped to deal with them)?

    If you really need to pick more than one, try to rank them.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #74
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    My lack of self analysis is making this awfully hard for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    From my understanding, 9s are largely unaware of their lack of identity. They subconsciously try to fill the void by growing attached to stronger, more robust personalities and begin to take on their characteristics by induction ... but once again, this is apparently something they're not aware of.

    This is what I have heard anyway. I self-typed as a 9 for a while but was told that real 9s probably would not express conscious fears of lacking a real, recognizable, unique identity.

    So if the same applies to you (and it seems that you want to forge your identity consciously as opposed to already identifying strongly with an identity that you haven't even realized isn't your own) ... core 9 may be less likely than 7.

    But yeah, 7 is a head type ... what do you mean when you say you feel grounded? How do you experience that?
    What does is mean by the lack of identity? Does it apply to both W1 and W2s? I think w8s have a identity from what I have noticed. 9w1s seem to merge. Maybe the w8 makes the 9w8 decide what to choose and what to choose being a decisive type?

    I don’t know whether it is the lack of identity I am trying to fill or formulate a better one. If it’s formulate a better/attractive one it’s e3 and if it’s merging unknowingly with a stronger personality it’s e9. Accordingly I am definitely a e3 but as I’ve said in my long as post –

    ‘I really don’t try to accomplish to impress and I definitely do not form my identity around my accomplishments.’

    ‘Whereas e3s brag with the intention of differentiating themselves from others (to form an identity perhaps, which has elitist vibes) and I don’t’

    ‘Unhealthy e3s falsify things I read and have noticed if they feel that they have underachieved.’

    ‘He also pointed out that if I am an e3 I wouldn’t notice or wouldn’t silently laugh at e3 branded bragging – this is of course an off hand comment by him.’

    When I mean grounded hmmm… likes routine, thinks long term hard works pays off, not flighty, sees obvious e7 and think they are annoyingly messy etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    These are good points. 9s tend to end up being a little like every type, unintentionally chameleon-like. That's why they're called the crown of the Enneagram.

    @riva I'm tempted to start at square one because things are getting so confused. Let's strip it back to fundamental driving forces.

    Which is more of a primary concern to you?

    - How you are perceived (through your self, your acts, your means of expression)?
    - Whether you have sufficient control (over your impulses, your environment, your boundaries)?
    - Dealing with the dangers, uncertainties and difficulties in life (by avoiding them, overcoming them, being properly prepared/equipped to deal with them)?

    If you really need to pick more than one, try to rank them.
    Man this is so hard to answer.

    I would place dealing with dangers the last. I do deal with dangers. I wouldn't play the violine if my house is on fire but I am definitely not the type who thinks too much on uncertainties. If I know the uncertainty is going to be a threat fore sure, then I would treat it with haste. I am extremely prepared at work though. I can think of multiple angles (actually multiple angels are shown to myself by myself without even thinking about them) for which I cover all the bases. However, worries I am not and not anxious over what's going to happen I am not. I think people are different people at work and probably not the most natural self. Overall I think this covers e6? I am certain I am not a e6. I've know plenty of them (easy to notice them) and I know I just can't be one of them because I am like the opposite of them - NEVER WORRIED FOR MY OWN GOOD. I think what happens at work is stress acting on me - though like I said before I just see multiple 'angles' NOT multiple 'worrying points.'

    Could you elaborate on the second point a bit?

    It's quite so hard for me to choose between the first two. I know for a fact the first is the most concerning for me. However, it’s not how I am perceived to others, it’s how I am perceived to myself. To cover the point of being perceived to others: the only thing I am concerned are my means of expressions (assuming I know got what you meant) the acts are of no concern. However, I as I said multiple times in this thread before, really really am concerned about how I am perceived to myself. I don’t know whether this is related to enneagram or instinctual variant but it sure it related to low self image. I do not recognize it as a low self image issue, because I know in the end I’ll always succeed or get through somehow.


    I need further clarrifications on the second point. from what little I understand of it the sequence of concern are: 1st, 2nd and 3rd. However, if considering my teen or younger years it's definitely 2nd, 3rd and 1st.
    .

  5. #75
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Man this is so hard to answer.
    I deliberately didn't tell you what that was, to avoid the already muddied waters. It was an attempt to look at the fundamentals separate to the confusing details. I was hoping you wouldn't try to guess but you still did.

    That was the 3 type triads:
    - Heart triad - concerned with self-image (2s, 3s, 4s)
    - Gut triad - concerned with anger and autonomy (8s, 9s, 1s)
    - Head triad - concerned with threats and anxiety (5s, 6s 7s)

    The stuff I put in brackets applies to all the types within each triad. For example, 5s are anxious about the uncertainties of the future and prepare as much knowledge as they can to make it more manageable and less scary. 7s for example deal with the sense of uncertainty by distraction. Think of Zac Efron in Neighbours (a 7w8), partying endlessly and not going to class to avoid dealing with his uneasiness about his future after collage. Or Robin Williams in Mrs Doubtfire (a 7w6), being the cool dad, doing all the fun spontaneous stuff with his kids but totally lacking responsibility or stability - perhaps to avoid dealing with realities in life or risking his children's displeasure (he leaves that stuff to the mother). It's only after he becomes the character Mrs Doubtfire, where he must pretend to be totally dependable, that he learns greater responsibility. 7s do have a serious peter pan syndrome and tend to live in a state of denial.

    Read this write up and see what I'm talking about. Have a think about it.

    3s, 7s, 9s and 2s (which is an outside possibility) all lack self-awareness to some degree, so that fact you are struggling with this suggests you may be one of these.

    (BTW I'm going away for a few days so can't reply until then)
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #76
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I am reviving this thread. I received some good feedback from @Starry and a guy – who is obviously well read on it - I was chatting with online who got me thinking or trying to self analyze.

    In very very very short and probably missing quite a few steps of the exact conversation, this is the conversation I had with him:

    From the beginning he was quite sure I am not an e9 – just like most people on vent who doesn’t seem to think I am an e9 - though I was insisting on it, and said that I am probably an e3.

    I apologize riva for taking so long to respond to this.

    So, I've put some thought into this post. I haven't yet read your responses to Southern Kross' questions...but I must say that I continue to tackle these revivals with an open mind and yet each time arrive right back at "camp 7.' What I would really like to know from you here is aside from this dude above that thinks you're e3 what type do most people you interact with on vent suggest to you?

    I mean, I take no issue at all with you proclaiming yourself e9. Again, I'm pretty damn convinced you're e7 but don't feel a strong compulsion to try and convince you of it because I see no need. IOW...As I may have stated already in this thread...there are times when I will "type fight" haha. Like, when I'm interacting with a member I believe will greatly benefit from being properly typed... Or I will argue an individual's correct type if I feel they will cause confusion to others. Mistyped members that are extremely vocal always make me nervous haha. There have been quite a few times where I've experienced an "omfg" scenario when say... a misytped 7 (7 being a type already difficult for actual 7s to see themselves in) is posting at great length all kinds of crazy, confusing misinformation... or a very vocal ESFJ that has mistyped themselves as ENFP... subsequently providing countless ENFP friends and family false hope like "I now know what a mature, responsible ENFP looks like...someday my ENFP will be a non-whimsical, non-crazy, responsible member of the adult community that isn't a dreamer and remembers to pay the heating bill on time!"

    No harm will come to you, current and future e9s, or individual's seeking to understand e9 if you keep that 9w8 under your user name.

    [edit: I think it's significant though if most vent people don't think you're a 9.]

    There were a few things that got highlighted when he asked more and more questions from me. One of which was that I ‘constantly – which means every fucking day – tries to create a personality that is more efficient/better equipped/competent to deal with ALL things that I deem important ‘without losing touch with who I REALLY am.’ Note that I want to change but I don’t want to stray too far away from who I really am because it would feel unnatural to me and maybe even hard to maintain.
    Since I was insisting that I enjoy creating traits intentionally and I think about this constantly he pointed out that I am more an E3 than E9 since it was more of an e3 characteristic.
    ^^With what I'm about to say please keep in mind that I definitely believe you have both e3 and e9 in your tritype... Still, there is nothing in the above quotes that I can't easily attribute to social dominance alone.



    Add to the above since I am comfortable receiving attention we settled down on e3 (E9s avoid attention). But then again 9s have a likable vibe that lightens up people’s moods. I know one ISFP 9w1 who becomes a victim of attention constantly (in a good way).
    I wouldn't say e9s avoid attention. In fact, e9 is a type that I would say actually enjoys attention or at the very least are good-natured about receiving it as long as it isn't negative or threatening/overwhelming in any way however the individual 9 may define that. Still, your brand of "attention comfort" is e7 in nature. I mean, I feel like I could be posting in one of @Chanaynay's type me threads for all I know haha. This is interesting...this is fun...and you are reluctant to commit to anything <-oh Hai ! Ne dominance & enneagram 7. Actual 9s are the opposite. Once they have merged with something it is nearly impossible to get them to see things a different way.

    If you were to suggest to an e7 that they had been a KFC chicken in a previous life...they will actually entertain that thought for a short while if not longer...just for the interest of it and the fun of imagining endless possibilities...(granted we were in highschool and unimaginably stoned...but there was a time I accidentally somehow convinced my e7 best friend that she was a KFC chicken in her previous life and she started crying a little haha!)

    Let's now say you encounter an e9 that has merged with an understanding of themselves that included "having been a KFC chicken in a former life" <-if you were to suggest to them that you had your doubts about that... you would most likely be met with some immediate confusion and/or sense of resistance from them...followed by some sort of subtle-to-strong words of defense. Unlike the 7s suggestibility and instant response of "Hmm...maybe I was!" e9s...generally described as disliking change to begin with...would be far more likely to instantly (kindly) reject a suggestion that challenges their identity and to start providing reasons for why they are who/what they say they are. 9s (and 4s do this too to some degree but for different reasons) will often tell you who they are.




    ...a bunch of stuff on e3...

    I really like 3s...but I don't have 3 in my tritype so... I know that irritating feeling though of knowing exactly what *lame thing* an individual is doing because you share the same type...and yet everyone else is like "what do you mean? 'Person X' is so charming and awesome!" because no one can see what you see haha.



    We went back to e9 and then he brought up e7.

    I am more comfortable typing myself as an e9 over e7. The main reasons being:
    I am quite physically grounded (gut center?), I like routine (gut center?), I am not flighty at all (e7s are fucking flighty), due to being physically grounded I am more introverted than extroverted, I can relate to e3 (e9s integrate to e3) and last but not least I have that bottled up 9w8 anger burst moments (however, I am more like a pendulum of being pissed off and happy than feeling bottled up).
    I only have these bottled up anger moments at home and only under situations where there is no opportunity to express it.

    One of the things I've said a million times on this site is that the e7 descriptions are the worst. I don't relate to the e7 ...hyper-active, manic ball of eternal sunshine rock star on crack stereotypes either riva omg haha. Even so...e7s that are social doms generally have a very recognizable, down-to-earth, practical nature to them. An 8 wing would also increase that sense of steady groundedness. Likewise, what you describe as being like a pendulum...pissed-off and happy...rather than feeling compelled to hold your anger back... that is like a perfect description of 7w8 to me. You'll probably see me using that description around the forum now haha (I'm going to act like I made it up myself.) What you describe in the second quote sounds like you're making a conscious choice not to express your anger in the spirit of "choosing your battles" as opposed to experiencing a compulsion not to do so...which is again 7w8 to me (johnnyyukon was just talking to me about that come to think of it.)





    I am currently reluctantly leaning towards 7w8.

    Yup.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I voted Two a while back and you dismissed it because I used the word 'vote'. Now I try a different approach:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.internationalenneagram.org/system_and_types/index.html
    As a heart-based type, the Two's attention goes to interpersonal relationships and paying attention to important people, to giving to others, and to gaining approval. The defensive coping strategy at the root of Type Two is based on giving and maintaining connections with important others in an effort to get one's own (often unconscious) needs met. Early in their lives, most Twos had the experience of not getting their needs met, especially their emotional needs. Major traits: Twos can be upbeat and cheerful, and they pride themselves on intuitively knowing what others need, often believing that they know what is best for others. However, this outward focus on others may mask a less confident inner self, Twos often have difficulty identifying their own needs or getting them met directly. Twos can be very empathic, friendly, and giving, and yet may become resentful if their generosity is not appreciated or reciprocated. Strengths: Twos often make friends easily, can be thoughtful, attentive and fun-loving, and they also tend to be competent and driven. Challenges: Twos often neglect their own needs, try to indirectly orchestrate the behavior of other people, and can be fearful of real intimacy with others.
    What does and does not apply to you?

  8. #78
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Okay before replying to all of the above I have to laugh at something I just saw in the link SK provided -

    Fours dramatize their losses and hurts and see themselves as victims.
    Tehe

    This explains a lot .
    .

  9. #79
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    I should have read bout the centres a long long time ago, because after reading them I am absolutely certain – I’ve always been to a certain extent – that I do not belong in the image triad. To name a few things I don’t agree with:

    They experience love as conditional,
    and think that one's true self cannot be loved,
    so they must "put on" a more acceptable persona
    subconsciously substituted with the persona that will get them the most approval.
    So when an e3 brags and talks as though everyone should suck them, they aren’t really trying to put you down, make you feel inferior or rubbing their superiority on your face but is simply looking to be accepted? It still sure sounds like it though and I still can’t tolerate it because they have that ‘I am superior to you vibe’ because he/she is at the top of something you don’t give a shit about or has ever even new existed.

    While you're on stage, your parents are in the front row. You see them, watching you. If you do well, you hear them praise you and brag about you to their friends, but there's this sense that it's the performance that is being rewarded, not you as a person.
    Neglected children e3s are??? I have never had this issue. I have never even tried to be the on top or be very good at something to seek approval. I’ve never valued that at all and only since I’ve mature I am slowly beginning to realize that being a good performer could open doors or have some welcome back patting.

    In the Feeling Triad Twos, Threes, and Fours are trying to deal with feelings of shame. Twos become ultragood, trying to be caring and of service to others. Threes become perfect in their performance and outstanding in their achievements
    Perfect I am not and never has even tried to be.

    Because Twos, Threes, and Fours unconsciously know what their identity is not an expression of who they really are, they respond with hostility whenever their personal-identity is not validated.
    This explains why e3s get pissy and defensive at times. Haven’t noticed this much with e2s and e4s.


    "In order to be loved for who I am, I must pretend to be what I am not."
    Does the above apply to e4s??? I thought they are about creating some authentic personality or something.

    For twos, the approval comes through being seen as loving, generous, helpful person. You aren't in the lead, but you are the one that selflessly helps out with the costumes and decorations and you're rewarded for being seen as caring and kind.
    Loving, kind, generous will be one of the last three words someone who knows me would choose to describe me. I am friendly at times, but it’s not to belong or any of the e2 reasons. I do like to help people when I can. People might call me a ‘bro who’ll fix things’ but not any of the words given above. ‘Caring and kind’ no way.

    @Nicodemus

    As a heart-based type, the Two's attention goes to interpersonal relationships and paying attention to important people, to giving to others, and to gaining approval. The defensive coping strategy at the root of Type Two is based on giving and maintaining connections with important others in an effort to get one's own (often unconscious) needs met. Early in their lives, most Twos had the experience of not getting their needs met, especially their emotional needs. Major traits: Twos can be upbeat and cheerful, and they pride themselves on intuitively knowing what others need, often believing that they know what is best for others. However, this outward focus on others may mask a less confident inner self, Twos often have difficulty identifying their own needs or getting them met directly. Twos can be very empathic, friendly, and giving, and yet may become resentful if their generosity is not appreciated or reciprocated. Strengths: Twos often make friends easily, can be thoughtful, attentive and fun-loving, and they also tend to be competent and driven. Challenges: Twos often neglect their own needs, try to indirectly orchestrate the behavior of other people, and can be fearful of real intimacy with others
    I have highlighted a few points I can relate to in type 2 but surely I disagree with the core and their driving force.

    Most of the points I highlighted could be a sign of extroversion or just a general upbeat nature.

    resentful if their generosity is not appreciated or reciprocated.
    And this. Yeah I’ll get pissed if I am not appreciated but that could be seen in most types and rightly so..
    .

  10. #80
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    So it's between head centre and e9.
    .

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