User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 96

  1. #31
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Whatever, I don't care anymore. I feel like this is all made up, anyway.
    'Made-up' as opposed to... what? Divinely handed-down 10 Commandments style? (<-actually there's a rumor floating around that that may have been made-up too but you seriously can't believe everything you see, hear and/or read these days.)

    Okay, honestly, I didn't want to be the person to have to tell you this but you're so "young Ne quick" that it's difficult hiding the truth from you... And so yes, you've got 'us'... alright? Are you happy now? Personality theory in all its forms is a human construct. (Whatever man...just don't ruin it all for the believers and the young folk okay?)



    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    @Starry
    Your efforts are not in vain. I will succeed in this job, even if I feel like a stupid little kid. You have a special place in my heart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    The real issue is endless mistakes that almost have me fired. Can't keep any shit straight. I'm just a drain on society and wish I could fall asleep and never wake up. I'm a waste of space and resources.

    I read a while back in some social scientific journal that while the ENFP can take pride in dominating the ADD, ADHD & generalized anxiety disorder communities... rarely do we receive an actual mood disorder diagnoses. And yet we've somehow earned for ourselves that reputation it seems and I can't think of why...


    The first quote above is from 8/3... a point that I told you I could tell 'positive outlook' had kicked back in. That is "the forgetting" I've been telling you about in a million different ways 'til I'm blue in the face.

    The more problems you have...the more dangerous to your overall wellbeing "the forgetting" becomes. Because you are unable to focus on your problems and pain long enough for you to even remember they exist let alone address them in a meaningful way... you are falling back on "the magic." You are allowing positive outlook to take hold of you again. And positive outlook says "if I ignore my problems they will go away" and "everything is good...I'm good...and something good in the external world will make my life great in the very near future." <-This is until your forgotten challenges cause something challenging to happen in the external world and you become so very angry and insulted to have been awakened from your positive stupor by "the remembering."

  2. #32
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't think this is enough information to determine what he is. My best guess is that he's either a 1w9 So/Sp or a 3w4 Sp/So. The reason being is that So can have 3-like qualities, but a Social 3 is like a uber 3, which would obvious as hell and not something you would miss. If he were a Social 1 (as well as being a ENTJ BTW) he could mimic certain 3 traits without that being his core type. He could also be a Self-pres 3 which would temper some of the 3 traits and make him mistype as a 1.

    The best way to think about the dominant instinct is as if it's a lacking that has to be counteracted:

    - Social firsts naturally struggle to define the standards and practices of social interactions, connections, expectations, and positions. They have to establish, affirm and/or protect their relational aspect of their lives in order to feel secure.
    - Self-pres firsts naturally struggle to define their personal boundaries and validate their sense of identity and existence. They have to establish, affirm, and/or protect their body and selfhood in order to feel secure.

    As for Sp/So vs So/Sp stackings, it's tricky. I think Sp/So is so little talked about to be fully understood and So/Sp is often misrepresented. I think that people that are Sp/So can be surprising warm and outgoing, and So/Sp can be more reserved than expected. To (speculatively) compare the two:

    - Sp/So is perhaps less adaptable to different social situations, and more plainly idiosyncratic in manner (something they may play up for humorous effect or charm). They're slightly more grounded, practical, frank, direct, deferential, disarming, observant and focussed on the fundamentals in life. Perhaps no more reserved than So/Sp but are better at disguising the fact they're concealing certain things.
    - So/Sp is less personal and distinct in expression and tend to be more elusive in manner. They lean toward being slightly more idealistic/aspirational, cerebral, receptive, tactful, oblique, insightful and expansive in thought. Their tendency to shift and flex to the situation, the breadth with which they apply themselves, as well as their pleasant, inoffensive demeanour can make them hard to pin down.

    If you watch House of Cards, I think Frank Underwood is a good (well, an apt) example of a So/Sp, and Claire Underwood is a good example of a Sp/So. Take no note of their general personalities and the fact that they're both cold, callous, machiavellian bastards - I only mean to compare their the manner with which they engage with others and pursue their goals in life. They both have a diffuse energy about them, but it manifests in different ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Glad to help.

    Just to add some clarifications...

    3s are part of the identity triad of the Enneagram, so you have to be careful not to mix up those aspects with the instincts. I said that Sp tempers 3-ness in some ways (which it does), but it can be confused with other 3 traits. One thing I know about Self-pres 3s is that their vanity is lack of vanity. In other words their proud and ostentatious about their lack of pride - they may show off about the fact they don't care what others think.

    Also be aware that when I say that Sp is wrapped up in body and identity I mean that in a very broad sense. It's a fear that others or the environment will undermine their poorly delineated sense of self. Depending on the person, they may be trying to safeguard their: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality etc. This means that they're all the more focussed on drawing a line in the sand and saying, "I'm THIS and not THAT" - it makes them much louder when it comes to defining themselves and their 'separateness'. Social-firsts OTOH often resist doing this (even the So/Sp stacking) because it gets in the way of their ability to harmonize, recognise and respond to dynamics, and to a degree, be everything to everyone. This means they end up transcending clear definitions and limitations of who they are, where they belong, what they're receptive to etc - they're broad and open in nature. Personally, I like being surprising and seemingly contradictory in nature; it keeps others on their toes and shows them I'm more than one thing.

    BTW this site has a pretty good description of type and stacking. Example:
    Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.


    Thissssss is me.

    The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.

    However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.

    Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ? @Elfboy helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).

    So/sp seems so polite (too socially conscious to offend) which is one of the reasons i cant relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass. I am not cool as him though and not even half as cunning.
    .

  3. #33
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.

    Thissssss is me.

    The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.

    However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.
    It's easier to understand if you read my more comprehensive explanation (I was trying to shorten the post). This is something I wrote from another thread:

    Self-pres instinct
    Driven by a sense of the fragility of one's own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by external elements they believe may destabilise their ability to flourish. They fear that outside forces may erode their 'separateness' and gradually consume them. Their sense of body and identity is so indefinite they feel compelled to draw strong personal boundaries in which to protect themselves. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them. These may include: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, strength/power, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, safety, individuality etc. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.
    The point is that the instincts reflect a struggle with certain underlying issues and the inherent need to compensate for them. Sexual-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a sense of intimacy/connection/gratification. Social-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a grip on social dynamics/structures/positions. Self-pres-firsts struggle to establish and maintain the bounds of their body/existence/identity. Each then sets out to study and conquer the seat of their discomfort, thereby gaining control over it and inadvertently becoming an expert in that field in the process. Imagine it like a battered wife who becomes highly skilled at reading body language, tone of voice and facial cues in order to potentially avoid and/or placate her husband's wrath pre-emptively. She hasn't removed the threat and isn't necessarily good at dealing with it; she's just become highly attuned to nature of that threat as a matter of survival.

    Look at a Sx-first and how they often talk about not being able to form connections with people; that's because they're not as naturally capable at it as Sp and So firsts, which in turn, leads to overcompensating for it. However people get it around the wrong way when they think about the instincts. We think of Sx-firsts obsessing over connection as a sign that they're inherently skilled at it, but if that were true, it would be effortless for them and not a constant source of stress and concern. They have to work at it and focus a large part of their energy on it; they must be constant gardeners in order to feel on top of it all.

    Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ?Elfboy helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).
    Do you mean Sp/So? They can be rather expressive - Jennifer Lawrence is one. Claire Underwood is an introvert so the energy will manifest in a different way. The key to Sx-lasts types is diffuse energy not lack of expression.

    And I think Claire Underwood is a INTJ 8w9 Sp/So. Tywin Lannister is a ENTJ 8w7 (too overtly aggressive to be a 8w9) and probably Sx/Sp... or possibly Sp/Sx.

    So/sp seems so polite which is one of the reasons i xanr relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass.
    Politeness is not a necessary trait of So/Sp, however adaptability and awareness of social forces/trends/atmosphere are. Frank is skilled at adapting to situations and people; finding just the right angle to work people over and get them to do what he wants. He has a different mask for every person he is with, aside from a trusted few who get to see the real him. He is highly aware of the shifting dynamics within and between people, and being a skilled strategist and a persuasive speaker (ie. an ENTJ), he knows how to use them to his advantage.

    I go back and forth with Frank on enneatype: he's either a 3w2 or a 8w7. It can be tough with ENTJs to know the difference, because there is crossover in traits with both types. I guess I would say 3w2...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #34
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Sk needed to borrow this from another thread. Feel free to ignore the rest.
    Thissssss is me.
    The highlighted. Strange i don't see how it could relate to sp. It makes sense for so s but what she had said about so s explain why it's not so. Sps i had no idea and dont know why will be concerned about all that.
    However i dont know whether mine is sp related or some other reason.
    Sp/sp sounds too hardworking and unexpressive to be me though. Definitely DONT relate to sp/so characters such as claire (i think claire is a 3w4 ENTJ) and tywin lannister (8w9 entj sp/so ? @Elfboy helped with the enneagram and instinctual variant).
    So/sp seems so polite (too socially conscious to offend) which is one of the reasons i cant relate. Frank underwood (entj 8w7 ?) Doesnt seem polite at all and i can relate to his some lesser qualities like shake your hand while i have to and kick your ass. I am not cool as him though and not even half as cunning.
    actually, Tywin is 1w9 So/Sp and Frank Underwood is 8w9 Sp/So
    btw, who is Claire?

    PS: you're looking at the subtypes too separately. it's better to view them holistically (ie: Sp 7, Sx 6, So 2 etc)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #35
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    I am going to read this thread now, to learn all there is to learn about the boy named riva. Soon I shall know his soul.

  6. #36
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    Thank you SK for your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It's easier to understand if you read my more comprehensive explanation (I was trying to shorten the post). This is something I wrote from another thread:

    Self-pres instinct
    Driven by a sense of the fragility of one's own existence. Sp-doms are highly threatened by external elements they believe may destabilise their ability to flourish. They fear that outside forces may erode their 'separateness' and gradually consume them. Their sense of body and identity is so indefinite they feel compelled to draw strong personal boundaries in which to protect themselves. They feel the need to actively fight to retain the cornerstones that are so precious to them. These may include: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, strength/power, reliability, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, safety, individuality etc. Sp-doms seek to establish an environment of personal security and selfhood, which will enable them to thrive.
    Except for the highlighted this doesn't sound like me; but I get it that overall this is not me. Shit I was totally sold on being an SP dom. Now I am not sure again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    The point is that the instincts reflect a struggle with certain underlying issues and the inherent need to compensate for them. Sexual-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a sense of intimacy/connection/gratification. Social-firsts struggle to establish and maintain a grip on social dynamics/structures/positions. Self-pres-firsts struggle to establish and maintain the bounds of their body/existence/identity. Each then sets out to study and conquer the seat of their discomfort, thereby gaining control over it and inadvertently becoming an expert in that field in the process. Imagine it like a battered wife who becomes highly skilled at reading body language, tone of voice and facial cues in order to potentially avoid and/or placate her husband's wrath pre-emptively. She hasn't removed the threat and isn't necessarily good at dealing with it; she's just become highly attuned to nature of that threat as a matter of survival.
    This I didn't know - the part it says that people are trying to compensate for it. Mastering variants in the process makes absolute sense. Thank you for this. I can vaguely remember you mentioning this theory sometime ago. Is this fairly established? Even if it isn't, you do make quite a lot of sense. I simply thought the dom as a need. But hey, needs arises from wants, and people want to have what they think they don't have. So this theory makes quite a lot of sense.

    But,

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Look at a Sx-first and how they often talk about not being able to form connections with people; that's because they're not as naturally capable at it as Sp and So firsts, which in turn, leads to overcompensating for it. However people get it around the wrong way when they think about the instincts. We think of Sx-firsts obsessing over connection as a sign that they're inherently skilled at it, but if that were true, it would be effortless for them and not a constant source of stress and concern. They have to work at it and focus a large part of their energy on it; they must be constant gardeners in order to feel on top of it all.
    Well in a way the 'but' above doesn't have a place since I agreed with the para above this, however, I don't agree with the highlighted part. I've seen plenty of SX 3rds complain above having to adhere to mating cues..... Ooooo mating cues noticing/handling could be SO, or to put it better, not limited to SX couldn't it?

    Also both the people that comes to my mind who were SX 3rds who complain about 'it' are ITJs. They give sexless vibes. Does it mean they are not capable of' it' or are they not interested in emitting 'it'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Do you mean Sp/So? They can be rather expressive - Jennifer Lawrence is one. Claire Underwood is an introvert so the energy will manifest in a different way. The key to Sx-lasts types is diffuse energy not lack of expression.
    The sx 3rds I mentioned are introverts, which is probably why they emit 'constant' diffused energy vibes. Comparing them to me is probably a stupid idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Politeness is not a necessary trait of So/Sp, however adaptability and awareness of social forces/trends/atmosphere are. Frank is skilled at adapting to situations and people; finding just the right angle to work people over and get them to do what he wants. He has a different mask for every person he is with, aside from a trusted few who get to see the real him. He is highly aware of the shifting dynamics within and between people, and being a skilled strategist and a persuasive speaker (ie. an ENTJ), he knows how to use them to his advantage.
    Yeah I guess. The politeness I felt was probably a result of the SO doms not wanting damage the ongoing harmony/not 'needing' any change. They probably could have acted aggressively if they wanted change. Didn't think much of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    And I think Claire Underwood is a INTJ 8w9 Sp/So. Tywin Lannister is a ENTJ 8w7 (too overtly aggressive to be a 8w9) and probably Sx/Sp... or possibly Sp/Sx.

    I go back and forth with Frank on enneatype: he's either a 3w2 or a 8w7. It can be tough with ENTJs to know the difference, because there is crossover in traits with both types. I guess I would say 3w2...
    Going by what you've said in the first para I've quoted Tywin screams SP dom. He isn't overtly aggressively at all - but then again that's my point of view. 8w7s have a lot of 7nish vibes with a bigger clubs. Tywin is like a classic volcano. He is overtly aggressive because he can afford to be. He seems like he is 'trying hard' to control his anger too .

    Claire is like plastic, which is classic trait I associate with 3w4s - but then again - literally again - it's simply my point of view. She seems more prestige concerned than power concerned. The business venture she has also seem to be her attempt to be included in a role she believes has its recognitions rather that a way to genuinely take control of something that has to be controlled.

    Frank, well It though classic 8w7 but you could be right. I am glad you didn't think 'say' he was ENTP. A lot of people in the relevant thread has typed him as an ENFJ or ENTP, because manipulation is always and only Fe they thought. WTF I screamed when reading them.

    House of Cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    actually, Tywin is 1w9 So/Sp and Frank Underwood is 8w9 Sp/So
    btw, who is Claire?

    PS: you're looking at the subtypes too separately. it's better to view them holistically (ie: Sp 7, Sx 6, So 2 etc)
    Dude -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @Riva
    Tywin is a clear ENTJ 8w9, probably Sp/So (possibly So/Sp, but Sp/So seems more likely). despite how he may come across, he is actually a very principled man, which is probably why you thought 1 a strong possibility, but his principles are 8-ish rather than 1-ish. you see, he has little interest in justice or fairness. his view of reality is largely amoral and his principles are mostly geared toward looking out for "his people". as if he's saying "look out for yourself and look out for your own. nothing else matters".
    he is not a 5 because he is clearly a gut type (notice the instinctual, paternal energy. 5s do not have this). his thinking is driven by pragmatism and power rather than the intellectually dominated and more timid thinking of a 5.

    his 8 tendencies are clear in the clip below including
    1) doing what needs to be done, whether or not it's "clean" or "honorable"
    2) belief that fear must be instilled in others to command respect
    3) belief that the world is an unfair, unjust place
    4) looking out for "his people"
    5) reference to predators (8s often use analogies relating to wild animals, particularly predators, which they view as similar to themselves)
    6) a keen eye for weakness. he points out Jamie's immediately
    7) a mindset of "survival above all" (which is especially true of Self Preservation 8s)
    .

  7. #37
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Except for the highlighted this doesn't sound like me; but I get it that overall this is not me. Shit I was totally sold on being an SP dom. Now I am not sure again.
    Hmm. Do you feel the need to protect these things or are they just stuff you value?

    This I didn't know - the part it says that people are trying to compensate for it. Mastering variants in the process makes absolute sense. Thank you for this. I can vaguely remember you mentioning this theory sometime ago. Is this fairly established? Even if it isn't, you do make quite a lot of sense. I simply thought the dom as a need. But hey, needs arises from wants, and people want to have what they think they don't have. So this theory makes quite a lot of sense.
    It is my own theory of it, but I feel like it's implied in the literature and matches the manifestations of type I've seen. I don't know if there's enough discussion about how we're meant to approach the instincts and what they're mean to be, even by quality enneagram professionals. This just helps me to make sense of it.

    Well in a way the 'but' above doesn't have a place since I agreed with the para above this, however, I don't agree with the highlighted part. I've seen plenty of SX 3rds complain above having to adhere to mating cues..... Ooooo mating cues noticing/handling could be SO, or to put it better, not limited to SX couldn't it?
    Yeah, absolutely. Some of the issues can cross over but what it comes down to is the underlying approach to them. People can have identity issues without being Sp, for example. Also, So-firsts are more likely to focus on mating cues to begin with. They are sensitive to the rituals and it cause a great deal of stress for them, which can lead them to despise it all. This is different to the Sx-definition of forming "connections", though.

    What I also meant to address with that highlighted portion, is that I've noticed that with Sp and So-firsts (or perhaps it's just Sx-lasts - I'm not sure on this theory yet), there's less of a sense of fragility in their bonds. I don't 'connect'* easily with people (for different reasons to Sx-firsts) but when I do feel close to someone I don't feel stress over it or the need to actively preserve it. I assume that the relationship stays the same even when there's separation or lack of contact. From what I've gathered, this is not the case for Sx-firsts; they need more relationship maintenance to feel secure in it. You're also more likely to find Sx-firsts exhibiting jealousy, which is related in cause. What I'm getting at is that Sp and So have a lower threshold of needs when it comes to 'connection' compared with Sx, therefore you could reasonably say they are more proficient at managing it.

    *there's some complications with using this word because it can mean different things to different people. Even I mean it in two different ways here.

    The sx 3rds I mentioned are introverts, which is probably why they emit 'constant' diffused energy vibes. Comparing them to me is probably a stupid idea.
    Yeah, it can be tough separating the instincts from other type related stuff. I have to really think about it each time myself. You've got to look at a broad group of those with the same stacking: Es and Is, Js and Ps, Te users and Fe users. It's easy to confuse unrelated similarities and differences for instincts.

    Yeah I guess. The politeness I felt was probably a result of the SO doms not wanting damage the ongoing harmony/not 'needing' any change. They probably could have acted aggressively if they wanted change. Didn't think much of it.
    Exactly. You are right that that there can often be formality with So-firsts (particuarly with So/Sp), which perhaps sounds a lot like politeness to others. And if you look at Frank Underwood, he is very polite and agreeable outwardly - it's only because we, the audience, know that it's a manipulative act that it seems devious.

    Going by what you've said in the first para I've quoted Tywin screams SP dom. He isn't overtly aggressively at all - but then again that's my point of view. 8w7s have a lot of 7nish vibes with a bigger clubs. Tywin is like a classic volcano. He is overtly aggressive because he can afford to be. He seems like he is 'trying hard' to control his anger too .
    I don't know, he seems too intense and proactive to be a 8w9. I guess he could be and the intensity comes from his being a ENTJ and a 8. I suppose if you look at his actions objectively it's more like "defense is the best offense", which is more of a 8w9 thing. However, I'm not convinced he is calm enough to have a 9 wing. And you are right about how he seems to repress his anger, which would fit with Sp.

    So maybe 8w7 or 8w9 Sp/Sx? I might have to think more on it.

    Claire is like plastic, which is classic trait I associate with 3w4s - but then again - literally again - it's simply my point of view. She seems more prestige concerned than power concerned. The business venture she has also seem to be her attempt to be included in a role she believes has its recognitions rather that a way to genuinely take control of something that has to be controlled.
    Yeah she is. She's very cold and distant. I don't think she's ambitious enough to be a 3. She doesn't seem concerned enough about forwarding herself, and is just being supportive of Frank in that. She has personal goals, but they aren't about gaining success for herself or making her mark; they're about changing and improving things that matter to her. It seems more important to her to have control over the plan of action than it is for her to be in the spotlight or to earn respect/admiration. Her notoriety is just a means to an end to her.

    Have you read this description of 8w9? It seems so like her to me:

    8w9s tend to be more reserved and self-contained. They are more modest and friendly. They aren't as megalomanic as 8w7s. They are less likely to overestimate themselves. They speak in simpler language and seem less "heady" than 8w7s with their more drawn out cadence. They don't understand the eight-winged-seven self-destructive behaviour. They are more grounded and unmovable but they can get aggressive in a hurry if provoked. They are natural defenders who focus on solidifying structures as opposed to tearing them down and starting anew.

    8w9s believe the best defense is to be well-fortified. They don't believe in preemptive aggression. They wait for the enemy to strike first and are natural counterpunchers. Their style of dominance is to endure whatever you throw at them and gradually steamroll you. They delight in pushing their weight against you and making you feel their physical presence. They are more "I am unbreakable and will steadily wear you down".
    And here's a description of a 8 Sp/So:

    Self-pres/Social

    Self-pres/soc Eights are very self reliant. They are frequently entrepreneurial; the self-preservational instinct combines with the social to make a subtype that is very focused on the external environment. Self-pres/social Eights are the least dramatic of type Eight. They are “no nonsense” types. They can be introverted, especially when the Nine wing is dominant. But, even though they are often quiet, they are very much in control of themselves and their direction in life. On the high side, they make great business owners. They show a sense of fairness and have an instinctual drive to do what needs to be done. They know how to make decisions and aren’t afraid to implement them. Because the sexual instinct is last, they can sometimes be seen as difficult to warm up to. They can be seen as “all business.”

    This type has a tendency to see relationships as somehow “getting in the way.” While they may desire a close romantic relationship, they don’t want it if it is at the expense of their self-pres needs. They can appear Five-like in this way, as they are concerned about the demands a relationship might make on their time.
    Frank, well It though classic 8w7 but you could be right. I am glad you didn't think 'say' he was ENTP. A lot of people in the relevant thread has typed him as an ENFJ or ENTP, because manipulation is always and only Fe they thought. WTF I screamed when reading them.
    Frank is more ENTJ-y than any fictional example I have ever come across. I haven't a clue how anyone could think he was anything else.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #38
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    I feel that I am making the process of typing myself too complicated by agreeing yet disagreeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Hmm. Do you feel the need to protect these things or are they just stuff you value?
    Definitely stuff they value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    It is my own theory of it, but I feel like it's implied in the literature and matches the manifestations of type I've seen. I don't know if there's enough discussion about how we're meant to approach the instincts and what they're mean to be, even by quality enneagram professionals. This just helps me to make sense of it.
    It is believable. I also remember you saying that the primary function is there to support/supply the secondary function. So/Sp - So is used to accomplish Sp needs or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah, absolutely. Some of the issues can cross over but what it comes down to is the underlying approach to them. People can have identity issues without being Sp, for example. Also, So-firsts are more likely to focus on mating cues to begin with. They are sensitive to the rituals and it cause a great deal of stress for them, which can lead them to despise it all. This is different to the Sx-definition of forming "connections", though.

    What I also meant to address with that highlighted portion, is that I've noticed that with Sp and So-firsts (or perhaps it's just Sx-lasts - I'm not sure on this theory yet), there's less of a sense of fragility in their bonds. I don't 'connect'* easily with people (for different reasons to Sx-firsts) but when I do feel close to someone I don't feel stress over it or the need to actively preserve it. I assume that the relationship stays the same even when there's separation or lack of contact. From what I've gathered, this is not the case for Sx-firsts; they need more relationship maintenance to feel secure in it. You're also more likely to find Sx-firsts exhibiting jealousy, which is related in cause. What I'm getting at is that Sp and So have a lower threshold of needs when it comes to 'connection' compared with Sx, therefore you could reasonably say they are more proficient at managing it.

    *there's some complications with using this word because it can mean different things to different people. Even I mean it in two different ways here.
    Well I don't feel a need to closely preserve it, but I do feel jealous from time to time. I think it's more strategic - where I stand and what influence I have over them rather than a genuine need to bond. But I do feel jealous - like I said - from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah, it can be tough separating the instincts from other type related stuff. I have to really think about it each time myself. You've got to look at a broad group of those with the same stacking: Es and Is, Js and Ps, Te users and Fe users. It's easy to confuse unrelated similarities and differences for instincts.

    Exactly. You are right that that there can often be formality with So-firsts (particuarly with So/Sp), which perhaps sounds a lot like politeness to others. And if you look at Frank Underwood, he is very polite and agreeable outwardly - it's only because we, the audience, know that it's a manipulative act that it seems devious.
    True. Hard to realize how hostile Frank is if not the series being focused on him. He has been openly hostile when he has to be plenty. However all those instances were either the lack of consequences, use of intimidation etc. I always though he was SO last for those reasons. I guess he acts 'that' way because he understands the footing he has and the SO consequences he will have, rather than a general disregard for SO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah she is. She's very cold and distant. I don't think she's ambitious enough to be a 3. She doesn't seem concerned enough about forwarding herself, and is just being supportive of Frank in that. She has personal goals, but they aren't about gaining success for herself or making her mark; they're about changing and improving things that matter to her. It seems more important to her to have control over the plan of action than it is for her to be in the spotlight or to earn respect/admiration. Her notoriety is just a means to an end to her.

    Have you read this description of 8w9? It seems so like her to me:

    And here's a description of a 8 Sp/So:
    Dammit I was absolutely convinced she was a 3w4.

    I will move these topics to the relevant threads later. Don't want these to go unnoticed.
    .

  9. #39
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Definitely stuff they value.
    Then perhaps we could venture saying you're not a Sp-first.

    If I had to take a wild stab at typing, I would say you strike me as a Sx-last, probably leaning towards a So/Sp.

    It is believable. I also remember you saying that the primary function is there to support/supply the secondary function. So/Sp - So is used to accomplish Sp needs or something.
    Yeah, that's another theory, but it's been semi-established by others. The secondary instinct is used to facilitate a sense of security for the primary instinct.

    Well I don't feel a need to closely preserve it, but I do feel jealous from time to time. I think it's more strategic - where I stand and what influence I have over them rather than a genuine need to bond. But I do feel jealous - like I said - from time to time.
    Yes, but just be aware that this stuff is not that literal. It's not like Sx-firsts are conscious of a need to feel bonded when they feel jealous. They just (perhaps unconsciously) experience a sense of instability in the relationship. They may simply feel that when they're away from that person that their relationship is threatened.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #40
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Can't wait for the unrest to begin? Haha you are right in your assumption that i am not so, though i do seek (as anyone) excitement. I wonder whether @Coriolis relates to this? Coriolis do you wake up in the morning and expect to have an 'awfully bit adventure' full of fun and a lot of turmoil too; like peter pan? (Ps - I've never read Peter Pan, so I don't know whether that's what he want.)
    I think of my life more in terms of accomplishment than either adventure or excitement. I wake up in the morning thinking of all the things I want to get done in the day, and how I plan to go about them. Certain things I look forward to as a challenge, or a learning experience, or an opportunity to engage with people I enjoy and respect. Other things are mere drudgery to get out of the way in minimal time.

    Excitement is often a welcome by-product of an especially productive or instructive day. I might solve a particularly troublesome problem, or get everything in the lab to work just right, or do an activity with school kids and have alot of eager learners with great questions in the group. Adventure comes when something unexpected and significant happens. Whether good or bad, if I learn something in the end and have a generally decent outcome, I consider the experience worthwhile.

    (Sorry no help on identifying your enneatype, but you called me out on this question, so here's my answer.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 92
    Last Post: 08-21-2016, 02:56 PM
  2. [E8] An INFP with an enneagram 8?
    By Bubbles in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 07-12-2016, 11:36 PM
  3. help me with my enneagram type?!
    By 475617 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-11-2013, 08:51 AM
  4. How do you decide on an enneagram type?
    By Silveresque in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 12-01-2011, 02:29 PM
  5. Can anyone help me with my Enneagram type?
    By faultyideal in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-16-2009, 08:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO