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  1. #21
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    @riva
    I see you tagged me but I'm not good at typing without extensive observation and interaction - but I'll let you know over time if anything comes to mind.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  2. #22
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Being sp/sx or sx/sp though...it's like having stood at the beginning of your life and said..."Sure can't wait for my lifetime of 'unrest' to begin."

    Not saying the other dom/aux combinations don't have their challenges... I'm just saying I don't recognize in you this particular brand of 'torn'. A kind of torn that 'positive outlook' can't even conceal/erase in its entirety. So, a 7 or 9 with this dom/aux combo... they may present with a genuinely optimistic mood and yet you can still feel the inner conflict... Hear the churning of their insides.

    You otoh seem quite consistently good-natured imo. Yes, I admire how honest and straightforward you are. I know you are authentic in everything you say and do...refusing to sacrafice your truth for the sake of social harmony. But unless I'm completely missing something...and with how distinct this particular struggle is I really don't think I am...I see no conflict in you. You seem able to let things go. This to me is social dominance.

    I'm currently at a place where the internet connection is very weak so I will have to say what I want in smaller bites me thinks.
    No inner conflict for So-Dom? Have you gone insane?
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

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    -Magic Qwan

  3. #23
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Did my last post influence you to come to this conclusion?

    Definitely

    But I had also been thinking about it since I read the thread earlier before work. This: "Yes i avoid conflict but never at the expense of my personal space." is soooo 9w8. There are other things you've said... The energy level... Not jumping into things... That "belief you need to change as a person to function" bit you wrote strikes me as particularly Sp 9. I have two in the family... So... It's something familiar to me

    It seems to me like you have a little "edge" about you, but 7w6 seems too mental for you and 7w8 seems too... high volume? The only 7 types I could maybe see would be 7w8 so/sp or 7w8 sp/so. Still, if you are a 7, then you're probably pouring more 7ness into real life than you are pouring into the board, because you don't strike me on here as heady and scattered like most 7s. And while you have a little "spice" that I could see as sx, I don't get the sx yearning quality from you. So I'm more inclined to think your "spice" is ENT + w8, with a sp-first candor.

    I could see 9w8 sp/so... Being sexual last does not mean you don't prefer one on one engagement... Actually a recent study showed that the vast majority of people prefer one on one...

    How quickly do you open up in terms of intimacy? And how deeply?

  4. #24
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Definitely

    But I had also been thinking about it since I read the thread earlier before work. This: "Yes i avoid conflict but never at the expense of my personal space." is soooo 9w8. There are other things you've said... The energy level... Not jumping into things... That "belief you need to change as a person to function" bit you wrote strikes me as particularly Sp 9. I have two in the family... So... It's something familiar to me
    haha cool.

    You see I wouldn't exactly call myself a peaceful person who avoids conflicts and arguments either. To many onlookers I might come across as 'socially' persuasive. I am indeed persuasive in my opinions and readily disagree with others and seldom agree with another for the sake of social harmony. However I am amazingly apt at disagreeing with others without spilling blood and often times people befriend me after arguing with them. I seldom leave an argument with spilt blood. (Of course with ass holes, idiots and bullies I don't expect any harmony, so my last sentence wouldn't apply to my arguments with them.)

    The only times I constantly back down from an argument (actually avoid) is with my ESTP 6w7 counterphobic sister. She has the remarkable ability to turn even a normal conversation - lets say talking about X-Men, which is a franchise we both love - to a heated personal argument. (But in all fairness to her, I sometimes see that she holds back an argument initiated by herselfby pressing a smile and even taking a small jab at herself - which is probably e6 integrating into e9? However the moment you see her do this you have to quickly drop the conversation with her, lest she immediately gets offended and take it seriously.)

    Regarding not jumping into things, the moment I make acquaintance and befriends a group (which I do quite fast) I can quickly start jumping into things, mainly because I am able to use my wits to counter any short comings of mine. However, the pressure as not to jump without being competent overwhelms me sometimes to a level that I feel annoyed at myself for it. I think deep inside I don't want to disturb 'the situation' with my incompetence. Also once I make my mind to take part in it, with or without finding my wits, I wouldn't back down from others' comments - atleast I like to think this more so than I have noticed it in me, though indeed I have noticed it in me in those few occasions I have faced with such scenarios .

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    It seems to me like you have a little "edge" about you, but 7w6 seems too mental for you and 7w8 seems too... high volume? The only 7 types I could maybe see would be 7w8 so/sp or 7w8 sp/so. Still, if you are a 7, then you're probably pouring more 7ness into real life than you are pouring into the board, because you don't strike me on here as heady and scattered like most 7s. And while you have a little "spice" that I could see as sx, I don't get the sx yearning quality from you. So I'm more inclined to think your "spice" is ENT + w8, with a sp-first candor.
    Yes I think high volume is the word. Dammit I don't sound mental? Grrr...

    I think I have more 7ness here in the board than in real life. This is especially noticeable in me when comparing myself to some ESTP women I know in my life. Energetic go getters who jump into things I see in them, which I am not exactly not, but more so as I've grown up and learned than something which is natural to me. However I am indeed a go getter comparatively. It could be as I've said, something I've learned, therefore has ended up becoming a part of my personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I could see 9w8 sp/so... Being sexual last does not mean you don't prefer one on one engagement... Actually a recent study showed that the vast majority of people prefer one on one...

    How quickly do you open up in terms of intimacy? And how deeply?
    Did you mean emotional intimacy?

    Before I start it should be stated that I am 26 and is currently avoiding serious relationships due to a very specific reason.

    I am glad that the gorgeous, socially compatible, likeable/lovable (to my eyes of course) girls I've met in the last couple of years/months have been/are in relationships, so I don't have to feel regret for not pursuing them . However there was one girl that I met a couple of years ago (before I made up my mind not to be in a serious relationship due to that specific reason) who was single and compatible but my attempts to get to know her and date her never worked out and I still think about that girl like an idiot. So I am not entirely a cold, calculating creature with 100% control over my emotions.

    I have been quite distant and is extremely calculating in my emotional bonds in the relationships I've been in. However, none of the relationships I've been in have met my compatibility standards, therefore have ended up without me even trying to make bonds. I've been in, sought and still actively seek sexual relationships. However, I have been quite careful as not to 'hook up' with women who might love me/assume a serious relationship or 'bond with' them since I am only looking for sex. Those are the very few instances in my life that constantly remind me that I have genuine ethics.
    .

  5. #25
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    haha cool.

    You see I wouldn't exactly call myself a peaceful person who avoids conflicts and arguments either. To many onlookers I might come across as 'socially' persuasive. I am indeed persuasive in my opinions and readily disagree with others and seldom agree with another for the sake of social harmony. However I am amazingly apt at disagreeing with others without spilling blood and often times people befriend me after arguing with them. I seldom leave an argument with spilt blood. (Of course with ass holes, idiots and bullies I don't expect any harmony, so my last sentence wouldn't apply to my arguments with them.)

    The only times I constantly back down from an argument (actually avoid) is with my ESTP 6w7 counterphobic sister. She has the remarkable ability to turn even a normal conversation - lets say talking about X-Men, which is a franchise we both love - to a heated personal argument. (But in all fairness to her, I sometimes see that she holds back an argument initiated by herselfby pressing a smile and even taking a small jab at herself - which is probably e6 integrating into e9? However the moment you see her do this you have to quickly drop the conversation with her, lest she immediately gets offended and take it seriously.)

    Regarding not jumping into things, the moment I make acquaintance and befriends a group (which I do quite fast) I can quickly start jumping into things, mainly because I am able to use my wits to counter any short comings of mine. However, the pressure as not to jump without being competent overwhelms me sometimes to a level that I feel annoyed at myself for it. I think deep inside I don't want to disturb 'the situation' with my incompetence. Also once I make my mind to take part in it, with or without finding my wits, I wouldn't back down from others' comments - atleast I like to think this more so than I have noticed it in me, though indeed I have noticed it in me in those few occasions I have faced with such scenarios .
    This is interesting, thanks for sharing so much


    Yes I think high volume is the word. Dammit I don't sound mental? Grrr...
    Glad high volume works, I wen through a number of words before I thought of that one! And trust me when I say it's a great thing to not sound mental, in the head triad way. It sucks. It's too much, too fast, too complex. It gets twisted inside and you can't find your way out. You spend ages in your head and you create monsters entirely of your own making - like you see with your sister. I am happy for you if you are not a head type. You do still strike me as an "intellectual" NT, ENTP. I just mean that you seem intelligent enough not to get yourself tied up in mental knots.

    Would you mind talking more about the differences between you and your sister? I think it could be illuminating typewise.

    I think I have more 7ness here in the board than in real life. This is especially noticeable in me when comparing myself to some ESTP women I know in my life. Energetic go getters who jump into things I see in them, which I am not exactly not, but more so as I've grown up and learned than something which is natural to me. However I am indeed a go getter comparatively. It could be as I've said, something I've learned, therefore has ended up becoming a part of my personality.



    Did you mean emotional intimacy?

    Before I start it should be stated that I am 26 and is currently avoiding serious relationships due to a very specific reason.

    I am glad that the gorgeous, socially compatible, likeable/lovable (to my eyes of course) girls I've met in the last couple of years/months have been/are in relationships, so I don't have to feel regret for not pursuing them . However there was one girl that I met a couple of years ago (before I made up my mind not to be in a serious relationship due to that specific reason) who was single and compatible but my attempts to get to know her and date her never worked out and I still think about that girl like an idiot. So I am not entirely a cold, calculating creature with 100% control over my emotions.

    I have been quite distant and is extremely calculating in my emotional bonds in the relationships I've been in. However, none of the relationships I've been in have met my compatibility standards, therefore have ended up without me even trying to make bonds. I've been in, sought and still actively seek sexual relationships. However, I have been quite careful as not to 'hook up' with women who might love me/assume a serious relationship or 'bond with' them since I am only looking for sex. Those are the very few instances in my life that constantly remind me that I have genuine ethics.
    Really interesting. I was curious as to the level of intimacy you engage quickly/deeply, because it relates to where sx is in your stacking. Sx first will initiate and plunge to depth as a general preference, sx second will "dip" here and there with certain people, and sx-last will tend to hold back as a general preference. What you have described sounds like sp is higher in your stacking than sx, and I doubt that you are sexual dominant. Do you have any thoughts on your instinctual stacking?

  6. #26
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    ^

    Thank you so much ofr your feedback . Often they are uniquely well informed, though sometimes they could successfully leave me/the masses utterly doubtful about my/their perceptions .
    Thanks riva.


    Can't wait for the unrest to begin? Haha you are right in your assumption that i am not so, though i do seek (as anyone) excitement. I wonder whether @Coriolis relates to this? Coriolis do you wake up in the morning and expect to have an 'awfully bit adventure' full of fun and a lot of turmoil too; like peter pan? (Ps - I've never read Peter Pan, so I don't know whether that's what he want.)
    ^^I think my use of 'unrest' when describing sx/sp & sp/sx may have confused you here haha. I know that many of the general e7 descriptions which often have a Se 7w8 bias can conjure up images of a high-energy individual that has no time for sleep. That's not the kind of 'unrest' I'm talking about.

    These two in the dom/aux can feel like they are in direct opposition to each other... creating an individual that often feels conflicted. 'Unrest' was a reference to that state. Imagine being in a car...and you simultaneously have the accelerator and the brake floored... (where are you goin riva?) That image should help you understand my meaning when I say 'torn.'


    I definitely wouldn't use the word torn to describe myself. What is this inner conflict you talk of? Lack of confidence? I do - hate to admit this - lack confidence in certain areas including socializing. But these have been more so when I was younger and less so as I have grown older which probably means lack of experience. (Infact quite a few of my friends have commented that they admire me in this regard.) I do contemplate as to how I can have the best outcome from interactions wit the opposite sex (sx wannabe maybe) and even beat myself if there were things left unsaid. (However a guy who is exactly the same age as I said he and he has read that other guys too at our age suffer from this thought of 'did I say enough, what should I have said etc' which made me sigh a breath of relief.) Again I think this as something anyone can relate to. However, I don't suffer from feelings of inadequacy from group conversations, have no phobias in that area and don't go home and run everything/conversation in my head thinking I said too much or too little. It's usually on one of one conversations with females I'm attracted to I often ponder.
    "sx wannabe" haha. Like your friend indicated...what's described above stems primarily from the "human variant."


    Anyway going back to confidence, sadly I am no cowboy although I might come across so. I don't/can't jump into things without having utmost confidence in my abilities when taking part in things that might require 'considerable' talent (such as playing cricket with without proper practice ...... this is actually the only activity that crosses my mind, making me wonder whether I have some childhood insecurity regarding it). Wow I am such an idiot. Maybe this para should be ignored!

    Hmm.. on an embarrassing note I have a constant belief that I need to change as a 'person' (not my habits or practices) to function properly in certain areas in life. I wonder whether this is a common need? It's quite intense, to a level I am unable to function properly (and sometimes at all) when unsure of what to 'be'. This is the first time I've shared that aspect of my life.
    I love you opening-up a little more and sharing these aspects of your life and who you are as a person... Here again though, much of what you put forth are feelings and experiences that will be shared by individuals across the entire enneagram spectrum...until we get to the bolded. I personally have always believed you are a 7... but the fact the bolded is the primary coping/defensive strategy of the type...the foundation on which 7 is built... I wonder if that helps you in any way decide between 7 & 9? (there was an attempt to discuss this issue in @Lady_X's 9 thread... that a way to distinguish 7 from 9 is that 7s wish for change while 9s fear it. 9s try to make sure things do not change.)

    This thread though... has me questioning 8 as your wing. IOW I suspected an 8 wing for the same reasons @OrangeAppled stated in her post but I'm now wondering whether @Elfboy's got it right with his typing of 7w6. You present with the confidence of the 7w8...but I do know that there are some 7w6 so/sx's that...for whatever reason...are capable of concealing their e6 anxieties and insecurities (smooth presentation) in spite of the experience of them. The fact you report feelings of insecurities does have me thinking Elfboy is correct in his typing of you.

  7. #27
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    ^

    Dammit have to go to sleep. Will reply to you in the morning Starry.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    This is interesting, thanks for sharing so much
    Huh no worries. And thank you (all of you) for trying to help. I have since late (few months) been having the need to know my fears/motivations, and enneagram seems quite helpful in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Glad high volume works, I wen through a number of words before I thought of that one! And trust me when I say it's a great thing to not sound mental, in the head triad way. It sucks. It's too much, too fast, too complex. It gets twisted inside and you can't find your way out. You spend ages in your head and you create monsters entirely of your own making - like you see with your sister. I am happy for you if you are not a head type. You do still strike me as an "intellectual" NT, ENTP. I just mean that you seem intelligent enough not to get yourself tied up in mental knots.
    Oooops I didn't mean to say I am more high volume than mental. I meant to agree that 7w8s are 'too high volume' to describe me. However I am more interactive (and even polarizing - which I have been called) in groups scenarios involving people I like, esp more so than most people. However I am not socially concerned enough to continually maintain such high levels of polarization, or to put it better: easily leaves the situation based on whether I have already gained what I want or what I am gaining.

    You just used Fe there when you called me intellectual didn't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Would you mind talking more about the differences between you and your sister? I think it could be illuminating typewise.
    Hmm.. Haven't thought much on it. I'll try to use words:

    Me/Sister

    relaxed/anxious
    Unsympathetic/sympathetic
    unempathetic/empathetic
    Always relaxed/always anxious
    Picks battles which are needed to fight/either runs from battles that have to be fought or picks stupid battles
    Brave/brave with family, not so with outsiders
    Both are bad tempered
    Suave though not sophisticated/not suave
    Seductive/Doesn't ever seduce, often gets laughed at for her lack of seduction
    Academic slacker/Academic
    Funny (yeah I am funny)/Not funny

    Hmmm... I'll share more when it crosses my mind. I am comparing with the wrong person since I - except for a very few areas - feel I am better equipped than her. :/

    Maybe I should compare myself with Elim Garak from Star Trek DS9 who is also a 6w7, though a ENTP?

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Really interesting. I was curious as to the level of intimacy you engage quickly/deeply, because it relates to where sx is in your stacking. Sx first will initiate and plunge to depth as a general preference, sx second will "dip" here and there with certain people, and sx-last will tend to hold back as a general preference. What you have described sounds like sp is higher in your stacking than sx, and I doubt that you are sexual dominant. Do you have any thoughts on your instinctual stacking?
    Are you sure SX doms plunge to depth? Well they probably do, but wouldn't I think if they are facing the same scenario as me. I am not a SX dom though, that I am 95% certain.

    I have no idea what my instinctual stacking is either .
    .

  8. #28
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    No inner conflict for So-Dom? Have you gone insane?
    I got interrupted and had to return to this...


    Magic, I thought I indicated to you that I wanted to keep the fact I've gone insane private and here you go and...? omg (see if I ever tell you anything secret ever again.)

    I am under the assumption that most (if not all) humans will experience 'inner conflict.'
    I also imagine that there exists more variables than we can truly account for... that impacts/alters that experience for each individual.

    Do I believe an individual that is stacked sx/sp will automatically experience more inner turmoil than a social dom? No.

    If we strip everything away and examine variants in isolation do I then believe the contrast between sx/sp is greater and more problematic than so/sp & so/sx? Yes. Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp comes with a 'built-in' conflict? Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp might be considered one of those variables mentioned above in and of itself in ways the social stacks might not be? Yes.

    Have I read a thousand times over in a variety of works... theorists claim that sx/sp is the most challenging stack? Yes. Do I feel sexual dominance in general carries with it the potential to create the experience of 'inner conflict' to a greater degree than that of social dominance? Yes. Is that the common understanding in enneagram theory? Yup.

  9. #29
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I got interrupted and had to return to this...


    Magic, I thought I indicated to you that I wanted to keep the fact I've gone insane private and here you go and...? omg (see if I ever tell you anything secret ever again.)

    I am under the assumption that most (if not all) humans will experience 'inner conflict.'
    I also imagine that there exists more variables than we can truly account for... that impacts/alters that experience for each individual.

    Do I believe an individual that is stacked sx/sp will automatically experience more inner turmoil than a social dom? No.

    If we strip everything away and examine variants in isolation do I then believe the contrast between sx/sp is greater and more problematic than so/sp & so/sx? Yes. Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp comes with a 'built-in' conflict? Do I believe the contrast between sx/sp might be considered one of those variables mentioned above in and of itself in ways the social stacks might not be? Yes.

    Have I read a thousand times over in a variety of works... theorists claim that sx/sp is the most challenging stack? Yes. Do I feel sexual dominance in general carries with it the potential to create the experience of 'inner conflict' to a greater degree than that of social dominance? Yes. Is that the common understanding in enneagram theory? Yup.
    Whatever, I don't care anymore. I feel like this is all made up, anyway. The real issue is endless mistakes that almost have me fired. Can't keep any shit straight. I'm just a drain on society and wish I could fall asleep and never wake up. I'm a waste of space and resources.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #30
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^I think my use of 'unrest' when describing sx/sp & sp/sx may have confused you here haha. I know that many of the general e7 descriptions which often have a Se 7w8 bias can conjure up images of a high-energy individual that has no time for sleep. That's not the kind of 'unrest' I'm talking about.

    These two in the dom/aux can feel like they are in direct opposition to each other... creating an individual that often feels conflicted. 'Unrest' was a reference to that state. Imagine being in a car...and you simultaneously have the accelerator and the brake floored... (where are you goin riva?) That image should help you understand my meaning when I say 'torn.'
    Well I get the metaphor, but I am not sure of the contexts. Is this always or only on certain scenarios; like inner thoughts, decisions etc? I would love some example.

    "sx wannabe" haha. Like your friend indicated...what's described above stems primarily from the "human variant."
    I love you opening-up a little more and sharing these aspects of your life and who you are as a person... Here again though, much of what you put forth are feelings and experiences that will be shared by individuals across the entire enneagram spectrum...until we get to the bolded. I personally have always believed you are a 7... but the fact the bolded is the primary coping/defensive strategy of the type...the foundation on which 7 is built... I wonder if that helps you in any way decide between 7 & 9? (there was an attempt to discuss this issue in @Lady_X's 9 thread... that a way to distinguish 7 from 9 is that 7s wish for change while 9s fear it. 9s try to make sure things do not change.)
    Woah I didn't know this.

    Well I did know it, but I assumed the change 7s look for is 'greener grass' and not an 'inner mental state' of competence. However I could be running, not from my problems but from my weaknesses. I do think though that I am not running/avoiding my issues but standing my ground, changing inside and fighting back. I want things dealt with and I don't ever recall running from an issue. In a literal sense I 'can't' look for greener grass if I have issues I haven't dealt with (though I am not foolish enough to anxiously wonder what others are thinking once I've left). Once they are settled, I feel 'free/unrestrained' to go look for better things. I wouldn't call it running though.

    This thread though... has me questioning 8 as your wing. IOW I suspected an 8 wing for the same reasons @OrangeAppled stated in her post but I'm now wondering whether @Elfboy's got it right with his typing of 7w6. You present with the confidence of the 7w8...but I do know that there are some 7w6 so/sx's that...for whatever reason...are capable of concealing their e6 anxieties and insecurities (smooth presentation) in spite of the experience of them. The fact you report feelings of insecurities does have me thinking Elfboy is correct in his typing of you.
    Yeah I think insecurities is the word, though the moment I find my security (which is always within self) I become a raging cowboy. (It's amazing that one moment I am finding my feet avoiding interaction and next I am kicking ass.) However sad to say I am naturally not a over-confident person, though I am definitely a positive person who knows that I'll always always make it through and therefore is never anxious. And anxious is never a word others would use to describe me. And I also seldom complain about external circumstances (like a e6 or wing 6 would). I just know things are going to be alright, I know I can actively change my external circumstances, smooth talk myself out of bad scenarios or -gulp - run. But I do get angry and curse at external circumstances, sometimes even loudly. I just don't keep it inside.

    ^

    Couldn't all these be 9w8 traits too? However your point about e7s wanting change and e9s resist change questions e9 typing. But like I said above, I look for internal solution/change so I can deal with the external and internal insecurities, and I seldom run. (This could be a Machismo tendency.)

    Once I've changed though I am changed for good.

    Edit - all of what i said could be of a 9's wing 8 developing?

    Is the wing an additional fear or something that is developed to cope with fears?
    .

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