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  1. #21
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I can attest that EJCC doesn't get Ni and Se. She is very much Si.

    Being Si doesn't mean that one is not intuitive, it indicates how that intuition is expressed. Also to the degree that we tend to associate intuition with intelligence, it is easy to mistype very intelligent S types as intuitive.

    I can tell that EJCC doesn't use Ni, because my Ni-ish statements confuse her, but when I switch to a more Si mode of explaining things (I can mimic Si, even if if I don't use it) she picks up on things very quickly. It's kind of like electrical wall outlets: the 110V plug only fits the American style outlet, and the 220V plug only fits the European outlet. I don't so much observe behavior so much as see how each type's ideas fit with those of other types.
    For clarity, did you mean: it's easy to mistype someone with a sensory preference as having intuitive preferences, if they have good command of intuitive functions? Please make your remark as stark as possible so I can understand it.

    And then for further clarification, was that remark related to EJCC? Because then you state that she doesn't use Ni, which contradicts the above observation, if it was in reference to her.

    I'm genuinely intrigued if EJCC is in fact an ESTJ and is on here discussing typology. I'd like to understand it better. Thank you.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  2. #22
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    For clarity, did you mean: it's easy to mistype someone with a sensory preference as having intuitive preferences, if they have good command of intuitive functions? Please make your remark as stark as possible so I can understand it.

    And then for further clarification, was that remark related to EJCC? Because then you state that she doesn't use Ni, which contradicts the above observation, if it was in reference to her.

    I'm genuinely intrigued if EJCC is in fact an ESTJ and is on here discussing typology. I'd like to understand it better. Thank you.
    I'm speaking about several different factors. The main factor is that I'm certain that she isn't an Ni-type - very much Si/Ne. Another factor is the tendency to think of intelligent people as being intuitive types, which is often true, but not a useful litmus test. Intelligence doesn't indicate a command of intuitive functions, it's just easier for intuitive types to appear as intelligent, because they tend to speak in terms of abstract ideas. Si (and Se) types can also master abstract ideas, but this isn't "intuition" in a cognitive sense, but a learned skill.

    I type others in terms of the "kinds of ideas" they tend to easily learn and generate. There is a certain "feel" to Ni/Se ideas, and a different feel to Ne/Si ideas. The differences are fairly abstract, but once you know what to look for, it's usually obvious. In my case, I'm strongly Ni, and I can sense/feel that kind of thinking in others. I don't sense that kind of thinking in EJCC.

    I'm not in the mood to write another essay on Ni/Se vs Ne/Si tonight, but if you're really curious, just search the forum for my writings on these topics.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #23
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    I'll jump on the ESTJ train. Though EJCC systematically defies the negative aspects of the ESTJ stereotype, I've never really doubted her type. She seems very ESTJ to me.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #24
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'm speaking about several different factors. The main factor is that I'm certain that she isn't an Ni-type - very much Si/Ne. Another factor is the tendency to think of intelligent people as being intuitive types, which is often true, but not a useful litmus test. Intelligence doesn't indicate a command of intuitive functions, it's just easier for intuitive types to appear as intelligent, because they tend to speak in terms of abstract ideas. Si (and Se) types can also master abstract ideas, but this isn't "intuition" in a cognitive sense, but a learned skill.

    I'm not in the mood to write another essay on Ni/Se vs Ne/Si tonight, but if you're really curious, just search the forum for my writings on these topics.
    I think one thing people tend to forget is that Si is very adaptive based on experience and context. So (to stereotype freely), an SJ growing up in Germany might be ultra time-aware and expect the same in others. The same SJ growing up in a more time-relaxed culture (let's say somewhere in Latin America, for example) would be much more relaxed about time, and not expect others to be timely. I think since the first round of MBTI-related books was written a while back in the US, we tend to expect SJs to personify the values of the US 50s (or conservative aspects of the 60s, 70s, etc). That's not the environment that SJs grow up in today, so they are going to adapt to different conditions.

    Regardless of all that, ESTJs are individuals, just like everyone else (cue Monty Python: "I'm not!"). They vary a great deal, just like individual of other types. Not every ESTJ is a button-down CEO/CFO or hard-nosed officer in the military.

    (BTW: still not an INFJ, still can't resist responding to this thread.)

  5. #25
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    She is ESTJ. I have seen no evidence to suggest she isn't, and plenty that she is.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
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    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  6. #26
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I think a lot of people feel like they butt heads with ESTJs more than any other type in a work setting.

    I probably do worst with people who vary widely between micromanaging and not managing at all. Unsure if that's type-related, but I've seen INTPs and various other introverted types do it.
    The best boss I ever had was an ESTJ. He was older, so had lots of time to develop those non-preferred functions. Plus, he spent his career in an environment with lots of NTs. I think he learned he could trust us when we came up with those Ni plans and ideas. For my part, I never had any trouble packaging those ideas in a very structured, factually supported manner for him. We made a great team.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #27
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'll jump on the ESTJ train. Though EJCC systematically defies the negative aspects of the ESTJ stereotype, I've never really doubted her type. She seems very ESTJ to me.
    This.

    I get no Ni vibes from her. Plus her sense of humour is totally Ne friendly.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #28
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ESTJ. Her sense of structure would make many an NTJ envious. And her Ne is adorable /Ne-dom
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #29
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'll jump on the ESTJ train. Though EJCC systematically defies the negative aspects of the ESTJ stereotype, I've never really doubted her type. She seems very ESTJ to me.
    That's what we're in this business for. Systematically defying SJness's negative aspects while not escaping who we are.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #30
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    For clarity, did you mean: it's easy to mistype someone with a sensory preference as having intuitive preferences, if they have good command of intuitive functions? Please make your remark as stark as possible so I can understand it.

    And then for further clarification, was that remark related to EJCC? Because then you state that she doesn't use Ni, which contradicts the above observation, if it was in reference to her.

    I'm genuinely intrigued if EJCC is in fact an ESTJ and is on here discussing typology. I'd like to understand it better. Thank you.
    My parents are INFJ and INTP and had a strong influence on my usage of N. Especially because -- and I think most people with an INTP parent can attest to this -- INTP parenting necessitates a degree of "ooh, let's experiment with this kid to see how far i can push them". In my case, that pushing was intellectual, and led to a lot of abstract discussion early on.

    However, even with my well-developed Ne, which others have commented on, I still can't help but fall into black and white thinking, especially when stressed. And when in doubt, I always, and I mean ALWAYS, refer to precedent first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    That's what we're in this business for. Systematically defying SJness's negative aspects while not escaping who we are.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

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