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Thread: ENTP vs INTJ

  1. #1
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    Post ENTP vs INTJ

    So, after extensive research on cognitive functions and Socionics, I've arrived at the conclusion that I'm an irrational logical intuitive, an NT with dominant perceiving. I tried to read Jung's descriptions but they were too esoteric and archaic, my possible ADHD couldn't keep up with them either. I read Lenore's descriptions and while I did find myself being inclined towards Ni, I'm still unsure. In general, I relate more to Ni than Ne. Converging instead of diverging.

    However, the only thing stopping me from completely dismissing Ne or ENTP is Si. For some reason, even though Socionics or even Jung never alluded to it, Si is associated with the past. And here's the problem. I have an exceptional long term memory (a poor short term one though) and I am fairly nostalgic. I'll occasionally listen to songs just to get reminded of my past. Sometimes, if I'm stuck in a predicament, I'll take a pessimistic attitude towards my present and start dwelling on how the old days were so much better, even though it's futile. And then there's getting emotionally attached to objects... although, I think this is not entirely the case with me. It might seem as if I'm emotionally attached to an object in scenarios where I'm asked to throw them away but the truth is, I'm reluctant to do that because I believe the object can still be of importance in the future. That's why I also tend to be a pack-rat. Unless an object is completely worthless (like an old comb or something), I would rather retain its possession because it might be useful to me later. I've observed that my mother, probably an ESFJ, is the opposite. She would ruthlessly throw objects away if she thinks they are useless in the present. The future doesn't matter, if I can't use it now, it's useless. That's her thought process. Both my parents are Si valuers and they would not hesitate to jettison anything that's not considered useful in the present, I've noticed.

    And yet, sometimes I can refuse to let go of an object just because I might be attached to it (now that I think about it, it was more of a symbolic reaction, as if the change in my belongings was a sign that my life was inevitably changing; this is actually related to that example I mentioned earlier, when I was going through harsh times and thinking about how great my past days used to be, it was like reality slapping me in the face and saying, "Your life is changing, for good or bad, it doesn't matter, it's inevitable, now man up!"). For example, if the bed I'm currently sitting on right now were to suddenly get changed, I might be just a little disturbed. Why? I don't know. I couldn't care less about the bed. It's just a commodity. Hell, it's on the verge of breaking because I have a juvenile tendency to jump to my bed rather than just lay down on it. Of course, I'll get over it in a matter of days. Maybe I wouldn't care at all. A few months ago, my mobile phone was broken. I was indifferent to that, save for a certain amount of frustration because I had stored a lot of songs in it (before remembering I had backup, as a matter of fact I was quite glad because that phone sucked and I had been thinking of getting a better one). Hmmm... perhaps that phase where I actually refused to let go of the furniture in my house was just a peculiarity, probably related to depression.

    Thing is, I would drop all my uncertainties and declare myself as at least an INxJ if it wasn't for the fact that I see what could possibly be Si in myself too. I'm confused. I would appreciate if anyone would take the initiative to describe Si, especially in relation to Ni. Oh and of course, the differences between ENTP and INTJ.

    PS - Just in case, I'm also willing to consider ENFP and INFJ.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Tip: Socionics three-letter-type code stands for (First Function Preference)(Second Function Preference)(Extratim/Intratim)
    An INTp is the ILI, or the Intuitive Logical Intratim
    An ENTp is the ILE, or the Intuitive Logical Extratim
    An ENTj is the LIE, or the Logical Intuitive Extratim

    I'm not entirely sure that your Si would be your Demonic Personality Complex, though I might be wrong. Whenever I engage Role/DPC Si, there is no Nostalgia usually, there are primarily only memories of past failures, mistakes, and even cringe-worthy actions, but this is not because my past only has failures and mistakes, for my past also has success as well, it is because Demon Si is counter-ego (Si vs Ni) and is unvalued (oftentimes, the Super-Ego functions of the Role and Vulnerable (or Demon and Trickster) are referred to as the "conscience" of the Ego-block, as they are weak and are counter-perspectives). Its operations are designed to keep the Lead/Hero function in check.

  3. #3
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    So, after extensive research on cognitive functions and Socionics, I've arrived at the conclusion that I'm an irrational logical intuitive, an NT with dominant perceiving. I tried to read Jung's descriptions but they were too esoteric and archaic, my possible ADHD couldn't keep up with them either. I read Lenore's descriptions and while I did find myself being inclined towards Ni, I'm still unsure. In general, I relate more to Ni than Ne. Converging instead of diverging.

    However, the only thing stopping me from completely dismissing Ne or ENTP is Si. For some reason, even though Socionics or even Jung never alluded to it, Si is associated with the past. And here's the problem. I have an exceptional long term memory (a poor short term one though) and I am fairly nostalgic. I'll occasionally listen to songs just to get reminded of my past. Sometimes, if I'm stuck in a predicament, I'll take a pessimistic attitude towards my present and start dwelling on how the old days were so much better, even though it's futile. And then there's getting emotionally attached to objects... although, I think this is not entirely the case with me. It might seem as if I'm emotionally attached to an object in scenarios where I'm asked to throw them away but the truth is, I'm reluctant to do that because I believe the object can still be of importance in the future. That's why I also tend to be a pack-rat. Unless an object is completely worthless (like an old comb or something), I would rather retain its possession because it might be useful to me later. I've observed that my mother, probably an ESFJ, is the opposite. She would ruthlessly throw objects away if she thinks they are useless in the present. The future doesn't matter, if I can't use it now, it's useless. That's her thought process. Both my parents are Si valuers and they would not hesitate to jettison anything that's not considered useful in the present, I've noticed.

    And yet, sometimes I can refuse to let go of an object just because I might be attached to it (now that I think about it, it was more of a symbolic reaction, as if the change in my belongings was a sign that my life was inevitably changing; this is actually related to that example I mentioned earlier, when I was going through harsh times and thinking about how great my past days used to be, it was like reality slapping me in the face and saying, "Your life is changing, for good or bad, it doesn't matter, it's inevitable, now man up!"). For example, if the bed I'm currently sitting on right now were to suddenly get changed, I might be just a little disturbed. Why? I don't know. I couldn't care less about the bed. It's just a commodity. Hell, it's on the verge of breaking because I have a juvenile tendency to jump to my bed rather than just lay down on it. Of course, I'll get over it in a matter of days. Maybe I wouldn't care at all. A few months ago, my mobile phone was broken. I was indifferent to that, save for a certain amount of frustration because I had stored a lot of songs in it (before remembering I had backup, as a matter of fact I was quite glad because that phone sucked and I had been thinking of getting a better one). Hmmm... perhaps that phase where I actually refused to let go of the furniture in my house was just a peculiarity, probably related to depression.

    Thing is, I would drop all my uncertainties and declare myself as at least an INxJ if it wasn't for the fact that I see what could possibly be Si in myself too. I'm confused. I would appreciate if anyone would take the initiative to describe Si, especially in relation to Ni. Oh and of course, the differences between ENTP and INTJ.

    PS - Just in case, I'm also willing to consider ENFP and INFJ.
    If you wear glasses you are an INTJ, if not, you are an ENTP.

  4. #4
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    If you wear glasses you are an INTJ, if not, you are an ENTP.
    No yeghor. Neither type wears glasses.

    INTJ's can only be distinguished from ENTP's based on silver bullets. ENTP's = spiritual werewolves = only killed by silver bullets. INTJ if he considers running this test.

  5. #5
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    No yeghor. Neither type wears glasses.

    INTJ's can only be distinguished from ENTP's based on silver bullets. ENTP's = spiritual werewolves = only killed by silver bullets. INTJ if he considers running this test.
    I think being cheerful and having a goofy smile most of the time would also point towards ENTP whereas going about business with a seemingly paralyzed face with little mimickry would point towards INTJ as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I think being cheerful and having a goofy smile most of the time would also point towards ENTP whereas going about business with a seemingly paralyzed face with little mimickry would point towards INTJ as well.
    Think you're getting lazy. Why didn't you ask him to take those tests?

  7. #7
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Tip: Socionics three-letter-type code stands for (First Function Preference)(Second Function Preference)(Extratim/Intratim)
    An INTp is the ILI, or the Intuitive Logical Intratim
    An ENTp is the ILE, or the Intuitive Logical Extratim
    An ENTj is the LIE, or the Logical Intuitive Extratim

    I'm not entirely sure that your Si would be your Demonic Personality Complex, though I might be wrong. Whenever I engage Role/DPC Si, there is no Nostalgia usually, there are primarily only memories of past failures, mistakes, and even cringe-worthy actions, but this is not because my past only has failures and mistakes, for my past also has success as well, it is because Demon Si is counter-ego (Si vs Ni) and is unvalued (oftentimes, the Super-Ego functions of the Role and Vulnerable (or Demon and Trickster) are referred to as the "conscience" of the Ego-block, as they are weak and are counter-perspectives). Its operations are designed to keep the Lead/Hero function in check.
    Hmmm... that might explain why I find it difficult to consciously recall my good memories (when answering questions like "What was the happiest moment of your life?"). I do tend to lament and get paralyzed in stressful situations because I start obsessing over what went wrong and even begin thinking of different scenarios as to how my predicament could have been evaded. I basically get to the root of the problem and being thinking of different pathways. This is frustrating, of course. My other way of behaving in stressful situations is to surrender myself to external sensory sources of entertainment (usually, binging or surfing the internet aimlessly). Sometimes, I might even start doing something that I had been planning to do in the future. For example, a few days before a challenging exam, I might suddenly start working on the book I had been planning to write during the vacations, just to feel as if I was doing something, I suppose. I would become optimistic about the future, as if my present was just a phase to overcome. Seriously, a day before the last exam of high school, I was making plans for the vacations. I ended up almost failing in that one.
    I am quite in tune with the past in some ways. For example, while watching the last few minutes of the Germany vs Portugal match, I kept thinking of how similar it was to Germany's match with Argentina in the previous world cup. I kept making connections between the two matches.

    By the way, how would you describe the four Quadras concisely?

    PS - I see someone voted for INFJ. Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    If you wear glasses you are an INTJ, if not, you are an ENTP.
    I do wear glasses, but I like my eyes better naked.

    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    No yeghor. Neither type wears glasses.

    INTJ's can only be distinguished from ENTP's based on silver bullets. ENTP's = spiritual werewolves = only killed by silver bullets. INTJ if he considers running this test.
    Then I am an INTJ!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    By the way, how would you describe the four Quadras concisely?
    The most brief descriptions of the quadras would probably be the Reinen dichotomies associated with them.
    Merry-Serious, Judicious-Decisive, Democratic-Aristocratic:

    Alpha - Merry, Judicious, Democratic
    Beta - Merry, Decisive, Aristocratic
    Gamma - Serious, Decisive, Democratic
    Delta - Serious, Judicious, Aristocratic

    Furthermore, there are +/- IM elements for each of the quadra.

    Alpha Quadra -



    Beta Quadra -



    Gamma Quadra



    Delta Quadra -



    Source and Further Reading

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    If you wear glasses you are an INTJ, if not, you are an ENTP.
    lol all nerds wear glasses regardless of type, and anyone can potentially wear them! This is the most ridiculous comment I've seen.

    My mum is an ESFJ and she wears glasses for driving, whereas my ISTJ dad has 20/20 vision.

  10. #10
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The most brief descriptions of the quadras would probably be the Reinen dichotomies associated with them.
    Merry-Serious, Judicious-Decisive, Democratic-Aristocratic:

    Alpha - Merry, Judicious, Democratic
    Beta - Merry, Decisive, Aristocratic
    Gamma - Serious, Decisive, Democratic
    Delta - Serious, Judicious, Aristocratic

    Furthermore, there are +/- IM elements for each of the quadra.

    Alpha Quadra -



    Beta Quadra -



    Gamma Quadra



    Delta Quadra -



    Source and Further Reading
    Hmmm, interesting. I'll have to consider them at length, though. Meanwhile, I have an anecdote which might tell you about my Quadra preference.

    A few days ago, my family organized a large social gathering, where almost everyone in their social circle was invited. Well, I sat alone in my bedroom, browsing the internet while the guests and my family regaled in the hall. Eventually, the kids and adolescents (about three or four) from the circle were sent to to my room. I was remotely inconvenienced by their intrusion but also somewhat relieved so I decided to optimize the situation by having a movie session. That was our group. We watched a movie. But what's interesting is how I behaved in the group. I suddenly assumed the role of the leader or the host and I also tried to make the guests enjoy the movie to the fullest by switching off the lights and manipulating the atmosphere to make it seem like we were in an actual cinema hall, get immersed. I was quite enthusiastic to get the opportunity to share my interests with them in such a way. Now, here's the interesting part. This is when I became cautious about letting other people join. I also wanted the people to understand the movie they were watching, not just watch it, if you know what I mean. I would get irritated whenever anyone would seem as if he wasn't interested in the movie and more interested in cracking jokes or eating. Of course, it wasn't their fault. Soon, one of the adult guests entered the room and asked us to join them in a sequence of party games and a rambunctious dance. I promptly denied the request. The others also hesitated, but they eventually left and that left me feeling somewhat furious. Why would anyone prefer playing silly games and dancing to watching an intriguing movie (it was The Usual Suspects, by the way, which explains why I particularly wanted them to understand the movie)? I could not understand. I was also looking forward to discussing the movie with them after its conclusion. Suffice to say, I was quite disappointed with humanity at that point, haha. And that's also one of my ways of getting to know people.
    As a matter of fact, every time I attend a social gathering, I just go to an isolated room and either search for interesting books to read or a computer with wi-fi. I also prefer having only a small group of people in the room. Discussions are more interesting. The bigger a group, the less the substance. It reminds me of a scientific phenomenon or theory but I cannot recall its name. If the social gathering is held outside, I'd rather play football or something. Now that I think about it, I would love to be involved in a group where we just keep playing football or any outdoor sport for quite a while. And when we're not in the mood for activity, time spent alone with like-minded people would be great. Perhaps a discussion where talk about our interests and analyze them (for instance, talking about Breaking Bad and dissecting its plot, characters, relation to reality, ah... that sounds stimulating). I specifically despise loud and boisterous groups where it's all about dancing, eating, superficial conversation and the like. Basically, the quintessential party.

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