Let's get this over with.

[yeghor]

I hardly ever brainstorm.

Pretty low Ne lol.

INTJs have a strong shadow Ne too.

Could you do this test and paste the results please?

http://similarminds.com/test.html

 

[Kullervo]

INTJs have a strong shadow Ne too.

Could you do this test and paste the results please?

http://similarminds.com/test.html

I think I can guess what is coming but let's see if you can surprise me.

For the record, my Enneagram tritype is 6w7 3w4 1w9, though I am ambivalent about Enneagram as a system so don't have it in my sig anymore.

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||| 50%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||| 22%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||||||| 74%
Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||||||| 74%
Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||| 50%
Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||| 50%

 

[yeghor]

I think I can guess what is coming but let's see if you can surprise me.

For the record, my Enneagram tritype is 6w7 3w4 1w9, though I am ambivalent about Enneagram as a system so don't have it in my sig anymore.

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||| 50%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||||| 22%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||||||||||| 74%
Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||||||| 74%
Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||| 50%
Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||| 58%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||| 50%

6w7 3w4 8w9 1w9 = Te Fe or Fi Se Ni. You are either ENFJ or ENTJ. Why your 3w4 is so high that I don't know. Do you yearn to be respected\feared or revered\loved?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Yes, I think that is what creates the confusion, my Fi is overdevaloped for an INTJ, and people are getting tripped up by that.

What do you mean by overdeveloped?

 

[Kullervo]

6w7 3w4 8w9 1w9 = Te Fe or Fi Se Ni. You are either ENFJ or ENTJ. Why your 3w4 is so high that I don't know. Do you yearn to be respected\feared or revered\loved?

That seems like the most obvious question. Of course I want to be respected and loved by my family, my next girlfriend when I finally find her. These are pretty basic human desires - if you went out and asked 10 random people on the street whether they wanted to be respected and loved, 10 would say yes.

I do kind of like the idea of people worshiping me after my death, but I haven't done anything to justify that quite yet

This is why I dislike Enneagram though, and your method of approximating it with MBTI doesn't appeal either.

 

[Kullervo]

What do you mean by overdeveloped?

I use Fi a lot more than an INTJ typically would. If you look in my signature, it is as developed as Ni.

This doesn't mean I am an NFP (anyone who has communicated with me for long should pick up the J-ness!), just that I am vulnerable to Ni-Fi loops when i am stressed or tired.

 

[yeghor]

That seems like the most obvious question. Of course I want to be respected and loved by my family, my next girlfriend when I finally find her. These are pretty basic human desires - if you went out and asked 10 random people on the street whether they wanted to be respected and loved, 10 would say yes.

I do kind of like the idea of people worshiping me after my death, but I haven't done anything to justify that quite yet

This is why I dislike Enneagram though, and your method of approximating it with MBTI doesn't appeal either.

Enneagram points out compulsions. Do you feel extreme feelings when you are not revered or respected by others?

Do you try to punish or get back at others when they don't do that? Are you competitive and want to end in top no matter what? Cause that's what that score implies.

 

[Kullervo]

[MENTION=20531]yeghor[/MENTION] I get very angry at the inverse - if if I am insulted and criticised about my work or something personal - but I don't expect to be revered. It would be nice to be respected but I understand you have to earn it.

I am most competitive about my music, I never show my scores to anyone to prevent plagiarism for example. I feel that I have to be the best because I hate losing and besides, what else am I going to do. And deep down, I also know that I am the best, way more innately talented than my peers. But I need to prove it to myself, and also to show everyone that I can do great, special things other people can't. However I don't really try to punish people for not respecting me. I only do so if they insult and deride me.

It has been suggested that I am just a shy ENTJ, but I thought that extroverts weren't very socially awkward.

 

[Kullervo]

Allright I'm going to give this thread a kick, see if anyone is interested enough to continue the conversation and help me.

If not...

 

[Elocute]

Around someone I didn't know at all, I would be very nervous and fidgety. I would try not to look at them and wouldn't talk to them unless I had to. I am not sure what you mean by "rightness", but if you are talking about how I approach an issue, I tend to detach emotionally and go inside my head - when I see an essay question on the exam sheet for example, I look at it for half a second and just start writing. I hardly ever brainstorm. A structure naturally forms as I go along because the blueprints for making one are already there in my brain. The same goes with the music I hear in my head.

Does this help at all?

Around someone I didn't know at all, I would be very nervous and fidgety.

Sounds like a young introvert. I was like this and to some extent still am but grew out of it around 25yo.

I look at it for half a second and just start writing. I hardly ever brainstorm. A structure naturally forms as I go along because the blueprints for making one are already there in my brain. The same goes with the music I hear in my head.

This was exactly how I was in college. I used to write a friend's paper who was terrible at writing, and he was kind of taken aback by the lack of latency in wording something. If I have interruptions (loud music/talking to me while I'm writing), it becomes diffuse. I didn't really spell that well, despite my larger-than-average vocabulary.

I'd say this could be Ni, but whether it's Ti or Te for your 2nd/3rd function is unclear because I've seen an INFJ write beautifully in "5 minutes before the class," having the professor even use it as an example for the next term. Hers sounded way less technical and "beautiful" if that makes sense.

 

[Kullervo]

Sounds like a young introvert. I was like this and to some extent still am but grew out of it around 25yo.

My response is very situational.

If i have some physical space (not a cramped room or hall) and aren't tired and/or surrounded by lots of people, I can be quite friendly and open. I mentioned just before in another thread that I was surprised how easily I talked to a young female shop assistant and how obviously keen to talk to me she was. We ended up talking for over ten minutes while i standing in my socks! That has brought back memories of when I haven't been uptight, me being able to quite effortlessly chat up women and move them. I do, however, really like being approached, so I know that my attentions are wanted and valued. That knowledge works wonders in how I perceive my own worth.

It makes me nervous being watched by other people or having my personal space violated, because as you may be figuring out, relationships are a big deal for me.

This was exactly how I was in college. I used to write a friend's paper who was terrible at writing, and he was kind of taken aback by the lack of latency in wording something. If I have interruptions (loud music/talking to me while I'm writing), it becomes diffuse. I didn't really spell that well, despite my larger-than-average vocabulary.

I'd say this could be Ni, but whether it's Ti or Te for your 2nd/3rd function is unclear because I've seen an INFJ write beautifully in "5 minutes before the class," having the professor even use it as an example for the next term. Hers sounded way less technical and "beautiful" if that makes sense.

This is just like me, if I'm in a quiet place I will just sit down and go from A to B until I get worn out. I work in intense, short bursts. My spelling and vocabulary, however, are average. If you actually talked to me, I would sound pretty ordinary for my age. The language i use typing is quite different to that of my actual speech

I really doubt I am an INFJ, given the naturally rational nature of my personality. I can be intensely emotional at times, especially around girlfriends, but it isn't my default state.

 

[Elocute]

My response is very situational.

If i have some physical space (not a cramped room or hall) and aren't tired and/or surrounded by lots of people, I can be quite friendly and open. I mentioned just before in another thread that I was surprised how easily I talked to a young female shop assistant and how obviously keen to talk to me she was. We ended up talking for over ten minutes while i standing in my socks! That has brought back memories of when I haven't been uptight, me being able to quite effortlessly chat up women and move them. I do, however, really like being approached, so I know that my attentions are wanted and valued. That knowledge works wonders in how I perceive my own worth.

It makes me nervous being watched by other people or having my personal space violated, because as you may be figuring out, relationships are a big deal for me.



This is just like me, if I'm in a quiet place I will just sit down and go from A to B until I get worn out. I work in intense, short bursts. My spelling and vocabulary, however, are average. If you actually talked to me, I would sound pretty ordinary for my age. The language i use typing is quite different to that of my actual speech

I really doubt I am an INFJ, given the naturally rational nature of my personality. I can be intensely emotional at times, especially around girlfriends, but it isn't my default state.

I had INFJ/ENFJ good friends before. The former I lost contact with because we're both too introverted and her boyfriend thought we might to something, even though I clearly stated I was gay. eh oh well.

The INFJ and I looked a lot alike. She didn't mind calling someome dumb, whereas I'd take more offense because I felt that we should never call people something to limiting. However, if I got angry, it was a full-on roast. At that point, she would look very anxious, as though she were trying to get a bucket for all the emotions before she drowned in them them. Conflict and arguing seemed to be much more avoided. I avoided NEEDLESS conflict, But I had zero issue burning a bridge if I knew that danger, disloyalty, or stagnanation lied across it.

 

[Elocute]

Sweet. Only one person thinks I am an INFJ. I don't have to join the NFs.
[MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] I way am too naturally organised and structured to be a P type.
[MENTION=21203]theDarkSide[/MENTION] This is an interesting idea. What would you consider to be the main differences between the behaviour of a shy ENTJ and an INTJ?

Structured in what way? I've found INTJs not to be very organized in a material sense. Also you have 53% J, so care to tell us about this organization? (sorry if I screw up words. Sleeping meds kicking in)

 

[Kullervo]

I had INFJ/ENFJ good friends before. The former I lost contact with because we're both too introverted and her boyfriend thought we might to something, even though I clearly stated I was gay. eh oh well.

The INFJ and I looked a lot alike. She didn't mind calling someome dumb, whereas I'd take more offense because I felt that we should never call people something to limiting. However, if I got angry, it was a full-on roast. At that point, she would look very anxious, as though she were trying to get a bucket for all the emotions before she drowned in them them. Conflict and arguing seemed to be much more avoided. I avoided NEEDLESS conflict, But I had zero issue burning a bridge if I knew that danger, disloyalty, or stagnanation lied across it.

I am generally averse to calling someone an idiot, even if they are, because it creates needless conflict. If it matters enough to me, I'll provide said person with an alternative, but usually i just ignore it. Again, if I get angry, I go ape shit, and I generally get angry due to impatience and a poor job - something being screwed up or not happening as quickly as it should. The way to avoid conflict with me is to be supportive and emotionally available, and keep things running smoothly.

I have no hesitation in burning a bridge if I sense things cannot be fixed, but I try my best to work out a solution with a friend/girlfriend first.

 

[Kullervo]

Structured in what way? I've found INTJs not to be very organized in a material sense. Also you have 53% J, so care to tell us about this organization? (sorry if I screw up words. Sleeping meds kicking in)

I can be pretty lazy, for example my room is messy as fuck. I have the ability, however, to be very structured and make detailed plans if i feel there is a need (like preparing for a trip). It is just that often I don't have the motivation, or see the need, and do very well working things out as I go along. A structure often naturally assumes itself.

Another J vs P clincher is that I am strongly attracted aesthetically to structure and order (my tastes in music and visual arts for example)

My real question to you guys now is whether I'm a true introvert or just socially anxious. I think the question of NT vs NF has been answered pretty clearly.

 

[Elocute]

I can be pretty lazy, for example my room is messy as fuck. I have the ability, however, to be very structured and make detailed plans if i feel there is a need (like preparing for a trip). It is just that often I don't have the motivation, or see the need, and do very well working things out as I go along. A structure often naturally assumes itself.

Another J vs P clincher is that I am strongly attracted aesthetically to structure and order (my tastes in music and visual arts for example)

My real question to you guys now is whether I'm a true introvert or just socially anxious. I think the question of NT vs NF has been answered pretty clearly.

IMO, it's mainly social anxiety. The INFJ I knew made eye contact.

There are other things that come with introversion: preference for solitude (and with INXJs is almost a preoccupation ), a "drained" feeling after exposure as opposed to elevatedm irrespective of how much you enjoyed the night

I'm a pretty dead ringer introvert, so I can help a bit.

 

[Kullervo]

IMO, it's mainly social anxiety. The INFJ I knew made eye contact.

There are other things that come with introversion: preference for solitude (and with INXJs is almost a preoccupation ), a "drained" feeling after exposure as opposed to elevatedm irrespective of how much you enjoyed the night

I'm a pretty dead ringer introvert, so I can help a bit.

Hmm.

I am mixed here. I need some time to myself but like having someone else around to do things with is important too. My needs for quiet and relaxation should be balanced by spending time with someone I care about. I don't like being alone for long periods of time...though loud group events are not my cup of tea. Once a month, max. What makes me wonder whether I'm a true introvert s that I feel really good and invigorated after having positive interactions with other people.

Like you (?) I do get a drained feeling whenever I go out after a certain time, though, usually 10pm as I have an early night/earl morning sleep cycle.

 

[Elocute]

Hmm.

I am mixed here. I need some time to myself but like having someone else around to do things with is important too. My needs for quiet and relaxation should be balanced by spending time with someone I care about. I don't like being alone for long periods of time...though loud group events are not my cup of tea. Once a month, max. What makes me wonder whether I'm a true introvert s that I feel really good and invigorated after having positive interactions with other people.

Like you (?) I do get a drained feeling whenever I go out after a certain time, though, usually 10pm as I have an early night/earl morning sleep cycle.

Some of this is just plain human. I feel energized when I'm around my friends. There's just a pull to "pell away" after a bit, but it has nothing to do with the quality of time. Introversion, to me, just means that you lean towards more solitary living overall.

My ENFJ friend did not like being alone much at all. She could do it, but she needed to call/text people. For me, I can go about 2-3 days with no contact before that urge hits. And she was DEFINITELY into loud events, which sometimes was a source of disagreement because she wanted to do that weekly and multiple times per week. I was able to act and be entertaining, singing live at bars, etc. But after about 2 hours, I'd hit "spectator" mode.

My ENFP friend was the same in a way; she WOULD indulge me more and be a little bit more solitary, but there was a sense of bordeom that I got from her. She was almost near genius and would finish hour exams within minutes. We thought it was some way of showing off, but in her words, "I cannot stand being in those 4 walls for a fucking hour!"

These were strong extroverts. You still sound like an introvert to me, but let's see what others think. IME, extroverts don't have that "once a month" max thing much at all.

 

[Kullervo]

Some of this is just plain human. I feel energized when I'm around my friends. There's just a pull to "pell away" after a bit, but it has nothing to do with the quality of time. Introversion, to me, just means that you lean towards more solitary living overall.

My ENFJ friend did not like being alone much at all. She could do it, but she needed to call/text people. For me, I can go about 2-3 days with no contact before that urge hits. And she was DEFINITELY into loud events, which sometimes was a source of disagreement because she wanted to do that weekly and multiple times per week. I was able to act and be entertaining, singing live at bars, etc. But after about 2 hours, I'd hit "spectator" mode.

My ENFP friend was the same in a way; she WOULD indulge me more and be a little bit more solitary, but there was a sense of bordeom that I got from her. She was almost near genius and would finish hour exams within minutes. We thought it was some way of showing off, but in her words, "I cannot stand being in those 4 walls for a fucking hour!"

These were strong extroverts. You still sound like an introvert to me, but let's see what others think. IME, extroverts don't have that "once a month" max thing much at all.

I am the same, I feel trapped in rooms with lots of other people and generally finish exams in about half the allowed time. I like group events which take place outside, so tend to do my socialising in the morning or during the day. My dates involve taking girls out for breakfast or lunch. In the evening I'm always tired and just want to be alone. The thing about me is that I like having one or two people around, who I see every day - I just need a lot of quiet, down time. I enjoy socialising when it's in smaller doses, and my idea of fun would be a boating trip or group hike rather than a party. Remember, when I'm not in bed, I get very restless with mental or physical repetition.

I probably say "once a month" because I don't have any friends atm...I'd be happy with group stuff a lot more often as long as it wasn't late evening.

 

[Elocute]

I am the same, I feel trapped in rooms with lots of other people and generally finish exams in about half the allowed time. I like group events which take place outside, so tend to do my socialising in the morning or during the day. My dates involve taking girls out for breakfast or lunch. In the evening I'm always tired and just want to be alone. The thing about me is that I like having one or two people around, who I see every day - I just need a lot of quiet, down time. I enjoy socialising when it's in smaller doses, and my idea of fun would be a boating trip or group hike rather than a party. Remember, when I'm not in bed, I get very restless with mental or physical repetition.

I probably say "once a month" because I don't have any friends atm...I'd be happy with group stuff a lot more often as long as it wasn't late evening.

Sounds to me like you're a well-socialized introvert. I had a "crew" for a few years, but we didn't frequent frat parties like some of the more extroverted did. Also, I think a good barometer is your ability to continually like stimuli. Why? Inferior Se tends not to like bombardment for too long. When I am in concentration mode, I don't like a lot of light, TV, music, etc.

This was very different than my INTP friend, even though he was a strong introvert as well. He in a way "needed" the enviornment to supply him with ideas, often saying things like "purely reading a book is so boring" and opting more for group studies. I was the opposite, if there was a lot going on in the classroom or group, my attention just felt like it was being torn in too many directions.

Therefore, for me, group studies were a hindrance unless I already knew the material to my own standard (which is pretty high--almost cripplingly so at times). I just don't come up with random yet usable ideas as an Ne dom or secondary. So when they would throw the tangents, I just feel "slow." "What if this did that, and this doesn't really matter," like hypothetical tangents were often met with me saying, "Umm, the test is in 3 days, guys."

However, alone, just with a book, I could somehow ensure my understanding to a high enough degree to be #1 or #2 in 80% of my classes. This especially applies to when I attempt to write for people. I ask them to quickly tell me what they want to convey and then be quiet. If they continue to talk, the words don't flow as easily at all.