User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 35

Thread: Fi/Te vs Ti/Fe

  1. #11
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/so
    Posts
    1,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Fi is the adoption of a mental moral framework that is created to model how people should be acting (emotionally, ethically, morally) in the environment. This process is internal at first, and then is externalized upon the environment (projection). The environment, then, is expected to act according to the ethical model, and when it doesn't, it cries out to be fixed so that it may align itself with the model. Decisions are based on one's own ethical creed, and Fi also leads to the projection of internal emotional states onto the environment (emotional attachments). Te, on the other hand, builds frameworks from ones already available in the environment, taking empirical, observable evidence from the environment (absorption) and basing decisions on the technicalities absorbed from the environment. The process is external at first, and then it is internalized to be interpreted (extrapolation), so that the Te user can make mechanical, pragmatic decisions based on objective logical models and evidence provided by the external environment.
    you are wrong. that's Fe, if anything. Fi is extremely personal and does not try to organise other people's ways of thinking or deciding, in fact Fi understands the multiplicities between people and respects them.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    you are wrong. that's Fe, if anything. Fi is extremely personal and does not try to organise other people's ways of thinking or deciding, in fact Fi understands the multiplicities between people and respects them.
    Not always, you are giving the function to much credit, considering that it projects ethical rights and wrongs on the environment itself. If a specific Fi-user's rationally reasoned out creed is to respect other's viewpoints, then there is still the imposing of the moral structure onto the environment, for the environment is now "respected" (projected the ideal of respect onto the environment) for its opinions. When there hasn't been a reasoned out creed stating to respect other's views, Fi labels others as right/wrong, good/bad, etc. depending on how their actions fall on the personal ethical framework, thus projecting the working of the internal ethical framework onto the environment. Fe absorbs already built external ethical frameworks in the environment to be interpreted internally (Pi-Fe) and then applied immediately to label others according to how society labels others most of the time.

    There is no guarantee that an Fi-user will respect the environment's opinions, though it might happen often; ergo, it is a specific for some rather than the base definition, which is the general for all.

  3. #13
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    729 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEE Ne
    Posts
    5,634

    Default

    I dunno, I think Fi is a lot more individualistic about right/wrong. I might reject something as 'bad' but since I know that's just my individual view point, I'm just as sensitive to others doing things their way. In that way, I think it's kind of built in to the function.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    I dunno, I think Fi is a lot more individualistic about right/wrong. I might reject something as 'bad' but since I know that's just my individual view point, I'm just as sensitive to others doing things their way. In that way, I think it's kind of built in to the function.
    It is individualistic in its internal frameworks, creating a framework based on the sole reasoning of the self. What you describe is closer to a Ne-Fi mechanism, meaning that since Fi is the auxiliary, it is subordinate to Ne, which is constantly looking at the various sides of things. This means that Fi's ethical framework is subordinate to Ne, and means that it can be "loosely" applied as opposed to dogmatically applied like in the IxFP. There is less care in the ENFP for imposing the moral values due to the fact the ENFP can see both sides of a controversy easily, thus relaying both sides (or a side eventually picked) of the controversy through the hand of Fi to others.

    It is entirely individualistic about right/wrong. The function itself has more to do with projecting ideals and emotional concepts like "Right", "Wrong", "Amoral", "Moral", "Hatred", "Love". If someone killed someone you love (projecting the ideal of love onto the environment, in this case, a special other), then you would hate them probably (projecting the ideal of hatred onto the environment, in this case, a murderer).

  5. #15
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    LIE Ni
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    It is individualistic in its internal frameworks, creating a framework based on the sole reasoning of the self. What you describe is closer to a Ne-Fi mechanism, meaning that since Fi is the auxiliary, it is subordinate to Ne, which is constantly looking at the various sides of things. This means that Fi's ethical framework is subordinate to Ne, and means that it can be "loosely" applied as opposed to dogmatically applied like in the IxFP. There is less care in the ENFP for imposing the moral values due to the fact the ENFP can see both sides of a controversy easily, thus relaying both sides (or a side eventually picked) of the controversy through the hand of Fi to others.

    It is entirely individualistic about right/wrong. The function itself has more to do with projecting ideals and emotional concepts like "Right", "Wrong", "Amoral", "Moral", "Hatred", "Love". If someone killed someone you love (projecting the ideal of love onto the environment, in this case, a special other), then you would hate them probably (projecting the ideal of hatred onto the environment, in this case, a murderer).
    From the examples that I just posted, what conclusions did you draw? I also answered your questions in the other thread.

    Cognitive Functions + Socionics + Enneagram

  6. #16
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    From the examples that I just posted, what conclusions did you draw? I also answered your questions in the other thread.
    I gathered that you are probably an ENTP. I saw a bit of finesse in your argument from skimming it, with the employment of logical analysis being the way your present your idea (ENTP - Ne Hero, Ti Parent, Ne is relayed to others by Ti). I'll look at your answers in just a second and quote you there if need be.

    EDIT: No need, I can't find anything to extrapolate at the current time with your answers there.

  7. #17
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    LIE Ni
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I gathered that you are probably an ENTP. I saw a bit of finesse in your argument from skimming it, with the employment of logical analysis being the way your present your idea (ENTP - Ne Hero, Ti Parent, Ne is relayed to others by Ti). I'll look at your answers in just a second and quote you there if need be.

    EDIT: No need, I can't find anything to extrapolate at the current time with your answers there.
    Alright, I think I'm fairly certain I'm an ENTP now. But just for curiosity's sake, what did you think of my first answer? The one where I mentioned my tendency to note subtle variations in facial expressions and posted a video from Star Trek.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    Alright, I think I'm fairly certain I'm an ENTP now. But just for curiosity's sake, what did you think of my first answer? The one where I mentioned my tendency to note subtle variations in facial expressions and posted a video from Star Trek.
    Unconscious Fe, noting people's emotional states and drawing in the emotions to be interpreted via people's facial expressions. Of course, this process isn't truly as unconscious as, say, the inferior function since Fe is the Tertiary after all of the ENTP.

  9. #19
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    LIE Ni
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Incidentally, do you have any conjectures as to my enneagram type? That is the only remaining destination in my neophytic journey in the realm of typology!

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    ~8 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    I recently had a YouTube argument (yeah, I occasionally get into those) where the topic, in a vague way, was about morality. Perhaps you can derive some conclusions from the way I argue. Hopefully, you watch football and know what the context of the argument is, although I would say that it's easy to understand.
    Sure it was easy to figure out the context.

    I'll say it's kind of weird to me that you'd value the team over yourself so much. Maybe that's an enneagram thing though, see below.

    You're not a Fi-dom for sure. In the context of MBTI, you honestly almost sound like an xxFJ in the first argument, IMO. So much Fe... Have you ever considered Fe > Ti for yourself? Tho' I'm not saying you can't be ENTP.

    Btw I had to smile here: "...more important than preserving your moral integrity. The latter just sounds selfish." Yeah selfish morality, I totally agree :P


    I don't know, depends on what kind of logical systems you're referring to. It has always seemed like a vague combination of words to me. But, the best way to make me understand a concept is to use metaphors, or to a lesser extent, anecdotes.
    How does it depend on what kind of logical systems? Give me examples?


    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    Alright, I think I'm fairly certain I'm an ENTP now. But just for curiosity's sake, what did you think of my first answer? The one where I mentioned my tendency to note subtle variations in facial expressions and posted a video from Star Trek.
    I checked that video before and compared it to your description; honestly the stuff you were writing about so enthusiastically escaped me almost entirely. I mean I probably noticed those things but only on some unconscious level. While you noted them in such a conscious way that you readily verbalized your observations. I think if this is the Fe function, then your Fe is more developed and a lot more conscious than mine. (Not that it's hard for most people to be better at Fe than me :P )


    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Enigma View Post
    Incidentally, do you have any conjectures as to my enneagram type? That is the only remaining destination in my neophytic journey in the realm of typology!
    You got some strong superego enneagram fix based on the football stuff. That, and/or a good soc instinct.

Similar Threads

  1. Romney vs. Obama; Te(Fi) vs. Ti(Fe)
    By Istbkleta in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  2. How can I know Fi/Te from Ti/Fe?
    By Elemental Chaos in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-22-2010, 10:30 AM
  3. Let's Discuss Te/Fi,Fi/Te vs. Ti/Fe, Fe/Ti
    By Thalassa in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-04-2010, 02:30 PM
  4. Fi/Te vs. Ti/Fe?
    By Cloudblue in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-15-2010, 10:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO