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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Congrats, you're an Ni-valuer.

    Gulenko would also be proud to see his 'if then else' style thinking for Dialectical-Algorithmic laid out so clearly.

    Although Number 6 would be indicative of rather weak Fi (possibly Trickster/PoLR), your analysis of the flower is more inclined to show animosity to Fe.

    * The amateur might confuse this with Ne,
    The "amateur" might also take one or two sentences out of context of the rest of the post and base everything on those. See above.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfAwesome View Post
    I think I am somewhat guilty of attaching sentiment to objects. A few years ago, my house underwent a renovation where all the furniture was to be replaced. I remember feeling quite despondent. I felt as if I was losing a part of my identity. I did not normally care about those objects, indeed they were usually invisible to me. Physical objects often are invisible to me, as a matter of fact. Maybe that's why I frequently bump into them. But when the time came for them to be taken away, I was displeased. It's comparable to the scene from Fight Club where the narrator laments over having his apartment burned. Perhaps it's just the "you don't know what you have until it's gone" instance.
    This might be interesting reading for you:
    http://typeindepth.com/2011/12/fight-club-functions/

  3. #13
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The "amateur" might also take one or two sentences out of context of the rest of the post and base everything on those. See above.
    Perhaps those sentences were the most notable, besides, of course, the swiveling of opinion as seen in the article example, which indicates a preference for Te due to the primary acceptance of the initial argument without critically analyzing the article until the counterargument is poised by the commentators. Also, the inability to understand why his mind changes so quickly indicates that the introverted logical function is an unconscious process, in the demonstrative position due to its subsequent effect on the nature of the individual while seemingly remaining out of the calculations of the conscious mind. The other function that would cause this would be the introverted ethical function, which isn't applicable to the presented situation. Also, before the third question's derailment caused by the individual's need to work in the information and reminisce on indecision, (characterizing the irrational type) we see that, in this question, the individual attempts to predict the 'atmosphere' of the party and assess his own mood to make a decision about whether or not he would want to go to the after-party, appealing to the dynamism of the introverted intuition function rather than the entrepreneurial assessment of the extroverted intuition function, which would attempt to provide what could possibly happen at the party that could be of entertainment value or any other form of objective value, instead of appealing to what the after-party probably will be, like the introverted intuition function would.

    Question number 6, as well, is an interesting answer, due primarily to the fact that the apparent absence of values would serve to prove that either the introverted ethics function would be the individual's PoLR (and thus making him an ENTp) or one of the unconscious functions in a person's mental block (in the JCF model's case, the inevitable, conscious tertiary function, thus making him an INTp). Further down the answer, however, we find the rumination of basing decisions on ethics or logic with the perfect vehicle of Batman. Assuming that the individual relates to Batman's situation due to the fact that he mentioned him, the values associated with introverted ethics, are then reinforced by extroverted thinking (extroverted logic due to the practicality of the logic and its subsequent entrepreneurial dynamism), meaning that the values made unconsciously with introverted ethics are justified/defended consciously by the rationalization of the extroverted logical function, meaning that the unconscious values produced by introverted ethics are followed by the conscious rationalization of extroverted thinking, an axis*. This, of course, assumes that the individual mentioned batman due to personal resonance, which could still be off-base.

    Of course, there is much more evidence that can be drawn, but due to the fact that I'm extremely lazy, I went with the more easily explainable analyses of answers that were, surprisingly, not taken out of context, in an effort to save time.

    *Though I will waste time in explaining this magnificent concept, which Socionics has beautifully laid out. Take the INTp, for example, with the two axes of Te Creative and Fi Mobilizing, and Ti Demonstrative and Fe Vulnerable. In the first axis, the unconscious function produces values, and the conscious function rationally produces explanations for holding those values that may or may not align with the value (as mentioned in the batman case above); in the second axis, however, the demonstrative, unconscious function of Ti provides rational answers for failures in the Vulnerable PoLR function without the help of the conscious mind, due to the fact that the Vulnerable function is the conscious function in this axis. The Fe PoLR, in this case, is analyzed logically by Ti Demonstrative to explain the shortcomings of the vulnerable function. Fascinating, isn't it?

  4. #14
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    This might be interesting reading for you:
    http://typeindepth.com/2011/12/fight-club-functions/
    That was an interesting read. Thanks for your assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Perhaps those sentences were the most notable, besides, of course, the swiveling of opinion as seen in the article example, which indicates a preference for Te due to the primary acceptance of the initial argument without critically analyzing the article until the counterargument is poised by the commentators. Also, the inability to understand why his mind changes so quickly indicates that the introverted logical function is an unconscious process, in the demonstrative position due to its subsequent effect on the nature of the individual while seemingly remaining out of the calculations of the conscious mind. The other function that would cause this would be the introverted ethical function, which isn't applicable to the presented situation. Also, before the third question's derailment caused by the individual's need to work in the information and reminisce on indecision, (characterizing the irrational type) we see that, in this question, the individual attempts to predict the 'atmosphere' of the party and assess his own mood to make a decision about whether or not he would want to go to the after-party, appealing to the dynamism of the introverted intuition function rather than the entrepreneurial assessment of the extroverted intuition function, which would attempt to provide what could possibly happen at the party that could be of entertainment value or any other form of objective value, instead of appealing to what the after-party probably will be, like the introverted intuition function would.

    Question number 6, as well, is an interesting answer, due primarily to the fact that the apparent absence of values would serve to prove that either the introverted ethics function would be the individual's PoLR (and thus making him an ENTp) or one of the unconscious functions in a person's mental block (in the JCF model's case, the inevitable, conscious tertiary function, thus making him an INTp). Further down the answer, however, we find the rumination of basing decisions on ethics or logic with the perfect vehicle of Batman. Assuming that the individual relates to Batman's situation due to the fact that he mentioned him, the values associated with introverted ethics, are then reinforced by extroverted thinking (extroverted logic due to the practicality of the logic and its subsequent entrepreneurial dynamism), meaning that the values made unconsciously with introverted ethics are justified/defended consciously by the rationalization of the extroverted logical function, meaning that the unconscious values produced by introverted ethics are followed by the conscious rationalization of extroverted thinking, an axis*. This, of course, assumes that the individual mentioned batman due to personal resonance, which could still be off-base.

    Of course, there is much more evidence that can be drawn, but due to the fact that I'm extremely lazy, I went with the more easily explainable analyses of answers that were, surprisingly, not taken out of context, in an effort to save time.

    *Though I will waste time in explaining this magnificent concept, which Socionics has beautifully laid out. Take the INTp, for example, with the two axes of Te Creative and Fi Mobilizing, and Ti Demonstrative and Fe Vulnerable. In the first axis, the unconscious function produces values, and the conscious function rationally produces explanations for holding those values that may or may not align with the value (as mentioned in the batman case above); in the second axis, however, the demonstrative, unconscious function of Ti provides rational answers for failures in the Vulnerable PoLR function without the help of the conscious mind, due to the fact that the Vulnerable function is the conscious function in this axis. The Fe PoLR, in this case, is analyzed logically by Ti Demonstrative to explain the shortcomings of the vulnerable function. Fascinating, isn't it?
    That was an informative analysis. I've been researching about Socionics lately and discovered the theory of sub-types. Which ILI subtype would you say I am? Incidentally, just for added clarification, can you tell me about the discrepancies between Te and Ti? And also Fe and Fi, for that matter.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfAwesome View Post
    Anyone? I am Jack's anxious ball of curiosity. Disregard my signature, by the way.
    Lovely wording so you're not going to escape my opinion!

    Tho, I wish you hadn't mentioned your sig because I didn't notice it until then


    By the way, here's an eccentricity of mine. I never really know what my opinion is. I just... perceive. For example, I was recently reading a Youtube argument and I kept going back and forth between both the sides of the argument, even if they were contradictory. I didn't even know what my opinion on the matter was. I was just watching, like a spectator.
    Would you be happier if you did reach a decision on the matter eventually? I'm asking because of socionics.

    In MBTI, this is something with strong Ne, but not sure about socionics.


    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfAwesome View Post
    Hmmm, interesting. I'm most curious about Se as an inferior function. How does it manifest in one's thought process? And yes, I always thought there was something wrong with Ne. It never seemed to fit altogether. I was more inclined towards Ni, but then I realized I must have Ne because I was under the fallacious assumption that I was also an Si user. Fallacy in my tendency to associate Si with nostalgia and recollection of past experiences. I'm prone to hyper-analyzing my past, going to the extent as to assign ratings to the years and comparing months. For some reason, it's a delightful mental exercise. I often used it to search for trends and predict my future. I even came up with an elaborate theory concerning this.
    Mind me asking what you mean by assigning ratings to years? According to what criteria? I ask because I do the same

    I didn't really ever want to relate that idiosyncrasy of mine to any function though

    If you want, feel free to associate nostalgia with Si in MBTI but in socionics nostalgia is something else.


    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfAwesome View Post
    As a matter of fact, I often look towards materialistic pleasures to distract me
    I wouldn't assign this tidbit of info to one specific function or function position. I've done the same before to crazy extremes and I don't have Se-inferior.


    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfAwesome View Post
    Guilty as charged. In fact, the brain tumor example has happened to me on many occasions.
    That sort of stuff is associated with any kind of weak Si in socionics. Any N type really.

    Oh and yes I have no doubt you're an N type of some sort.

    Overall, you know best how you think. What you like to focus on the most, what you will focus on automatically without you even trying, what stuff makes absolutely no sense to you, and so on. I don't believe in the existence of a specific dominant function - heresy on this forum I know!!! -, best to look at these function thingies as these largely habitual attitudes that are not exclusive - no exclusive dominant as I said - and can even shift over time; and of course there is more than just 8 such atittudes making things even less "neat" in reality.

    *rant end*


    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Indulgence and/or Overindulgence/Underindulgence is more in the department of Introverted Sensation, but inferior Se can manifest itself through either the unconscious need to be solving/doing something and/or finishing work, but this doesn't always happen because (and transition to Socionics) the INTp is a relatively inactive, sluggish type due to the melancholic Ip temperament, and thus relies on Se to act as the Dual-Seeking function, which means that it attempts to drawn in the Se lead ESFp dual to help motivate (properly) the INTp to assert themselves and do things/finsih things and/or help the INTp with Se related matters. There can be an unconscious sense of needing to do something, however, even if the Se-inferior/DS type doesn't necessarily always do it.
    So for lazy procrastinating Se-egos, such as myself, the needing to do something is different in that it's more conscious for them?

    Though, I easily flick the feeling away and go back to whatever else I'm doing.

    Btw, have you ever spent time with Se-lead types IRL? How did they help you? And, would OP relate to that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    At some point, I'll begin to do some quick calculations in my head, taking into account the time on the watch, the time remaining for the concert to begin, the assumed time it would take for the car to repair, the assumed speed of the car and the distance to the concert and find out if I would be able to arrive at the concert in time.
    Congrats, you're an Ni-valuer.
    Hmm really, I relate to this but I thought these calculation thingies were Ti for me.

    I sometimes really don't see where one ends and where the other starts for me :P (Ti vs Ni)


    Although Number 6 would be indicative of rather weak Fi (possibly Trickster/PoLR), your analysis of the flower is more inclined to show animosity to Fe.
    No shit man, I have the same animosity towards a lot of Fe stuff. More towards the MBTI version of it though and there the definition of an inferior, negative and largely unaccepted Fe conveniently fits this phenomenon. Socionics still works for me tho' because Fe is differently defined there and I can be somewhat more positive about that one. Maybe.

    I wanted to say, I related to OP's weak Fi pretty well. I liked the Batman example showing how it's not ever going to be logical at all. :P

    Whatever these tidbits of data mean.

  6. #16
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    First of all, thank you for taking the time to analyze!
    To be honest, I'm not sure whether I would be happy with reaching a decision as much as my disappointment with the realization that I had no opinions of my own. It's as if my perspective on things is often derived from the external world and that sometimes leaves me feeling inauthentic and mechanical.
    As a matter of fact, I like being in the company of Se-doms. They are relaxed, humorous and delightfully tranquil in a weird sense because the typical definition associated with tranquility won't be fit for my encounters with them. They have this omnipresent urge to just do things, while I'm the one usually trying to prolong doing things. I'd rather just sit back and wait for events to unfold until I know it's time for me to take action. I actually mentioned this to one of them and he accused me of extenuating my tendency to be lazy by using 'flashy words and shit', haha.

    I assign ratings based on how important the events of that month were (particularly with respect to my growth) and what my state of the mind was back then. Level of enjoyment is also a factor.

  7. #17
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    Anyone else willing to offer their opinions?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    @infinity- I have a really good SLE ESTp friend, and he is a prime motivator with the amount of energy he puts forward. There is a bit of a "throw everything at it and don't stop 'till its done" mentality that is fairly complementary to my long-range thinking. Whenever I and him are working together on something I will lay down the plan while he will implement it with great force. I suspect him to be an ESTp-Se subtype due to simply how aggressive he is as a person and how he exerts so much force.

    Also, the needing to do something is consciously arrived at with the Se-Ego types, and through its defining nature of self-assertion and the hoarding of resources, Se-Ego types will almost always know what they want out of something, they know exactly what is to gain, and know how much force will be required to get it. My ESTp friend, in particular, will always get what he wants usually simply because he knows that he will not back down but instead escalate with the application of force to him. Lazy Se-Ego types aren't uncommon, due to the fact that Se-Ego types will exert force for something that they personally want or want done; in cases where the job is deemed pointless or mundane, the Se-Ego type will either respond with the "Get it over with" mentality to clear up ambiguities (heavy emphasis on the ISxj) or the forceful "Fuck it" mentality.

    By the way, the Role function undoubtedly links to the Demonic Personality Complex, the only way it wouldn't would be if someone were to glance at the two models and assume that both the PoLR and the D.P.C are the weakest functions of both systems and simply compare them instead of their characteristics, such as how the D.P.C conflicts with the Hero in such a way that the Hero is suppressed and halted completely, exactly like the Role Function in Socionics, which suppresses the Lead function when used and can actually be used like a 'blunt weapon' as Eric B put it. ILE's Se is in particular rather scary, due to the fact that it inflates much like the Hidden Agenda but is taken much more seriously by both the audience and the user, completely suppressing the Lead Ne and leaving a rather angry intellectual Pseudo-ESTp. (The original reply was a joke)

  9. #19
    Wandering... Emperor Enigma's Avatar
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    So, it is established that I'm an INTJ (or at least an Ni-ego), right? Of course, I'm open to more interpretations. Incidentally, ESTp-Ti seems like an interesting possibility. I do tend to get remarkably (remarkable because I'm usually cool and passive) assertive and impulsive at times, particularly when I'm in a hurry or under stress or playing sports (although still not as much as the others I often wonder why they become so serious). Of course, that might be inferior Se.

  10. #20
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    Anyone?
    Incidentally, I also want to know how the PoLR manifests with respect to each function. I think that is the easiest way to determine your type.

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