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Mistyped TypeCentral Members

Phoenix

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
328
MBTI Type
XNTX
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Exactly. That is my point. It is not about behavior, but about the whys and hows, even in MBTI. Why does someone want (or not want) to fit in? In what way do they want to fit in? What does "fitting in" mean to them? What kind of group do they want to fit into, and where do they actually feel comfortable? What are they willing to do/sacrifice to fit in? How do they feel/react if rejected or eventually kicked out? As I mentioned on some thread (here?), any type can exhibit any behavior, but will have different reasons and methods for doing so.

I agree with you ... but I found that instinctual variant descriptions just make more sense and are deeper when it comes to describing our interaction with the world.

It's said that so-types are more naturally inclined towards wanting to fit in to groups, or belong to a larger group [though other types when under stress, and not getting the requirements of their dominant instinctual variant met will be pre-disposed towards engaging in behaviour that mimics other variants]. Therefore, it is logical to assume that even introverts with a dominant so-type would be naturally inclined towards wanting to belong to a group ... and on the flip, if an extrovert is an sp-type, then they may come across more as an introvert.

If one is not naturally inclined to be a part of a group, then they are most likely an sp or an sx type. I think instinctual variants have some correlations with introversion and extroversion in MBTI terms ... and when Meyers-Briggs were talking about introversion or extroversion, they combined both the concepts of direction of energies proposed by Jung as well as over-looked a person's natural instincts which happen to be just better explained through Enneagrams.
 

Phoenix

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
328
MBTI Type
XNTX
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Same here. It's a bit frustrating in those moments where I decide to try to take it somewhat seriously.

It is frustrating indeed not being able to determine one's type because of disorders.

Took me more than a year of studying to finally figure it - but then I got hit with the Bipolar I diagnosis and that threw me off again. Now I've decided to stick with what I've typed myself as till new information reveals itself - which I doubt since I spent a year analysing every part of my brain through my journals, memories, e-mails, interactions ... left no stone unturned.
 

Pseudo

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,051
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I disagree. But would like you to elaborate on your thoughts.

Fitting in, or not wanting to fit in is a motive, not a cognitive process as far as I can tell. In other words .. Enneagram as opposed to JCF.



How can you have motives without first having thought processes? To be more clear, I think NFs tend to have these ideas about fitting in/ not fitting because of how they experience and think of the world.
 

Pseudo

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,051
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Thanks for agreeing. It seems everything that isn't blatantly NT is NF. As far as my motivation for not fitting into boxes: as I've said many times, I started out really wanting to fit into a box, because I like to categorize things. I just see the big picture when I think, and ultimately it didn't work. Now I've been forced to mostly abandon the idea of putting people into boxes in general.

And about Enneagram in regards to me: 5w4 is just a guess. I really have no idea. But I'm curious as to which number you are thinking this corresponds to.

It's not that anything NT is NF. It's just that you in particular seem NF.


As for the usefulness of people in boxes, it's a 16 option system for nearly 7 million people. Of course it's not going to be perfectly fitted to you. It's just a general outline
 

ilikeitlikethat

You're unbelievable ...
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
2,158
MBTI Type
xNTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
If I was mistyped, although I don't think I was, based on 1 test, and, 1 rather gratifying yet, brutally honest Wikipedia page about the MBTI type that I got. - If I was mistyped, although I doubt I actually was, can someone please move my blog out of the NT blog section and into whatever blog section turns out to be the section of my type's blogs?; If it turns out I'm not an NT, that is. - I'm still me, I both don't wanna and cba to make another blog, if that ever happens. TY, if you do. Gracias/Domo arigatou gozaimasu/Merci beaucoup, too...

Stuff I've written, works of art, stories, screenplays and poetry/lyrics, that I've typed through this text analyzer engine that I found in a thread, here :D; came back as another type, I deduce that..; I was influenced by that type? - IDK, I'm still the type that I got. - Well, I got a type, then remembered that the 'I and the E one' was really tough, so tough in fact; I took a while to answer that particular 'this or that' question, so I x'ed it; Based on what I've learned about MBTI types so far with my membership of this fine forum. :)
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's not that anything NT is NF. It's just that you in particular seem NF.
I know, that's the defense. But I don't think it's the entire truth. I think people are unconsciously (and consciously) biased based on stereotypes and psychological attachments they have to them.

As for the usefulness of people in boxes, it's a 16 option system for nearly 7 million people. Of course it's not going to be perfectly fitted to you. It's just a general outline
Which is why its usefulness and accuracy in describing anything is limited proportionally.

These somewhat arbitrary categories we are so fond of remind me of Epicurus' idea of forms and the criticisms of them. What it comes down to is that we have a thinking awareness independent from objects, and forms are what we use to make sense of those; however we can never have true knowledge of the objects or the forms themselves.

Furthermore, if it's expected to not be a perfect fit and only a general outline, I think you just argued against your own opinion. I can't be faulted in persisting in my notion that I fit a type well enough though not perfectly, if it's not expected to fit perfectly, nor is any other type. If all types are an imperfect fit, then degree of imperfection is more or less entirely subjective, and arguing the point is fruitless.
 

Burger King

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
338
How can you have motives without first having thought processes?

You can't (actually "can't" is a bit strong, motives can be subconscious), but that's not the point. If you want to explain motives and behavior it's best to look into another system, say the enneagram for example, as it's something catered to what you're looking at (fitting in/not fitting in). I think that's what Phoenix was getting at. It's also easier to observe, since fixations bleed into your actions. Plus, I've seen my fair share of NTs complain about fitting into boxes. It is the reasoning behind it that differs. How they go about reasoning would be MBTI territory, but the 'why' would be enneagram territory.

To be more clear, I think NFs tend to have these ideas about fitting in/ not fitting because of how they experience and think of the world.

How do NFs experience and think of the world that would lead to such thinking then?
 
Last edited:

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How can you have motives without first having thought processes? To be more clear, I think NFs tend to have these ideas about fitting in/ not fitting because of how they experience and think of the world.

There are many notions of "fitting in." There is social acceptance, the individual fitting into a group, driven by Fe; there is conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to; there is a personal relationship created by understanding of the former without such limitations, which Fi strives for; there is to have one's actions have affect in the world in an efficient manner, to make ideas of action consistent with effectiveness, which is striven for by Te; to have one's perceived ideas fit into an internally conceived logical framework, which is the goal of Ti; to have the individual who has perception of experiences fit into the big picture of everything which is the cause of experiences, which is the goal of Si; for information perceived by the senses to fit into a comprehensive picture of (concrete and tangible) reality, which is the goal of Se; the same for abstract and intangible reality which is Ne; and for all that is perceived with the intuition both external and internal to fit into the big picture of abstract and intangible reality from a subjective standpoint, which is Ni.

Pray tell, which of these and in what order do you presume apply to me, and to what degree? Since you seem to think you know enough about my desire to fit in to label me NF.

You can't, but that's not the point. If you want to explain motives and behavior it's best to look into another system, say the enneagram for example, as it's something catered to what you're looking at (fitting in/not fitting in). I think that's what Phoenix was getting at. It's also easier to observe, since fixations bleed into your actions. Plus, I've seen my fair share of NTs complain about fitting into boxes. It is the reasoning behind it that differs. How they go about reasoning would be MBTI territory, but the 'why' would be enneagram territory.



How do NFs experience and think of the world that would lead to such thinking then?
Very interesting, and another phrasing of the above response.
 

SpankyMcFly

Level 8 Propaganda Bot
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
2,349
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
461
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Ok I am going to out myself. I´m a FAKE INFP. There I said it.

I like music waaaay too much, have been known to dance for hours to good music, lose myself to the sound-feeling, I´ve described it as melding. I used to love clubbing during my younger days. I appreciate the sound not so much as the lyrics. I´m practical and William James´s quote on philosophy sums up my thoughts on the subject ¨Most of philosophy is meaningless because their questions don´t make a difference. If the question makes a difference makes the question meaningfull, if not, not...¨ Just a bunch of mental masturbation. I like mainstream things to boot! I´ve never had a creative outlet, i.e. playing an instrument, writing, sculpting etc.

I feel so dirty for being such a fraud *wrists*

P.S. Don´t hate me too much ventrilo regulars, I can no longer live the LIE!
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
If I was mistyped, although I don't think I was, based on 1 test, and, 1 rather gratifying yet, brutally honest Wikipedia page about the MBTI type that I got. - If I was mistyped, although I doubt I actually was, can someone please move my blog out of the NT blog section and into whatever blog section turns out to be the section of my type's blogs?; If it turns out I'm not an NT, that is. - I'm still me, I both don't wanna and cba to make another blog, if that ever happens. TY, if you do. Gracias/Domo arigatou gozaimasu/Merci beaucoup, too...

Stuff I've written, works of art, stories, screenplays and poetry/lyrics, that I've typed through this text analyzer engine that I found in a thread, here :D; came back as another type, I deduce that..; I was influenced by that type? - IDK, I'm still the type that I got. - Well, I got a type, then remembered that the 'I and the E one' was really tough, so tough in fact; I took a while to answer that particular 'this or that' question, so I x'ed it; Based on what I've learned about MBTI types so far with my membership of this fine forum. :)

I think a good method for distinguishing I and E preferences is to look at the dominant and inferior functions; ENTP is Ne dominant and INTP is Ti dominant. The dominant function drives your thought processes and frames how you understand the world. Ne is perceiving and Ti is judging. Is it more natural for you to take in information and process it into a framework as the need arises, preferring to interact with the world, or to maintain a logical framework and limit incoming information until it can be assimilated, preferring to observe the world? ENTP has inferior Si, and INTP has inferior Fe. The inferior function is one you use in conjunction with your other active processes, but not very well. (The shadow functions by contrast are rather passive functions, surfacing when they are needed by the active ones.) I'd rather not try to summarize the inferior functions here, but there are great articles about them. Lastly, do you feel the need to spend the majority of your time socializing, or simply enjoy it? Conversely, do you feel the need to spend a certain amount of time alone until you make the decision not to be, or do you more of the time spend time alone because circumstances necessitate it?
 

Phoenix

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
328
MBTI Type
XNTX
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How can you have motives without first having thought processes? To be more clear, I think NFs tend to have these ideas about fitting in/ not fitting because of how they experience and think of the world.

Yes. But even if motives originate from thought processes, it remains unclear which type would be motivated to do what.

I can agree with the supposition that there may be a pre-inclined disposition of say an Fe dominant individual to objectively evaluate what their motivations are through extroverted feeling - but what the motivation by itself would be cannot be determined through thought processes.

In other words, you can type a person in JCF as a particular type based on what their thought processes are, but not based on what their motivations are.

The realm of motivation is Enneagram and social behaviour is instincts -- especially with regards to wanting to fit in and belonging ... It's just much better explained there than Jung or Meyers ever did.

However, the core difference also is that Enneagrams are very much a psycho-spiritual system as opposed to pure psychology - which is what Jung is. MBTI and Kiersey however, is Pop Culture psychology in my opinion and using them in conjunction with JCF is detrimental to typing methodology. If one wants to analyse themselves purely, then they need to study Jung with the knowledge that MBTI and Kiersey are based off of his work.

They all want to talk about the same thing - but they're not all completely accurate. By putting it all together into 1 system, you may have a relatively complete psychological profile of an individual.
 

Phoenix

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
328
MBTI Type
XNTX
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think a good method for distinguishing I and E preferences is to look at the dominant and inferior functions;

This again fails if an ENTP is not a stereotypical E-Type 739 trifixer. If you take a look at unhealthy Type 7 behaviours and Naomi Quenk's Inferior Si description, you'll notice a lot of over-lap.

For example: Unhealthy behaviours in Inferior Si

For ENTPs and ENFPs in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing, the inward focus of energy is unfamiliar and disturbing.The diminution of Extraverted energy results in feelings of sadness and despair.Tertiary Thinking or Feeling may emerge as well. For ENTPs this comes out in a conviction that no one understands them or cares about them; they may become emotional and vulnerable in this state. ENFPs may demonstrate perverse logic and accuse others of not being rational, insisting that logic is the only acceptable criterion for making a decision.

In mildly stressful or fatiguing situations, an uneasiness about facts comes out in projected form as a pickiness and obsessiveness about what would otherwise be judged by the Extraverted Intuitive type to be irrelevant detail.

The above also sounds like a disintegration line to the 1.

Compared with 7 Unhealthy behaviours:

Level 6: Get into conspicuous consumption and all forms of excess. Self-centered, materialistic, and greedy, never feeling that they have enough. Demanding and pushy, yet unsatisfied and jaded. Addictive, hardened, and insensitive.

Level 7: Desperate to quell their anxieties, can be impulsive and infantile: do not know when to stop. Addictions and excess take their toll: debauched, depraved, dissipated escapists, offensive and abusive.

There's a lot more over-lap, but I pointed out what I noticed as most obvious. My guess is that ENxP's of different E-types that are non-typical will have [and probably do have] a harder time relating to the inferior function description --- because that too is based on observation of the most typical.

Additional point is that Naomi Quenk lumped both ENTP's and ENFP's together.

What this does is while there's talk of actual behaviour and relating back to cognitive functions, the assertions seem more shaky when Enneagram is added to the mix again.

ENTP's and ENFP's most common E-Type is Type 7 ... however, type 9 and 4 is relatively more common for ENFP's than it is for ENTP's, while Type 3 and 8 is common for ENTP's and not for ENFP's which adds more elements of additional unhealthy behaviours which may or may not be entirely accurate for each specific individual.

With all this complexity thrown into the mix, inferior function descriptions alone still fail at giving a complete map in the end. It's just one of the many tools available in my opinion.
 

Pseudo

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,051
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I know, that's the defense. But I don't think it's the entire truth. I think people are unconsciously (and consciously) biased based on stereotypes and psychological attachments they have to them.


Which is why its usefulness and accuracy in describing anything is limited proportionally.

These somewhat arbitrary categories we are so fond of remind me of Epicurus' idea of forms and the criticisms of them. What it comes down to is that we have a thinking awareness independent from objects, and forms are what we use to make sense of those; however we can never have true knowledge of the objects or the forms themselves.

Furthermore, if it's expected to not be a perfect fit and only a general outline, I think you just argued against your own opinion. I can't be faulted in persisting in my notion that I fit a type well enough though not perfectly, if it's not expected to fit perfectly, nor is any other type. If all types are an imperfect fit, then degree of imperfection is more or less entirely subjective, and arguing the point is fruitless.

I can observe a color as being between blue and purple while recognizing that it is clearly not orange. A color wheel shows only a few colors from the spectrum but it is a use full guide still in observing colors.

If you were an authority loving traditionalist I would call you an SJ. If you were and action oriented first responder I'd Go with SP.

My uncemsored opinion is that you have a great desire to prove how smart you are to everyone, see above pontifications, and you falsely equivocate NT with intelligence. Hence the insitance that you are the übermensch existing as all type at all times. It's not impossible for dominant Fis to be interested in logic, but that dowsn't mean they become Ti dominant.

It's pretty straight forward to me. Of you don't display XX traits you are probably no an XX.
 

Pseudo

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
2,051
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
You can't (actually "can't" is a bit strong, motives can be subconscious), but that's not the point. If you want to explain motives and behavior it's best to look into another system, say the enneagram for example, as it's something catered to what you're looking at (fitting in/not fitting in). I think that's what Phoenix was getting at. It's also easier to observe, since fixations bleed into your actions. Plus, I've seen my fair share of NTs complain about fitting into boxes. It is the reasoning behind it that differs. How they go about reasoning would be MBTI territory, but the 'why' would be enneagram territory.



How do NFs experience and think of the world that would lead to such thinking then?

Mostly thinking of dominant Fi users and their desire for individual integrity. They seem to have more righteous indignation than other types, who may dislike being labeled, but don't have such a "stance" against it.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ESTP? I'm pretty sure I'm an N, but not sure I'm not an extrovert. So ENTP might be correct. Why do you think S? Or are you joking?
Quite so, old chap. Quite so. :)
I love Victorian England. I think in my past life in the 20's I was a ballerina in NY. (A very NT thing to say for sure.) ;)
That's what she said.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Is this why you think I'm ESTP, UniqueMixture? lol

them typing you as an Se dom is kinda ridiculous. I think you're INFJ 9w1 Sx/So
as for your tritype
gut: 9w1 (specifically 9w1sw1w2, ie, 9w1 with a strong wing as opposed to a 9w1 with more balanced wings)
heart: 2w3, 2w1 or 4w5
head: 6w7 or 7w6
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This again fails if an ENTP is not a stereotypical E-Type 739 trifixer. If you take a look at unhealthy Type 7 behaviours and Naomi Quenk's Inferior Si description, you'll notice a lot of over-lap.

For example: Unhealthy behaviours in Inferior Si





The above also sounds like a disintegration line to the 1.

Compared with 7 Unhealthy behaviours:



There's a lot more over-lap, but I pointed out what I noticed as most obvious. My guess is that ENxP's of different E-types that are non-typical will have [and probably do have] a harder time relating to the inferior function description --- because that too is based on observation of the most typical.

Additional point is that Naomi Quenk lumped both ENTP's and ENFP's together.

What this does is while there's talk of actual behaviour and relating back to cognitive functions, the assertions seem more shaky when Enneagram is added to the mix again.

ENTP's and ENFP's most common E-Type is Type 7 ... however, type 9 and 4 is relatively more common for ENFP's than it is for ENTP's, while Type 3 and 8 is common for ENTP's and not for ENFP's which adds more elements of additional unhealthy behaviours which may or may not be entirely accurate for each specific individual.

With all this complexity thrown into the mix, inferior function descriptions alone still fail at giving a complete map in the end. It's just one of the many tools available in my opinion.

That sounds reasonable, and I will be one of the first to agree that extenuating circumstances affect type in such a way as to make some people either atypical or untypable. However, for people without those circumstances the system is pretty useful, and going about it as I suggested fits with the system.

I can observe a color as being between blue and purple while recognizing that it is clearly not orange. A color wheel shows only a few colors from the spectrum but it is a use full guide still in observing colors.

If you were an authority loving traditionalist I would call you an SJ. If you were and action oriented first responder I'd Go with SP.

My uncemsored opinion is that you have a great desire to prove how smart you are to everyone, see above pontifications, and you falsely equivocate NT with intelligence. Hence the insitance that you are the übermensch existing as all type at all times. It's not impossible for dominant Fis to be interested in logic, but that dowsn't mean they become Ti dominant.

It's pretty straight forward to me. Of you don't display XX traits you are probably no an XX.

Traits are not that straightforward, nor are they or the corresponding types as obvious as colors. You're taking a vague type with vague characteristics, which can be shared by other types, and then picking out one to categorize someone as one of those vague types. That neither gives you an accurate understanding of the whole picture, nor does it really fit with the system because you're not following distinctions. You're following the logic that all people of a type have X characteristic, and as you said yourself, there are 16 types for 7 billion people; so really that's kind of irrational. If you're categorizing people based on a single trait using generalizations, that has in it the possibility for error. So you can't persist in your conclusions if the subject is shown to be outside the area of the generalization.

Whether or not I feel the need to prove my intelligence has nothing to do with the truth of my arguments.

As to your comment, I recently wrote a paper on Epicurus for one of my philosophy classes, and I like to apply what I learn to life. I like connecting ideas and discussing philosophy. The fact that you view it as pontification rather than a chance to explore truth would suggest that you don't like objectively discussing ideas as much as the standard INTP, if I am to follow your line of reasoning.

"conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to;."
This one.
Wrong. I have said many times that this does not apply to me. At all. And I've explained why in great detail. If you don't bother to read my posts, don't bother to try to type me. Do you have any other (erroneous) information on which to base a type opinion? And you didn't answer my question, I asked for a full profile of my motivations to fit in as they apply to the cognitive functions, as I described; you only picked out one, which doesn't translate to a type. If you can't, I'd say you have no grounds on which to correlate my motivations with type.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
them typing you as an Se dom is kinda ridiculous. I think you're INFJ 9w1 Sx/So
as for your tritype
gut: 9w1 (specifically 9w1sw1w2, ie, 9w1 with a strong wing as opposed to a 9w1 with more balanced wings)
heart: 2w3, 2w1 or 4w5
head: 6w7 or 7w6

INFJ: probably.
9-2-6. Interesting. I never thought of myself as the first two. I feel like all of these motivations apply to everyone, and trying to rank them in order is kind of useless; it seems like it's better to just discern in which situations one has which motivations and then follow the corresponding advice. That's my opinion on the system, but it's not one I use. You could be right. The thing is, since I think everyone has them at one time or another, if one doesn't jump out as being primary I probably won't get anywhere; I could pick out all of these at different times if I dug deep enough into my psychology; and since I don't have every situation I've ever been in to assess at once, I could just list a bunch of them for each number. It sounds overwhelming. Do you have a shortcut? The test was relatively inconclusive because I was evenly split between 4 or 5 numbers.

(And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)
 
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