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  1. #6191
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @highlander
    long time to speak, but I still don't see you as a 6 at all. yes, you are security oriented, but there is a lot more to 6 than just security. other core neuroses include (source: Character and Neuroses by Claudio Naranjo)

    more on defense mechanisms

    additionally, Sexual 6 is an incredibly aggressive, reactive and defensive type. you are consistently calm, pretty much never lose your shit and lack the bravado and neuroticism of cp6.

    if you think you have a strong 6 component, maybe 5w6 Sx/Sp (could also see 1w9 or 3w4 as possibilities)?
    The lions share of 6s are SJs. An INTJ 6 might look a bit different than the norm.

    I wasn't sure about my type and so I was professionally typed by Katherine Chernick Fauvre in a one hour session (in addition to taking the tests). My previous test results had tended to come out as 8. A couple members here questioned that which is what drove me to find a definitive answer. I do have some attributes of 3. 5 and 1 don't fit me at all. I do actually think 6 fits. People don't see it here that much but I can actually be all three of those things you mentioned (reactive, aggressive and at times defensive).

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    Tri-type 639

  2. #6192
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The lions share of 6s are SJs. An INTJ 6 might look a bit different than the norm.

    I wasn't sure about my type and so I was professionally typed by Katherine Chernick Fauvre in a one hour session (in addition to taking the tests). My previous test results had tended to come out as 8. A couple members here questioned that which is what drove me to find a definitive answer. I do have some attributes of 3. 5 and 1 don't fit me at all. I do actually think 6 fits. People don't see it here that much but I can actually be all three of those things you mentioned (reactive, aggressive and at times defensive).
    interesting. the Fauvres and I have differing views on a lot of type related issues, but I can't argue with a professional typing.

    that said, when I think INTJ 6, I think more "conspiracy theorist". even as an INTJ, you are insanely calm for a cp6 lol
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  3. #6193
    Senior Member senza tema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    interesting. the Fauvres and I have differing views on a lot of type related issues, but I can't argue with a professional typing.

    that said, when I think INTJ 6, I think more "conspiracy theorist". even as an INTJ, you are insanely calm for a cp6 lol
    Highlander is a.) a middle aged man of some maturity and b.) owns the forum so I'm guessing the threat we little people pose to him is small enough that he's not gonna go around reacting all over the place.

  4. #6194
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Do I really seem FeNi?
    C#2-C#5-F#5
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  5. #6195
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    You kind of do
    In order for society to survive, we must all pitch in and cooperate with one another, split the resources fairly.
    If we get greedy, everything will fall apart
    The main reason why there is no long peace is because everything is set and stone.
    Another is that resources are limited and the ones who had the most goes bad because they are in control.

  6. #6196
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    Do I really seem FeNi?
    I have the same problem with your MBTI that I had with @Bush Did 9/11's MBTI way back when (when I seriously mistyped him). Both of you seem so damn 3 that I have a hard time seeing anything else.
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  7. #6197
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I have the same problem with your MBTI that I had with @Bush Did 9/11's MBTI way back when (when I seriously mistyped him). Both of you seem so damn 3 that I have a hard time seeing anything else.
    You know, being a 3 can be such a liability. I was just thinking about it this morning, and every single time, and I mean every single time, I get so frustrated and give up. It's like, I don't even know myself.
    C#2-C#5-F#5
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  8. #6198
    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    Buckle up kids, it's time I actually defend my 6 typing since like everyone wants to think I'm a 9 core since I had that listed for so long.

    Misidentifying Sixes and Nines
    These types are actually frequent mistyped. Sixes and Nines are both concerned with security and with maintaining some kind of status quo situation. They are both family-oriented, and both tend to take modest views of themselves. Their affect, however, is the easiest way to distinguish them.

    In short, Nines like to remain easy-going and unflappable. Nines work steadily at their tasks, but show little sign of being upset by the day’s ups and downs. Sixes, on the other hand, cannot easily disguise their feelings. They get more easily worked-up and rattled by mishaps. While Nines can remain silent within their own inner peace, Sixes need to vent with others periodically to discharge their fears and doubts. Sixes are more obviously nervous and defensive when they believe there are problems. Nines remain strangely bland in the face of problems, although beneath the pleasant surface of average Nines, there is stubborn resistance and an unwillingness to be upset or troubled by conflicts or problems. Sixes tend to be suspicious of unknown people and situations–they need to test people before they let them get close. Nines may be protected by the disengagement of their attention, but they tend to be trusting of others–almost to a fault.
    My mood is incredibly susceptible to whatever is going on moment to moment and I have a very hard time hiding my emotions and am more expressive than I like to think I am. I become incredibly negative and stubborn whenever dealing with a problem and need to vent to others; this is why my old blog is such a clusterfuck (6 plus my 4w3 fix).

    All of the bolded is so, so true for me. Everything I've crossed out is so incredibly untrue for me.

    Unless you've had the (unfortunate) opportunity to experience what I'm like during both times of trouble and how I am regularly on the forum (where I tend to be lighter and fluffier), I can easily see how people would see me as a core 9. After all, I'm rather phlegmatic, chill, "everyone just be cool." And I definitely do have a 9 fix and it's rather strong, but everyone who knows me well on a personal level insists that I'm a 6 core for many reasons, some of which overlap with the above.

    When facing problems, a 9 will dissociate from them and convince themselves that everything's fine and there really is no problem. I, on the other hand, am totally overtaken by anxiety and go into panic mode. There's no way I can try to pretend a problem just doesn't exist.

    Do I have a 9 in my tritype? ya. Is it pretty strong? ya. Is it my core? I don't actually think so. I used to. God I'd rather be a 9 than a 6. Even healthy 6 descriptions sound stressful.

    I have also never seen a single piece of writing that describes me with nearly as much accuracy as this: https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/sixes/
    Literally the entire thing.

    Being FeNe and having a 7 wing on my core gives me this sort of lightness and fluffiness that people are associating with 9. I don't consciously act different on the forum than I do in any other area of my life where I'm socializing and feel comfortable and safe doing so, but once you really start digging into me and the way I think and act it's pretty hard not to see the 6 core.
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  9. #6199
    Nyarlathotep ESFJ's Avatar
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    Nines
    Enneatype Nine

    Type Description

    People of enneatype Nine are essentially looking to maintain a sense of peace, harmony and balance and to avoid conflict and disruption. Nines tend to see the best in people, to be fundamentally optimistic about the future, and, when reasonably healthy, to have a calming and grounding effect on those around them. As a general rule, Nines are fairly “easy going;” they adopt a strategy of “going with the flow.” They intuitively know how to wait for the openings so that they can slip effortlessly into the stream. Nines don’t tend to “sweat the small stuff.” On the whole, they are self-effacing, tolerant, even-tempered and likable individuals. Nines aspire to be supportive, loving and gentle and more than any other enneatype, are likely to embody these valuable qualities. Given such a portrait, it might seem difficult to understand what is so problematic about the type Nine fixation. <--

    The central problem for Nines revolves around the fact that their desire to maintain (INNER) peace and to avoid conflict is compulsive. As the potential for conflict in life is virtually ubiquitous, the Nine’s inability to confront it forcefully and deal with it effectively, leaves the Nine at a serious disadvantage when it comes to living a full, satisfying and honest life. This deeply rooted tendency to avoid discord plays itself out both internally and in the realm of external action, but generally manifests most centrally in close personal relationships, as intimate relationships more than anything else tend to trigger core defenses.

    Many Nines are reasonably “successful” when it comes to their interactions with the world. They are frequently productive and often manage to rise through the ranks on the basis of their likability and reliability without having to engage too forcefully in direct competition. Thus, even in a capitalist economic system, many Nines manage to “succeed” while maintaining an attitude of forbearance and cooperation.

    Nines are not necessarily without ambition either, something easily attested to by the sheer number of leaders who have had a type Nine fixation. Some such Nines are able to take on leadership roles because they wear their fixations lightly or because they are buoyed by the ambitions of others to whom they are attached. Perhaps they enjoy the benefits of a fortunate upbringing or perhaps their work on themselves has borne fruit. Sometimes Nines who take on leadership roles seem to be the living embodiment of a solution that has been offered to us from the depths of the collective unconscious. They represent the only possible answer to the exigencies of a time in which the forward path cannot be determined by aggressive self-assertion or even by clarity of intellect. Abraham Lincoln, perhaps the greatest of America’s presidents, could modestly state “I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me.” Healthy Nines are in touch with their depths and are able to maintain their sense of self even in the face of the most forceful opposition or the most appalling conflict. Even as they rule, they serve those they lead.

    Less healthy Nines who take on leadership roles however, tend to adopt a strategy of “muffling” from awareness the likely negative consequences of their actions. Often they surround themselves with like-minded others who reinforce their sense of security and who serve as a buffer from all forms of dissent, thus enabling the Nine to remain insulated. Most of the unhealthy Nine’s insulating buffers against reality, however, are actually internal to the psyche. A deeply entranced Nine simply dissociates from whatever is unpleasant or unpalatable, from whatever disturbs his preferred view of the world. Such comfortably numb Nines simply fail to process any information which would be a cause of discomfort or disturbance. About this phenomenon, Naranjo comments, “Not wanting to see, not wanting to be in touch with one’s experience is something akin to cognitive laziness, an eclipse of the experiencer or inner witnessing in the person.” Unhealthy Nines, even as they take on roles of leadership, which would seem to involve self-assertion, are often actually deeply entrenched in a peculiar form of self-abnegation. Hence we encounter the portrait of the “nice guy,” the one who is affable to even the lowliest employee. He has a ready smile and a genial manner. He means no one any harm. But he has just busted the union, slashed the benefits to the school lunch program, or authorized the bombing of Iraq. He heads for his private sanctuary; he mindlessly kisses his wife; he watches the TV. He sleeps well. His conscience is clear. He never assumes any responsibility for the evil he has wrought.

    It is an almost universal rule that those leaders who rise to power in spite of, or even by virtue of their unconsciousness, have managed to do so because they have unwittingly embodied and reflected back the irresponsibility and lack of consciousness of those who brought them to power. About such rulers, it would be fair to say that, even as they rule, they follow those they lead.

    While the above may seem something of an exaggerated portrait, exaggerations often serve to illustrate key points. Virtually all Nines tend to see what they wish to see, to idealize those whom they love and to ignore whatever would disturb their comfort and peace of mind. These tendencies are not left behind until a Nine is truly healthy. The problem with this approach, of course, is that problems do not cease to exist, simply because the Nine ignores them. They have consequences, often deleterious one, both for the Nine and for those in the Nine’s life.

    While some Nines do assume positions of leadership, most Nines are not especially ambitious. They pay their dues to the world but essentially prefer to withdraw from it. They are “home bodies” who are generally devoted to their families, especially to their children. They enjoy their hobbies and appreciate some time to themselves. They generally value simplicity and cultivate the virtue of patience. They are frequently creative in a modest and unassuming way. They adopt an attitude of acceptance towards life. They don’t ask for too much; sometimes they ask for too little. At a very deep level, at a level which seldom breaks through to conscious awareness, most Nines simply feel that they don’t deserve too much. Nines would do well to develop a certain kind of healthy selfishness, as many of their difficulties turn on the fact that they are too selfless. (The opposite)

    As mentioned above, the Nine’s core issues tend to manifest most profoundly in the context of intimate relationships. It is here that the Nine’s need to avoid conflict bears its most obvious fruit. Many Nines seem to find it excruciatingly difficult to assert themselves against those they love, even when it comes to trivial matters. They would rather defer to their partner than assert their own preferences. Their preference is not very strong, they reason, whereas the partner is willing to put up a fight. It seems only reasonable to “give in.” In that manner, the Nine gets to avoid the unpleasantness of a conflict and vicariously enjoy the pleasure that the partner feels. Nines tend to merge with their partners and to empathetically take on the partner’s feelings and desires. This naturally makes it difficult for the Nine to cause hurt or frustration to those they love. On any individual occasion, this policy of appeasement might indeed be reasonable, but as a general policy it does not bode well for either the Nine or the partner of the Nine.

    The problems generated from this policy follow a few predictable patterns. The Nine’s partner might actually begin to resent the passivity of the Nine. It can be difficult to respect someone who will not defend boundaries, who will not take a well defined position. Other individuals gladly accept the willingness of the Nine to adopt their agenda and become overtly dominating and, in some cases, even abusive. (No, this is exactly what I will ward against with even my dying breaths) The Nine might even appear to accept such aggressions against them, although resentment invariably builds beneath the calm and placid surface. Nine’s have a difficult time accessing their anger, as anger is the emotion which, in its pure form, signals to us that one of our boundaries has been violated. As Nines tend to have a diffuse sense of their boundaries, they tend also to fall asleep to their anger. The anger exists however and will manifest itself, perhaps in passive-aggressive foot dragging or “checking out” from important engagements. For some Nines, unprocessed anger manifests itself through the development of psychosomatic illnesses. Other Nines experience instances in which pent up anger expresses itself inappropriately and unexpectedly with such a fury that it shocks those on the receiving end. All of these manifestations of anger are naturally a good deal more harmful to the Nine and to the Nine’s relationships than expressing it in a way which is appropriate to the needs of the situation. The ability of a Nine to acknowledge anger and recognize and deal with its causes is a pretty good measure of the Nine’s general level of health.

    The really crucial problem for type Nine individuals is that they tend to have an inadequate sense of self. This leads to a tendency on the part of Nines to both downplay their own significance and to borrow a sense of significance from others. There is, in fact, a sort of paradox at the heart of the type Nine fixation. At a largely subconscious level, Nines intuitively grasp that the constructed personality, the personality with which most of us identify, is not the true self; it is not who they are. This is, in fact, a very deep truth; the constructed personality is simply that – a construct through which consciousness operates, much of it built out of defenses and reactions to dangers which are no longer present; it is, in a sense, both a limitation and an obscuration. But the constructed personality also serves a necessary function; it gives the individual a base from which to operate, a sense of self, however ultimately flawed and partial. While the constructed self is not ultimately who we are, it is a necessary step towards the development of true individuality. Gurdjieff has this to say: “For inner growth, for work on oneself, a certain development of personality, as well as a certain strength of essence are required. An insufficiently developed personality means that…a man cannot begin to work on himself, he cannot begin to study himself, he cannot begin to struggle with his mechanical habits.”

    Without a well developed personality, without a firm sense of self and adequately defined boundaries, the Nine is left in a state of permeability to forces both outside the ego and to those subterranean forces that reside beneath it. Understanding this essential porousness of the ego of enneatype Nine is absolutely essential to an understanding of all of the basic manifestations of the Nine’s specific problems and challenges. It is the difficulty that type Nine individuals have in addressing this core issue which is called in the traditional enneagram, the vice of indolence. As already indicated, indolence does not here refer to laziness in the traditional sense, although it can manifest in that manner in some individuals, but to the lack of attention to the most important matter at hand, the lack of attention to what constitutes true work, i.e. the development of a solid sense of self from which the Nine can be truly effective in the world.

    According to the teachings of the traditional enneagram, the essential virtue of each type appears when the fixation or vice weakens. Oscar Ichazo, the father of the modern Enneagram, indicated that the virtue of type Nine was what he called “Holy Love.” Nines, even at average levels of health, tend to be kind, compassionate and tolerant individuals; their personalities dimly sense and partially embody the nature of their type specific virtue. True love does involve openness to others and permeability of ego boundaries; it does involve acceptance and forgiveness; it does involve a sense of the interconnectedness of all things, just as Nines have known all along. Like all of the fixations, the type Nine fixation can be viewed as a sort of failed short cut; it can be viewed as the personality’s flawed attempt to achieve the true virtue. As type Nine individuals learn to love and honor their own integrity, they are able to extend that love to others in a truly effective and beneficial manner. As they heal themselves, they heal their relationships with others and actively work towards healing the wounds of our ailing planet. Nines are sometimes called “the peacemakers” but they are not really worthy of that name until they leave behind the idea that peace is synonomous with the absence of conflict. Making peace requires the Nine to develop a truly active nature, the nature that Nines are able to manifest when they shed the passivity associated with their fixation.

    Nines with a One wing tend to be more cerebral and imaginative than those with an Eight wing. They typically withdraw under stress more than those with an Eight wing. They sometimes find it difficult to ground themselves. They tend to lose focus and can get lost in worlds of their imagination. Nines with an Eight wing are overall more grounded and assertive. They tend also to be more sociable than those with a One wing. Nines with a One wing are more theoretical; those with an Eight wing more practical.
    In that which is night to all things, therein the self-subjugated remains awake; but where all else is awake, that is night for the knower of the self.
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  10. #6200
    You are what you love themightyfetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESFJ View Post
    Thank you for this. This is really insightful and helps clear up some of the stereotypes, at least in my my mind.
    Yet I know, if I stepped aside
    Released the controls, you would open my eyes
    That somehow, all of this mess
    Is just my attempt to know the worth of my life
    .

    Mercury - Sleeping At Last

    3w2 // 6w7 // 9w1
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