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  1. #6021
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Ok. So that where/what I have seen on the forum that made me think CP6! Those types of reactions.

    But reading your post, it reads defensive. Yes. CP6's are defensive, but not from anger generally...from fear of potentially being hurt again. Small but important distinction.

    You seem pretty in touch with anger and your past as being a motivator for that defense. That is pretty honest. That doesn't feel organically CP6 to me. Hmmm. I am curious to see what @Z Buck McFate says as his 4 insights seem pretty spot on.
    all I seem is to care about injustices more as time goes on and especially when I can't seem to help people is more of my fear I'm not going to help the person the right way that somebody else can. For example, someone with bipolar or psychotic issues. I tend to avoid those people because not that I see them as monsters or anything but I think I'm wasting my time with them not knowing how to respond or the fear of being attacked. I'll be polite should they talk to me but even though I feel it is bad to ignore someone who is struggling with issues like that I won't response unless they do and it will be very short.

    One thing though generally is that I don't tend to ignore people even if I feel a little contempt for them because I know all too well how it is to be ostracized and sometimes the ostracized ostracize me because I speak like a psychologist and not necessarily like a counselor or a friend to someone it's just very habit forming that way and I'm learning to being more personal with others.
    F O R E V E R

    When it matters, everyone's the same.

    A heart explodes every second on the street
    A sister, a daughter, a lover
    Who hopes they're not forgotten
    You crossed the line and committed a crime
    It was there from the start, from the start
    Oceans of empathy
    And now this is history

  2. #6022
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    @Z Buck McFate and @MDP2525

    So this anger for external mishappenings is relatively very new to my persona. As a kid my anger never really went further than being directly mistreated but even then again it had to constant and constant and constant teasing from other people to get me truly angry that I will actually retaliate physically back after I've been physically hurt so much.

    When I grew a little older and older although very slow I learned to get angry quicker so people will then see that I am not someone to mess with.

    So these whole like anger issues I may have had with forum members still has to do something with me, I won't be angry over news things that has nothing to do with my experience I mean don't get me wrong it probably sucks and a lot of things aren't happening well on that side of the world but it is out of my control and I have no basis to argue anyway.
    (To be clear, I'm not part of the "I think you're e6" current here, I don't have enough experience of you to really have much opinion- any opinions I'm expressing here are about NFJs, e6s, and NFJ/e6s, without really intending to inadvertently express any connection between those concepts and you.)

    It isn't entirely about anger or indignance, that's just one way it manifests. E6s are just more concerned with the space in-between people than the isolated space inside themselves, was my whole point with that comparison. This is not to say e4 is more "self-aware"- I mean, in a sense they are, but not in a mindful way, "self absorbed" could just as easily be applied- it's just that the unconscious is naturally more preoccupied with the 'self' than relationships to others. When super stressed out, it's my understanding that e4 will question self-worth (either consciously or unconsciously) while e6 will question its connections to others. I think.

    But when someone argues of a group I'm from and I care about. That is an important distinction to make, it has to be a group I care about so if I say America. That's a good one not to tease, now yes there have been plenty Americans in my local area who have wronged me and I certainly don't like but I don't use that as basis to judge ALL American people especially since there are certainly "good" ones out there. I just saw rather idiotic because Americans are not only white pre colonial people. There are several races here. And you're kind of calling them all stupid for coming to join a common land. I just find my instantaneous anger from your sheer ignorance and relying on little selfish experience that you haven't ever bothered to look outside yourself.
    Okay, I was ambivalent, but this actually sounds pretty gosh darn 6 to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I am curious to see what @Z Buck McFate says as his her 4 insights seem pretty spot on.
    (Her. )
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari
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  3. #6023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    (To be clear, I'm not part of the "I think you're e6" current here, I don't have enough experience of you to really have much opinion- any opinions I'm expressing here are about NFJs, e6s, and NFJ/e6s, without really intending to inadvertently express any connection between those concepts and you.)

    It isn't entirely about anger or indignance, that's just one way it manifests. E6s are just more concerned with the space in-between people than the isolated space inside themselves, was my whole point with that comparison. This is not to say e4 is more "self-aware"- I mean, in a sense they are, but not in a mindful way, "self absorbed" could just as easily be applied- it's just that the unconscious is naturally more preoccupied with the 'self' than relationships to others. When super stressed out, it's my understanding that e4 will question self-worth (either consciously or unconsciously) while e6 will question its connections to others. I think.



    Okay, I was ambivalent, but this actually sounds pretty gosh darn 6 to me.



    (Her. )
    Shouldn't the e6 progress by caring about the empty void inside themselves?

    The whole 4 thing what you said before sounds pretty irrational be upset about internal things? I'm not sure I understand. I mean I do and perhaps still when self hatred even if reality doesn't match up to what I'm thinking about it. But

    Is a 4 angry at herself for envy? Idk, I mean I thought I was a 6w5 for the short time but I stopped thinking I was one because the cure for it to become healthy just didn't work for me. I thought that focusing on my anxiety and listening to it would make it go away but then I received stronger guilt because after I was so personal to my anxiety my guilt slowly builded over time I was having a lot of stomach problems and yeah. Lol maybe it's a 6 lash back? So in a sense if I am just aware of anxiety it'll go away when the situation itself goes away. But when I'm like ok anxiety me and you are just going to experience that feeling and stick on, it's like my body starts to feel pain and it's like why are you trying to be anxiety's friend it's as if you want to continue to be anxious and I'm like so anxiety needs to show me something idk about myself and then my stomach and gut simmers with pain.

    I see anxiety as a way to balance my social interactions although as much as I hate the feeling. It keeps me from feeling guilt which is a harder emotion to face. So that does sound un4ish? But what about 9? Although once I was with my ISFP 9 acquaintance again I was like nope definitely not a 9 he's too complacent.
    F O R E V E R

    When it matters, everyone's the same.

    A heart explodes every second on the street
    A sister, a daughter, a lover
    Who hopes they're not forgotten
    You crossed the line and committed a crime
    It was there from the start, from the start
    Oceans of empathy
    And now this is history
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  4. #6024
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    Okay, I got a little caried away last night, and was overtired and not in the best of moods/places mentally. I wasn't overly processing what you had to say and I do apologize on my behalf. I don't have the best memory, but I did read over 'The Wisdom Of The Enneagram Seven' thread again:

    We all get overly-tired and fall into funks that may cause us to behave in ways that do not represent who we are or would like to be - I get that. And have a great deal of patience in that regard. But that's not the issue here. The issue is you are relentlessly demanding from members...as if the sole purpose of our participation here is to serve you...something we so obviously cannot provide.

    My message to you yesterday couldn't have been more uncharacteristically clear had I tried. "My opinion of your type has not changed and here's another reason why." <-Whether or not the recipient of that kind of message is in a good mood or bad...whether they are awake or strung-out.... I think most people know that all that is required there is the making of a mental note and possibly a "thanks for the info".

    Now you on the other hand went to great lengths to twist, discredit and shut-down what could be likened to a simple tick-mark underneath a type you, yourself, claim to identify with. And I don't give a shit that you were in a foul mood. Why? Because this is what you do regardless. Still, last night you took it to the level of acting like you have no clue as to who I am...attempting to make it seem like that was the first time I have ever typed you using a couple of points you warped beyond recognition...and then you insult me as if my system of typing is flawed as if this is fucking rocket science and I don't know exactly who you are?

    There's more going on here than a bad night. And there's more going on here than can be addressed with personality theory. Even if we got you accurately typed...and we won't because you'll never be satisfied...but even if we did...nothing would change for you. Whatever is causing you to do *this* will not be alleviated in any way by the MBTI.

    Let me end by emphasizing one more time that this isn't rocket science. In fact, as Sinclair mentioned...it isn't science at all. But this isn't a difficult thing to do once you have a basic understanding of whatever system you're working with. And why were these systems created? Because we don't have time to get to know everyone intimately...we don't have time to gain a grasp of their big picture or have one-on-ones with all the people that cross our path. To this day the primary use of the MBTI is to know and appropriately accommodate people you don't know. We don't need to know your soul to do what we do here. <-And if that's what you're looking for then you need to go someplace else.

    Likewise, if you struggled with knowing your type when in a more cheerful state...? Depression will undoubtedly cause you to mistype (if you were truly interested in being typed that is.)

    Okay, I admit that I have agreed with 7 and Pe-Dom in the past, but the more I research typology, the more I seem inclined to agree with 8, and maybe not Pe-Dom. Yeah, 7 is still in my tritype, but I do tend to resonate with the 8 descriptions more in general, although that could also be down to my sx first instinct.

    Another reason I think I may be doubting Pe-Dom is because I am pretty depressed at the moment. I have been focusing on assignments, mixtapes, novels etc. as of late and have barely been socializing. Although the focus has been on my own projects, I don't find that to be overly taxing, but I do find the depression to be.

    In real life, I do an amazing job hiding it. No-one would know that a single thing is wrong with me, and I don't like talking about it because that makes me vulnerable. I guess these things I mentioned above are part of my coping strategies.

    Another thing I would like to bring into account is the fact that I also resonate heavily with Te, in both the descriptional and personal sense, but I really don't relate to Fi at all in both senses. Again, that could be my Ti being overactive but people have said that they have seen Inferior Fi within me, and Te Dominance in the past. But I have also gotten ENFJ as my suggested type before, with Inferior Ti.

    I do resonate with ESTP, ENFJ and ENTJ the most out of all the types. I have ruled out ESFP due to the above statements.
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور
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  5. #6025
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Shouldn't the e6 progress by caring about the empty void inside themselves?

    The whole 4 thing what you said before sounds pretty irrational be upset about internal things? I'm not sure I understand. I mean I do and perhaps still when self hatred even if reality doesn't match up to what I'm thinking about it. But

    Is a 4 angry at herself for envy? Idk, I mean I thought I was a 6w5 for the short time but I stopped thinking I was one because the cure for it to become healthy just didn't work for me. I thought that focusing on my anxiety and listening to it would make it go away but then I received stronger guilt because after I was so personal to my anxiety my guilt slowly builded over time I was having a lot of stomach problems and yeah. Lol maybe it's a 6 lash back? So in a sense if I am just aware of anxiety it'll go away when the situation itself goes away. But when I'm like ok anxiety me and you are just going to experience that feeling and stick on, it's like my body starts to feel pain and it's like why are you trying to be anxiety's friend it's as if you want to continue to be anxious and I'm like so anxiety needs to show me something idk about myself and then my stomach and gut simmers with pain.

    I see anxiety as a way to balance my social interactions although as much as I hate the feeling. It keeps me from feeling guilt which is a harder emotion to face. So that does sound un4ish? But what about 9? Although once I was with my ISFP 9 acquaintance again I was like nope definitely not a 9 he's too complacent.
    I really don't know how to expound on what I was getting at, or how to answer these^.

    Soon after I posted the last thing, I realized that what I posted is a lot like what people often say about the Fi/Fe difference- although I actually do see it as applying to e4/e6 too, in its own way. I have an INFJ 4w5 friend (probably my closest friend) and an INFP 6w5 friend- both have been irl friends for over 10 years. I'd say the INFJ is actually far more at the mercy of her own emotions (to sorta drown in them, get overwhelmed by them) than the INFP friend is, likely because of the enneagram difference.

    Say for example they parked their car on some residential street, and returned to it a couple hours later to find someone had sideswiped it without leaving a note. My INFJ friend might have some big "why has this happened to me?! do I somehow deserve this?!" reaction- although she wouldn't actually say these things, she'd be overwhelmed on the inside with the vague impression that this has happened because there's something wrong with her. (If someone were to make the joke, "I bet this happened because there's something wrong with you"- she'd be able to laugh at how ridiculous that reasoning is, and yet deep down inside it still somehow feels a little bit true.) My INFP friend, on the other hand, would just get really angry and disheartened that someone would do something so shitty.

    I don't know if that's helpful at all, but I don't know how else to explain it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari
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  6. #6026
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    @Frosty

    INTP 9w1
    لا تستطيع كسر المكسور
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  7. #6027
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    @Starry: do you think I am accurately typed? To many, I come off socially introverted and fairly businesslike...esp.to other F types. Lol

  8. #6028

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    Quote Originally Posted by /DG/ View Post
    @Rico - If you know you relate to ENTJ the most, then why do you keep bothering to ask about your type? Most people that don't know their type don't have a singular type they relate to the most (myself included).

    Edit: Maybe you will like this link though...

    When does an ESTP look like an ENTJ? When does an ENTJ look like an ESTP?

    Edit 2: Wait I think I misread you. Sorry, I'm not reading very carefully. Here is another link for you...

    When does an ENFJ look like an ESTJ, ESTP, or ENTJ?
    Yes, thank you for the links. I will read them soon =)

    Quote Originally Posted by themightyfetus View Post
    I view type threads as restaurants, the questioner as the costumer, and forum members who answer the questions as employees.

    If you go to the restaurant and ask for food, you can send it back to the kitchen if it's poor quality. But then, if you keep sending everything back, there's nothing the chef can do. So you move restaurants and keep on doing the same thing, over and over, never eating any food. Pretty soon, restaurants will know your name. They'll know that all you do is send back food, so they won't take you seriously.

    @Rico I don't mean to be harsh. I'm trying to be kind about this, but you're being disrespectful to the many people who have offered their opinions to you. If you can't accept answers, stop asking. Something I was taught back in my kindergarten ballet class: you get what you get and you don't get upset. So do that. If you want more answers, look through your old type-me threads. You have plenty of information at your disposal.

    Like @Starry said, nobody is getting paid to do this. It's on our own time. So please be respectful enough to consider what you're given. Insights are gifts. Please treat them as such. Because to be honest, it's becoming mighty irritating.
    Thank you, and I will.

    Last night, I went overboard and was not thinking clearly.

    I was a dickhead, and I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    We all get overly-tired and fall into funks that may cause us to behave in ways that do not represent who we are or would like to be - I get that. And have a great deal of patience in that regard. But that's not the issue here. The issue is you are relentlessly demanding from members...as if the sole purpose of our participation here is to serve you...something we so obviously cannot provide.

    My message to you yesterday couldn't have been more uncharacteristically clear had I tried. "My opinion of your type has not changed and here's another reason why." <-Whether or not the recipient of that kind of message is in a good mood or bad...whether they are awake or strung-out.... I think most people know that all that is required there is the making of a mental note and possibly a "thanks for the info".

    Now you on the other hand went to great lengths to twist, discredit and shut-down what could be likened to a simple tick-mark underneath a type you, yourself, claim to identify with. And I don't give a shit that you were in a foul mood. Why? Because this is what you do regardless. Still, last night you took it to the level of acting like you have no clue as to who I am...attempting to make it seem like that was the first time I have ever typed you using a couple of points you warped beyond recognition...and then you insult me as if my system of typing is flawed as if this is fucking rocket science and I don't know exactly who you are?

    There's more going on here than a bad night. And there's more going on here than can be addressed with personality theory. Even if we got you accurately typed...and we won't because you'll never be satisfied...but even if we did...nothing would change for you. Whatever is causing you to do *this* will not be alleviated in any way by the MBTI.

    Let me end by emphasizing one more time that this isn't rocket science. In fact, as Sinclair mentioned...it isn't science at all. But this isn't a difficult thing to do once you have a basic understanding of whatever system you're working with. And why were these systems created? Because we don't have time to get to know everyone intimately...we don't have time to gain a grasp of their big picture or have one-on-ones with all the people that cross our path. To this day the primary use of the MBTI is to know and appropriately accommodate people you don't know. We don't need to know your soul to do what we do here. <-And if that's what you're looking for then you need to go someplace else.

    Likewise, if you struggled with knowing your type when in a more cheerful state...? Depression will undoubtedly cause you to mistype (if you were truly interested in being typed that is.)
    My intentions weren't to come across as demanding, but it seems like I have. I am sorry if I was disrespectful. It's not the side of me I wanted to show you, or how I want to the represented on the forums. I'm not all that bad, really.

    I've just.. been in a bad rut.. and I don't know what possessed me to act the way I done yesterday.
    I clearly wasn't thinking my responses through clear enough.
    I feel bad for making you also feel like shit. It wasn't my intentions at all.

    Yeah, I have heard that depression causes people to mis-type. I've also read the 'Was That Really Me?' book by Neiomi Quenk, and resonate a lot with Inferior Feeling (Fe and Fi), but also with some of the Inferior Ti points. This is one of the main reasons I am confused with my type is because a lot of people tend to say that finding your Inferior is the best way to find out your dominant function.

    EDIT: Never mind, thank you for your opinion. Can we put the past in the past now?
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  9. #6029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Say for example they parked their car on some residential street, and returned to it a couple hours later to find someone had sideswiped it without leaving a note. My INFJ friend might have some big "why has this happened to me?! do I somehow deserve this?!" reaction- although she wouldn't actually say these things, she'd be overwhelmed on the inside with the vague impression that this has happened because there's something wrong with her. (If someone were to make the joke, "I bet this happened because there's something wrong with you"- she'd be able to laugh at how ridiculous that reasoning is, and yet deep down inside it still somehow feels a little bit true.)
    When people think of envy, they think of someone who's constantly comparing themselves to others... there is an over focus on others... but it's actually more self-interested, imo. The priority isn't in other people. They are focused on their own misfortunes or deficiencies. Other people are just an excuse, afterthought, catalyst, for the 4 to do their fixation. I think this was a good example... subtle.
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  10. #6030
    ∫ø¬¡†å®¥ ∫øµ¬ Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I really don't know how to expound on what I was getting at, or how to answer these^.

    Soon after I posted the last thing, I realized that what I posted is a lot like what people often say about the Fi/Fe difference- although I actually do see it as applying to e4/e6 too, in its own way. I have an INFJ 4w5 friend (probably my closest friend) and an INFP 6w5 friend- both have been irl friends for over 10 years. I'd say the INFJ is actually far more at the mercy of her own emotions (to sorta drown in them, get overwhelmed by them) than the INFP friend is, likely because of the enneagram difference.

    Say for example they parked their car on some residential street, and returned to it a couple hours later to find someone had sideswiped it without leaving a note. My INFJ friend might have some big "why has this happened to me?! do I somehow deserve this?!" reaction- although she wouldn't actually say these things, she'd be overwhelmed on the inside with the vague impression that this has happened because there's something wrong with her. (If someone were to make the joke, "I bet this happened because there's something wrong with you"- she'd be able to laugh at how ridiculous that reasoning is, and yet deep down inside it still somehow feels a little bit true.) My INFP friend, on the other hand, would just get really angry and disheartened that someone would do something so shitty.

    I don't know if that's helpful at all, but I don't know how else to explain it.
    I think I get it now. I read this and the misidentifications between 4 and 6.

    Definitely a 4 is where me that I always feel magically punished for who I am. And it's internal that's for sure. I'm highly sensitive too where I told my therapist that if somehow I did something where anyone, and I mean anyone off I felt like a monster who needed to be punished severely. Guilt would overwhelm me more than natural person for making a mistake like a bad flirt. I'd hide in my car and clench the seat. Bury my head in my arms. Whenever I was punished I would convince myself it was just because of the sin I have caused someone else. I was naturally born to be a waste. These are all extremely irrational thoughts and responses. Whenever I would have too much caffeine or feel tired in the classroom it's pretty much this is my fate. This is it. I have sometimes thought of suicide because I have nothing left to offer the world, not even feel comfortable in it.

    6 is all about pleasing the authority. Those people disgust me when it becomes too excessive. Like Albert Camus said those who respect their captors are fools or something along those lines. And 6's naturally click with others. I have no friends irl. Virtually none. This is the place where I can sort of be myself, but even starting here felt tough.

    4's have always felt off from the crowd and I am trying to be friends with an INFP 2 and she's always like stop putting yourself down, you don't need to feel like your actions have to have a visible affect for your worth to be there. She's like nothing you're saying offends me.

    So thanks it really did help.

    There's also that melancholic saying: The saddest people always smile.
    F O R E V E R

    When it matters, everyone's the same.

    A heart explodes every second on the street
    A sister, a daughter, a lover
    Who hopes they're not forgotten
    You crossed the line and committed a crime
    It was there from the start, from the start
    Oceans of empathy
    And now this is history

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