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  1. #4861
    TypologyBentral.Bom chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    As long as I don't contribute to the misunderstanding I'm good. I probably seem too SFP to cause confusion anyway.
    Omg that smiley is bringing me back to happier times.

  2. #4862
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    @Starry That was great to read. I didn't read Psychological types as a whole, only the part where he explains extraversion/introversion and the functions, so you're right about that. If I had red the whole thing I would really question my ENFPness now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    What do you fear Stephano? Aside from 'the basics' that all humans fear...what would be the worst thing to have happen in your world.
    Well, that is hard to answer. I think I would kill myself if I had to spend my whole life in an average job. I want to become a composer someday and from what I have heard it is pretty hard to get into the business. I probably won't go to university, but I will take a schooling for audio engineering.

    I remember that you once misidentified yourself as a 4, right? I would really like to know now how you found out that you are an actual 7. From what I have grasped from the descriptions the difference is big.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  3. #4863
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The heart triad is not the emotional third of the enneagram, it is the part of the enneagram motivated by shame.

    Type 2s do not always have to be emotional, though the stereotype suggests it. Usually they are extremely prideful in their generosity and kindness to others, often offering as much help as possible but at the same time rejecting any foreign help. "I'm not the one with the problems, you are."

    Type 3s often suppress their emotions easily and readily, preferring to focus on the task at hand rather than disseminate pointless emotions. They are motivated by shame to achieve so that they won't be looked down upon.

    Type 4 is the only one that actually fits the emotional status of the heart triad, as 4s plunge themselves into their own emotions to figure out who they are so that they can find their identity and reach self-actualization.

    By the way, ENxP 4s exist and they are very interesting people, ENxP is generally considered the most introverted extrovert.

    Though the ENTP 4 is considered the rarest combination with 4 in it.
    No.... the identity seeking for 4 is over-emphasized. 4s envy the inherent significance others have that they feel they are missing. Emotions signify stuff - they add weight. So feeling intensely makes everything, well, feel more significant. This is substituted for when there is lack of real meaning, and is often done with fantasy when real life feels dull & the 4 feels insignificant. It's not an identity, but significance being sought. All image types seek to create an identity which helps them cope with shame. 2s have one of being loving or desirable, having a lot to give. 3s have one of being impressive, successful, capable. 4s have one of being unusual, refined, elite. Those are generalizations, but the identity sought connects to the source of shame for each, which you note for 2s & 3s, but miss the shame motivating the 4. The 4 feels missing of something others have, so they try to turn the "different" aspect into something which fills what they are missing - that individual significance.

    This is where the 4 drama lies - not in a show, but in amplifying feelings to make things seem more significant, including their experience of themselves (I'm not boring; I feel intensely).

    IMO, lots of 7s seem very emotional & intensely feeling. I think they amplify it for different reasons - they seem to fear an inner void, facing silence, etc. If it's too quiet, then maybe the deeper anxieties surface. I can relate to that a bit as a 4, as far as feeling a void, but it's more the idea of having no notable personality that shames me. I'll think there's nothing there that would mean anything to anyone, and the emotion & fantasy is just kind of a comfort for the real life I may never have.
    "Charlotte sometimes dreams a wall around herself. But it's always with love - So much love it looks like everything else. Charlotte Sometimes - So far away, glass sealed and pretty." - The Cure

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #4864
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No.... the identity seeking for 4 is over-emphasized. 4s envy the inherent significance others have that they feel they are missing. Emotions signify stuff - they add weight. So feeling intensely makes everything, well, feel more significant. This is substituted for when there is lack of real meaning, and is often done with fantasy when real life feels dull & the 4 feels insignificant. It's not an identity, but significance being sought. All image types seek to create an identity which helps them cope with shame. 2s have one of being loving or desirable, having a lot to give. 3s have one of being impressive, successful, capable. 4s have one of being unusual, refined, elite. Those are generalizations, but the identity sought connects to the source of shame for each, which you note for 2s & 3s, but miss the shame motivating the 4. The 4 feels missing of something others have, so they try to turn the "different" aspect into something which fills what they are missing - that individual significance.

    This is where the 4 drama lies - not in a show, but in amplifying feelings to make things seem more significant, including their experience of themselves (I'm not boring; I feel intensely).

    IMO, lots of 7s seem very emotional & intensely feeling. I think they amplify it for different reasons - they seem to fear an inner void, facing silence, etc. If it's too quiet, then maybe the deeper anxieties surface. I can relate to that a bit as a 4, as far as feeling a void, but it's more the idea of having no notable personality that shames me. I'll think there's nothing there that would mean anything to anyone, and the emotion & fantasy is just kind of a comfort for the real life I may never have.
    I can actually relate to your description of 4s (with the exception of looking to emotion for a sense of fulfillment, which is a big one; it's usually just fantasy/escapism for me), but I guess what should be emphasized when considering being an Enneagram 4 is that this should be a lifelong fixation, and not just something that you're going through for the time being.

  5. #4865
    Riva
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    E4s oh gosh!

  6. #4866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    @Starry

    It might also be notable to point out that self-preservation 7s are counter-gluttony (much like the sexual 6s counterphobia), meaning that they value stoicism and self-control over absorbing experiences. Sp 7s have a stronger connection to their integration point, 5.
    Hey Alea_iacta_est, ^I have read this. I also mistyped myself as a sp/sx e7 for a brief while because of that description haha. I mean, I have no idea what others see in me but...I identify with being a survivalist, a theoretician, a poet, a scientist...(basically a visionary and a sage ) Sooooooo...with all of what I had read...coming-out as a 7 was challenging enough for me. My poor ego just didn't have what was needed at the time to simultaneously sign-up for the much touted e7 sx image of the Rock Star omfg...sorry Ozzy Osborne.

    I don't know an e7 sp. I will say though that when I put these two together (type & variant) 'counter-gluttony' isn't the first thing that enters my mind. Gluttony-gluttony or gluttony in its purest and most universally recognized form...is more like it. Like an ESTP 7w8 King Henry the VIII haha. But yes, I am familiar with this sp 7 description Thanks so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    As long as I don't contribute to the misunderstanding I'm good. I probably seem too SFP to cause confusion anyway.
    Oh god no. er, well I don't know maybe...((have you written any popular e7 descriptions lately? be honest Chanaynay.)) If you had been around when I was attempting to figure out my e-type...you would have provided me a reason to rule e7 in...not out. I see and understand what you are doing haha. I mean, I don't know how much you want me to embarrass you here...but I see how deeply you feel and think and care and love...

    There are people that are constantly selling an image of depth and compassion <-and yet how often it is with these people that all I'll be hit with is narcissism. You, like many 7s, do some kind of opposite thing haha...and I tell you nothing makes me more proud to be an ENFP e7 than this. You put yourself out there...you laugh at yourself...you draw people in and remind everyone not to take things too seriously...that there is enjoyment to be had all around us. You don't tell me how much you give...you don't make false displays of giving. You hide how much you give...effortlessly. <-So perhaps you do contribute to the misunderstanding. And I wouldn't want it any other way


    @Stephano

    I will come back to you soon here...
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  7. #4867
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    @Starry
    It might also be notable to point out that self-preservation 7s are counter-gluttony (much like the sexual 6s counterphobia), meaning that they value stoicism and self-control over absorbing experiences. Sp 7s have a stronger connection to their integration point, 5.
    nooo
    self preservation 7s are the most gluttonous of the 7s. they are ambitious, comfort seeking, usually somewhat ruthless and often fit the shrewd businessman archetype nicely. (think Hugh Hefner, Steve Jobs or Scarlett O'hara)
    it is the Social 7 who is the counter-glutton of the enneagram. this is the community oriented 7 who is willing to make great sacrifices for his friends and has the strongest connection to the superego of the 7s.

    @Starry
    glad you decided against self preservation dom. you don't come off as cold or ambitious as an Sp 7
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  8. #4868
    Biertrinker entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    nooo
    self preservation 7s are the most gluttonous of the 7s. they are ambitious, comfort seeking, usually somewhat ruthless and often fit the shrewd businessman archetype nicely.
    Ouh yeah

  9. #4869
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    nooo
    self preservation 7s are the most gluttonous of the 7s. they are ambitious, comfort seeking, usually somewhat ruthless and often fit the shrewd businessman archetype nicely. (think Hugh Hefner, Steve Jobs or Scarlett O'hara)
    it is the Social 7 who is the counter-glutton of the enneagram. this is the community oriented 7 who is willing to make great sacrifices for his friends and has the strongest connection to the superego of the 7s.

    @Starry
    glad you decided against self preservation dom. you don't come off as cold or ambitious as an Sp 7
    That's more akin to avarice. Gluttony in the 7 is directed toward doing everything imaginable in the real world. Sp 7s hang back more and act more like 5s. Gluttony does not have a negative connotation here, it simply means wanting to do everything (in the case of the 7s). You are comparing it to miserly, which is closer to the 5s fixation and the 7s integration point.

    Counter-Gluttony 7: Hang back, plan more long term, act more decisively, much more organized. Medium Energy
    Regular 7: Participate, plan more short term, act more in-the-moment and a bit impulsively, fairly disorganized. High Energy.

  10. #4870
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it is the Social 7 who is the counter-glutton of the enneagram. this is the community oriented 7 who is willing to make great sacrifices for his friends and has the strongest connection to the superego of the 7s.
    Ouh yeah
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