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  1. #4551
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatlander View Post
    Actually it's one place where I'd point out Fe over Ne. Fe is about judging what is the relation between elements of the external world, in an objective context that people agree on. Ne looks like it's about viewing all the possible endpoints of what is there, hence the objectivity of it would be in the neutrality between views, and Ji/Je are needed to choose between them.
    But there's a very big difference in terms of Fe gauging relationships versus Ne observing connections, if you see what I mean. Ne points and says there are connections here, and here, and here, and here. Fe looks at the nature of relationships, which is a very different beast. kyuuei is talking about how everything is interrelated, but she's not talking about the nature of relationships in terms of personal significance and value weight; she has simply argued that everything is connected whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. She's observing, not valuing, and that is Pe, not Je.

    No, I'd just point to frustration for it - 1 is a frustration type, and the connection to 7 might lend it a secret desire for chaos.
    I don't know how else to describe how I recognize it as potentially Fi besides to say that I empathize and understand her wording in terms of it being an inner welling-up of emotion. It's also accompanied by an indicator phrase ("if I had it my way") which acknowledges that those are intrapersonal feelings. I can additionally see why you would say frustration type, but it's also a symptom of strong N that we see how things ideally could be and lament that they are not so.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT
    Just want to point out that this seems to be a really strong Si assessment with Ne through Si along with feeling judgement and I would generally not expect to see this kind of analysis/perspective in an Ne dominant type whose inferior is Si, as it is this very perspective they try to avoid.
    Interesting. Why do you see it as Si? I feel like it is a very NeFi-y loosey goosey overall impression of internal congruence.

  2. #4552
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Interesting. Why do you see it as Si? I feel like it is a very NeFi-y loosey goosey overall impression of internal congruence.
    It's Si because you build your explanation on strong sense impressions. You don't use the sense impression as conceptual starting point but you are very much contained by the subject and you describe this subject in various ways pertaining to your previous sense experiences. You for instance describe her avatar as "practical" and "earthy". That's not Ne. Ne would look for conceptual representations of the avatar e.g. kyueei's avatar reminds me of an anime character from a JRPG such as Final Fantasy. Do you see the difference? What I described is more "bouncy" in that I use the impression of the avatar as a starting point to explore other ideas related to that concept e.g. anime characters, JRPGs and Final Fantasy. I'm not describing the avatar as much as I am describing what conceptual ideas it represents.

    In fact I'd argue that the feeling judgement also seems to fall better in line with Fe too than Fi. It seems to be oriented towards the objective world. Did you ever consider ISFJ or ESFJ as potential types?

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  3. #4553
    Fair and Square Flatlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    But there's a very big difference in terms of Fe gauging relationships versus Ne observing connections, if you see what I mean. Ne points and says there are connections here, and here, and here, and here. Fe looks at the nature of relationships, which is a very different beast. kyuuei is talking about how everything is interrelated, but she's not talking about the nature of relationships in terms of personal significance and value weight; she has simply argued that everything is connected whether one chooses to acknowledge it or not. She's observing, not valuing, and that is Pe, not Je.
    Okay, Fe is still an extraverted type. The evaluation through Fe isn't personal at all - it views how the external world relates as an entity within itself and appeals to a common context. Saying that the world is all connected, especially in this context, is a viewpoint colored by F, and probably Fe, because then the speaker can go on to point out how it's related in a way that is designed to win an argument because the opponent(s) couldn't possibly fail to see it - so the viewpoint is there. She does go on to list specifics of the world's constructs, which only serves to confirm my idea, and the overall flavor has it backed by S(i) in terms of it being experience-based.

    As for what Ne provides, it just isn't systemizing. Adjudicating relation is a form of systemizing. Ne projects its ideas of how something could change from what exists, what it could change into, and it can also do this with the internalized experience to recognize potential. Ne dominants in conversation often seem to ramble because they're seeing a lot of potential. Ne Fi in my experience produces tangents that are often more personal than Ne Ti, but they're still tangents.

    I don't know how else to describe how I recognize it as potentially Fi besides to say that I empathize and understand her wording in terms of it being an inner welling-up of emotion. It's also accompanied by an indicator phrase ("if I had it my way") which acknowledges that those are intrapersonal feelings. I can additionally see why you would say frustration type, but it's also a symptom of strong N that we see how things ideally could be and lament that they are not so.
    Intrapersonal feelings can exist in the Fe or Fi user. A FJ might feel quite personally even about the impersonal Fe constructs they wish to support or deny.

    Also I don't attribute ideals, or more generally, imagination, to any specific function - anyone can have them based on any reasoning they can come up with.
    Thinking must serve the thinker.

  4. #4554
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    I think that @greenfairy is definitely mistyped. She just wreaks of NF. Plus, all of the conclusions that she comes to are so feeling based it's ridiculous. She never does the classic INTP move of questioning other's logic ever.

  5. #4555
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I think that @greenfairy is definitely mistyped. She just wreaks of NF. Plus, all of the conclusions that she comes to are so feeling based it's ridiculous. She never does the classic INTP move of questioning other's logic ever.
    Because I never argue and ask for explanations? Right. Evidently you haven't been on many of my threads.

    See, I'm questioning your logic right now.

  6. #4556
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Because I never argue and ask for explanations? Right. Evidently you haven't been on many of my threads.

    See, I'm questioning your logic right now.
    Please show me examples where you have done this. I have never seen you do this once.

  7. #4557
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Please show me examples where you have done this. I have never seen you do this once.
    I think the burden of proof is on you my friend. If it's not obvious you're not paying attention. Unless you have a different definition of "questioning others' logic" than I do.

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think the burden of proof is on you my friend. If it's not obvious you're not paying attention. Unless you have a different definition of "questioning others' logic" than I do.
    Tell you what. I'm very busy with college classes right now, but I'm gonna look through your threads and give you examples of what I mean when I finally get the time. Give me a little bit, cuz this is gonna take a lot of time to compose.

  9. #4559
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    I'm going to have to go with The Great One on this; greenfairy is a clear case for INFx. She places much more emphasis on subjective values and human inspiration, but I don't see any constructive map of creation like an NT or a Ti-dom might do when studying cosmology. The odd magical beliefs thing could be Ti-dom and NT or NF, where the T would focus on analysis and accomplishment, whereas the F would focus on what feels right inside. There could be a mix of the 2, but it seems like one should be more strongly preferred.

    Greenfairy strikes me as much more of a spiritualist (NF) than a metaphysician (NT).

  10. #4560
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    I'm going to have to go with The Great One on this; greenfairy is a clear case for INFx. She places much more emphasis on subjective values and human inspiration, but I don't see any constructive map of creation like an NT or a Ti-dom might do when studying cosmology. The odd magical beliefs thing could be Ti-dom and NT or NF, where the T would focus on analysis and accomplishment, whereas the F would focus on what feels right inside. There could be a mix of the 2, but it seems like one should be more strongly preferred.

    Greenfairy strikes me as much more of a spiritualist (NF) than a metaphysician (NT).
    Well that's interesting because I intend to be a metaphysician as a career. As in go to grad school, get a PhD in philosophy, and study metaphysics. I'm writing a paper on metaphysics right now in fact.

    What makes you think such a "map of creation" would be visible to other people? Every place I've read about NTP's specifically says they have a hard time communicating their thoughts to other people.

    Actually I think my internal framework is so heavily influenced by intuition it would be nearly impossible to do so without some sort of a doctoral thesis.

    So what's wrong with me just being a combination of two (or three) types? Is that so unlikely? INFJ+XNTP would very easily merge into one I think. I still say there's very little difference between INFJ with high Ti and Ne and INTP with high Ni and Fe. I don't think I'm simply in a loop, as that is listed in conjunction with disorders. In fact I find I'm far more functional when I use my T functions with feeling as secondary. In the times where I have emotions and make feeling judgments I need to heavily moderate them with thinking or they tend to lead me to places which are disconnected with reality. So even if I'm not XNTP, behaving like one is in my best interest at least half the time.

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